Catholics' Fruit of Christianity

[Heidi]

Again, can anyone here answer what Jesus means when he said; "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit"? If so, then the arguments here will be answered.

Is this inclusive to the Catholic church only? Can it not apply to other sects and cults?

Verses 17, 18
Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

This teaching pertains primarily to the identification of false teachers whose true character is inevitably exposed by the results of their efforts. However cloaked with specious piety, however influential through personal charm, however marked by brilliant intellect or high educational attainment, or however distinguished in any other manner, false teachers are not to be trusted above the word of Christ. The teacher that divides and scatters the flock must be rejected. Evil fruits, or results, constitute certain and unmistakable identification with the "wolves" Jesus mentioned here.

Hatred is a fruit of the devil no matter how you dress it up. If you insist on bashing the Catholic faith, do so in a biblical manner that produces the fruits of the spirit, not the flesh. nuff said...

Sorry but you are in error. Jesus said; "Hate what is evil, cling to what is good." Do you think Jesus is the devil? :o

God also said; "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated." Do you think God is the devil? :o

 

[gingercat]

Stove,

The forums have been debating the doctrines over and over with no end. Is it really reaching any point? Even satan used Scriptures to tempt Jesus!

The Bible tells us to look for the fruit or something like that, yet it gets nasty reaction when one mentions about the fruit, like you are and my opposers are doing right now. We hardly ever talk about fruit of Christianity in over all.

The Catholics are super good at training their people to keep on doing what they have been doing.

Protestants are learning very well from them too. It is so sad.

 

[stovebolts]

Heidi,
You and I go back a long way. I do not wish to argue with you in vain as it will only lead to us biting and tearing each other apart. History repeats itself and though to be alive, one has to die, I do not wish to pick you apart.

Heidi, may God bless you and continue to work great things in your life. Peace be with you.

 

[stovebolts]

Stove,

The forums have been debating the doctrines over and over with no end. Is it really reaching any point? Even satan used Scriptures to tempt Jesus!

The Bible tells us to look for the fruit or something like that, yet it gets nasty reaction when one mentions about the fruit, like you are and my opposers are doing right now. We hardly ever talk about fruit of Christianity in over all.

The Catholics are super good at training their people to keep on doing what they have been doing.

Protestants are learning very well from them too. It is so sad.

1. Has and does your church continue to feed and clothe the poor?
2. Does your church visit those in prison?
3. Does your church take care of the widows and if so in what manner?
4. Does your church have elders that task members for good works and if so, what are they?

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,
You and I go back a long way. I do not wish to argue with you in vain as it will only lead to us biting and tearing each other apart. History repeats itself and though to be alive, one has to die, I do not wish to pick you apart.

Heidi, may God bless you and continue to work great things in your life. Peace be with you.

Nice cop out when you are caught in a contradiction, my friend. ;-)

 

[gingercat]

I am sorry readers I have to repeat the same testimony since Stove insists. :wink:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Jesus is enabling us to do. (Praise the Lord!!!!!)

I have been Christian for 7 years. Since then He gave me a biggest blessings of my 3 children (out of 4) Christians. They had chance to follow their popular Christian father. But they chose to follow obedient Christian mother instead. They are still baby Christians (sort of), but they are determined to be sincere obedient Christians and they are progressing rapidly. They are making my job as a mother very easy. My son is 18 and my daughter is 15. And another one is 27 who repented from disobedient one with the 5 year old son who are living with me. Because they are commited Christians, we hardly have secular problems. They are appreciating more and more about obedience to the Lord.
Thank you Jesus for happy one big family!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a house cleaner and separated from my husband with GED education, Yet Jesus is enabling me to support persecuted brethren $500.00 a month. Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is giving me a heart of evangelism so I have been evangelizing since I became Christian 7 years ago. He is even enabling me to go to my own native land (Okinawa) every once in a while to reach the lost souls. (most of them are not Christians.)
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is enabling us to study the Bible everyday and obey.
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is enabling us to be kind to everyone all around us.
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is enabling us to devote to Him everyday.
Prise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is teaching us to live humbly so we don't have to complain when we don't have what we want so we don't need money as much as most.
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is giving us compassion for persecuted Christians who are almost abondoned by wealthy Christians.
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is giving us confidence that we can handle anything with His help.
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is making us feel we are the richest Christians in the world.
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is giving us hearts of obedience so that we can encourage everyone to be obedience instead of saying that obedience is legalism, for your glory because we know that disobedience is the cause of all kinds of evil deeds.

I can go on forever! Thank you Jesus for so many blessings you are giving us each day. No one can take away this joy from us! Thank you for teaching us to be obedient to Your teachngs and commands.!!!!!!

Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Halelujah!!!!!!!!!!!

His grateful sevant

 

[stovebolts]

Heidi,
You are too much... I do not wish pride to take the best of either of us.

Proverbs 10:10 He that winks with the eye causes trouble: but a prating fool shall fall.

Prating
To talk idly and at length; chatter.


Tell me, do you really want me to call you on this? Say yes and we shall dig our heels in and I shall endure with patience, kindness and understanding to the best of my abilities for another hour.

Malachi 2:7 For the priest's lips should preserve knowledge, and they should seek the law from his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

 

[stovebolts]

That was a fantastic testimony gingercat.

Now, could you directly answer these questions?

1. Has and does your church continue to feed and clothe the poor?
2. Does your church visit those in prison?
3. Does your church take care of the widows and if so in what manner?
4. Does your church have elders that task members for good works and if so, what are they?


Much thanks in advance.

 

[gingercat]

But the fact is, they are not Christian and don't give a rats behind about Christianity and are only interested in revealing the bad news, all the things wrong with the world that's going on--especially with Christianity and all religion. Only very rarely do you see a news story about something good in the world.

Jesus tells us to be spotless especially the leaders! Media is our critics. Jesus tells us to be salt and light in the world. If the world can catch us doing evil things, that's our fruit.

Why do you keep covering up from the reality?

Jesus is setting a very high standard. We should not have rotten reputation.

I am from Okinawa and they don't have many churches and Christians there but they are keeping super reputation as godly Christians.

If you have mega churches your responsibility is enormous too.

I know many of you are saying that we cannot watch so many people. Well then, you don't have God in you. Jesus says, with God eveything is posible!

 

[gingercat]

That was a fantastic testimony gingercat.

Now, could you directly answer these questions?

1. Has and does your church continue to feed and clothe the poor?
2. Does your church visit those in prison?
3. Does your church take care of the widows and if so in what manner?
4. Does your church have elders that task members for good works and if so, what are they?


Much thanks in advance.

Yes, My VOM is my representative, my family is sending the $500.00 a month to feed and visit widows. Like I said in my testimony, I don't earn much as house cleaner, we have to lower our standard of living very low to give that much. And it is way beyond 10% of our income. Praise the Lord!!!

My Bible is my elder and pastor. The Bible is much more effective than corrupted churches.

I know You are worshipper of chur crhuch organization but it is your problem. I will not cooperate in your interpretation of the Bible. We will find out who is in line with Lord soon enough, Stove :wink:

Please don't ignore the rest I showed in my testimony. My family and I are devoting in many ways for the Lord. What you listed up is just only some of them my friend.

 

[stovebolts]

gingercat,

I wish you wouldn't be so filled with anger toward all churches. You seem to enjoy testimony, here's a great one on the church in Japan.

The Remarkable Story of Ryohachi Shigekuni

http://westsidechurchofchrist.pepperdin ... rticle.htm

We have spoken of lasting fruit, the church of Christ has lasting fruit.

My Bible is my elder and pastor. The Bible is much more effective than corrupted churches.

I don't understand this? Why is anything outside a home church evil in your experience? I'd also like to say that your bible is not an elder nor is it a pastor. However, the bible does tell us how to pick elders and how an elder should behave. Furthermore, the bible is very clear on WHY we need to have elders.

 

[gingercat]

I wish you wouldn't be so filled with anger toward all churches. You seem to enjoy testimony, here's a great one on the church in Japan.

we need to have elders.

Stove,

If you take my convictions as anger that is your problem. It seems to me another tactic to keep my mouth shut.

Satan loves evil deeds hidden. I dont believe I am attacking any true brethren. The Bible also tell us to watch out for false prophets!

My church is VOM, my family and everyone I evangelise to.

I will not let you or anyone else intimidate my walk with Him.

You also stated I am enjoyng my testimony. Of course I do. Jesus is working in my family's life. It seems that you keep forget that we cannot do anything good, not even one. I am repeating the same comments over and over because you are accusing me of same thing over and over. Do you get it?

You asked questons and I just gave it to you and your are complaning about it for given. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[stovebolts]

Gingercat,
If you are part of VOM, then you can thank God that he allows the church of Christ to print and hand out most of the bibles and christian literature that go to China underground. That is also a mission that we support heavily and the guy (I won't mention his name) comes to our church every year to give us updates.

BTW, he also accepts donations from the baptist church, but his foundation is church of Christ.

 

[gingercat]

Stove, I am not competing with anyone. You are the one who questioned my fruit of Christianity, remember?

Do you notice I am mentioning and thanking God for every good work He is doing in my family's lives?

I brought this topic because what I observe in the Christian community. I picked specifically catholics because their priests have enormous mumber of crimes they are committing.

 

[stovebolts]

Oh I understand that gingercat, but what I want you to understand is that even though a catholic priest molests a kid, it doesn't mean that the catholic church is evil. What it means is that evil people do evil things and some of them are members of an orginized religion and in this case, you point your guns at the Catholic church.

If you look at religion as a whole, there are many many crimes committed by individuals associated with religion. It is fair to say that in the Catholic church, there are priests that have committed some serious crimes. But it is not fair to say that all priests commit crimes.

All I'm asking for is fairness. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as competing, I am not competing either. But it was brought up that we will be known by our fruits. Point of fact is this, the Catholic church has a lot of great fruit out there and it shouldn't be thrown out because of a couple of bad apples (pun intended). Same thing with the baptist, orthodox, evangelical, VOM, yada yada yada....

Tell me if I am wrong, but it appears to me that if you belong to any congregtion (such as the catholic church, church of christ, southern baptist ect...) then were all in err and your right.... Am I correct in my view of your stance. If I am not correct, please let me know and I will humbly ask for your forgivness with a sincere heart.

I have to go now, not sure when I can check the boards.

 

[Imagican]

Stove,

While I will readily admit that ALL churches are inevitably be fraught with their share of negativity, the thread was directed towards one of the most corrupt and misaligned religions on the planet. Quite a testimony these people have to offer in the 'name of Christ'.

They 'hi-jacked' Christianity from the masses under Roman rule, and manipulated the populace for their gain for hundreds and hundreds of years, bringing pain and death to ALL who refused to accept their teachings. Taking the Word of God and altering it to suit their desires and refusing to offer it to those that they controlled.

If you will study just a 'little bit' of their history, you will find that there were many of the brightest and most talented people that were truly devoted to this 'religion', that realized and understood the corruption of the Catholic Church.

Take Galileo for an example. This 'group' of people LOCKED this man up for telling the 'truth'. And it wasn't even a 'doctrinal' difference that he offered, just the simple FACT that the earth was NOT the center of the universe. Now, could a Christian 'really' do this kind of thing in the name of Christ? And look at the ingenious and downright devious devices that these people invented in order to torture people. Could a Christian 'really' spend their time 'thinking up' such devices and USING them against their 'brothers' and honestly 'BE' Christians? I mean darkness and light ARE separate. How could you possibly BE a Christian and then go against the MOST basic principle of Christianity. And then when one considers that the leaders of the Church were often the MOST corrupt of this religion, torturing and murdering others for crimes that were often NOTHING compared to the crimes committed by the 'enforcers' of their form of Christianity.

No, my friend, to defend this group is nothing less than to 'take part' in their atrocious crimes against humanity and God Himself. As ginger pointed out, we ARE to expose the evils of this world and 'try' and warn our brothers and sisters to 'beware'.

I am well aware that MOST churches are NOT following or teaching the 'truth', but there has NEVER been ANY other church that has come close to the madness of the Catholics. James Jones would look like a Saint compared to the crimes that these have committed against humanity. The 900+ that he murdered were but a drop in the bucket compared to those, probably 'true' Christians that the Catholics murdered. Would you defend James Jones' temple? Well then, these were worse by 'light-years in comparison.

And, they don't even offer their sympathy for this behavior. They do just has you have done. They try to offer that 'no one' is perfect. WHAT????????
Can you imagine being a juror at James Jones trial, (had he not committed suicide), and making your decision on his guilt or innocence based upon such a defense? Especially if he stood up right in front of you and stated emphatically that what he had done was done in the NAME OF GOD?????

No, these deserve NO defense. Ours is NOT to do unto them as they have done unto others. But we should certainly warn any and EVERYONE that these have NOT followed the teachings of God, Christ or His apostles. Fortunately we have arrived at a time in history that these have LOST their political power of the past and are UNABLE to torture and murder those that disagree with them. Take yourself back in time, though, and imagine what pain, fear, and loss of personal freedom that these brought against their brothers and sisters. There IS NO DEFENSE OF SUCH TREATMENT OF MANKIND.

I accuse NO Catholic of today of the crimes of their past leaders and teachers. I simply accuse the Catholic faith itself of being a 'tool' of something or someone OTHER than God or Christ. For those of the past to be able to do what they have done offers NO indication of the Spirit of Christ. JUST THE OPPOSITE. And we haven't EVEN touched on their 'false doctrine'. Just their crimes of hate against their fellow man.

 

[Imagican]

And let me add this: before anyone comes along and starts 'banging on me' for offering the truth, if you feel compelled to do so, simply show me and others what I have stated that is NOT the 'truth'. If it is the truth, then what defense could one offer this corupt and dangerous religious system?

 

[gingercat]

Tell me if I am wrong, but it appears to me that if you belong to any congregtion (such as the catholic church, church of christ, southern baptist ect...) then were all in err and your right.... Am I correct in my view of your stance. If I am not correct, please let me know and I will humbly ask for your forgivness with a sincere heart.

Stove,

I already voiced how I feel about the "Church" and how I interpret what the Bible says about it in my thread "What is Church".

I ask you to read it because you are insinuating I am not being biblical.

As far as fairness, I have been focusing the fruit of Christianity in most of my threads. I have been talking about Protestants' fruit of Christianity plenty. Now I am focussing on Catholics.

I do not need your permission what I do for the Lord.

Good day Stove.

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Imagicain,

Let me say this to you and maybe this will become a bit clearer.

Hate is hate no matter how you color it. If somebody wants to state a fact, then by all means let the truth shine. But when people under the guise of religion start getting their rocks off by bashing another religious group just so they can feel better about their own doctrine, then my friend we have sadly missed the mark.

You see, I don't defend the Catholic church as it appears that I may, what I defend is a principal that the bible sets forth, and that is truth through love and forgivness. We cannot hate our brother. No, we must love our brother and love our enemy.

If I am in err, show me for I am not above reproof.
God is the judge and all will be judged by him while we are responsible ourselves for our own condemnation. You see, and I really don't care to be polite about now, please forgive me for my outburst, but what I see are two women that at times feed off each other as they yip and yap and build themselves up on folly and unjust accusations peppered with a tad of truth. Meanwhile, (and I can't be the only one that sees this) the other goody little prot's just stay out of it. Kinda like a black couple in georga fighting and the white folk just keeps on walking... It's just not right. Period

Going back to the Catholic church, if it is God's will, then it will decay as it has in recent months. Here in Detroit, they are closing more and more of the cathedreals as the faith reaps what they have sown. Now, they havn't been closing these down because there are people that bash them unjustly, they are closing them down because their fruit.

I have noticed in my lifetime that people will more readily converse and jump on the wagon when there is chaos as chaos feeds the flesh. This is wrong and when it comes to calling out bad fruit, I think this is one aspect of what the bible is speaking of.

Tell me, if I say that the catholic church is corrupt because their priests molest little boys, would that be an accurate statment and reflection of the Catholic faith?

Simply put, no it wouldn't. If it were, then the athiest are right when they say that religion is a hoax.

In closing, we will be judged by the measure we measure others with. I certainly don't like my weakness' blown out of proportion and thus, I try not to blow others out of porpotion either. On the contrary, I appreciate it when others show me my faults in a manner that shows that they care for my soul that I may be edified and encouraged in Christ.

Am I right? Am I wrong? I dont' think it really matters because in some weird way, I believe it all serves God's purpose.

 

[Packrat]

Christ said that a 'good tree does not yield bad fruit nor a bad tree yield good fruit' or something similar to that. Someone can point a finger at a 'Christian' and say, "Look! You did something wrong. Therefore Christianity is evil and wrong!" Or they could point the finger at the Person and say, "You did something wrong. You must not be a Christian or you must not be living up to Christian morals."

The main difference is not blaming a group of individuals for wrong done by one individual claiming to be in that group, but is blaming the group for wrong that it endorses. You cannot hold a case against Christianity unless you can hold a case against Christ. The same goes for Catholicism. If Catholics endorse evil deeds, then blame them. If they don't, then you can do nothing but blame the individual claiming to be Catholic. This will merely show that the person claiming to be Catholic is 1. not Catholic if they are acting contrary to the doctrines in Catholicism or 2. has failed miserably and soon will not be Catholic due to circumstances brought on by their failure.

I personally don't know what sort of teachings Catholics uphold other than a mass of liturgy I really don't care for. I've never been interested in it, but I'm just saying judge a group based on what its teachings are - not by one individual screwing up who says that they are from this group. There are plenty of imposters in different societies.