Children and heaven

[Lyric's Dad]

Perhaps this is a case of God knowing the end from the beginning. Had the child lived he/she WOULD have accepted Jesus and would therefore have been saved. On the other hand, had the child lived he/she WOULD NOT have accepted Jesus and would therefore not have been saved. The decision to accept Jesus or not is left solely to the individual; however, God knows in advance who will and who will not do so. That's about the only way that I can come to terms with this issue.

Exactly. Now that doesn't mean that all children who live will accept Jesus Christ of course, because Jesus said that only few will find the narrow road. But it does mean that children who die in childhood could not have been called even if they had lived.

Heidi, the (g)od you have represented in this thread is a monster. If this were true of the living God, I would want nothing to do with Him. I would rather go into the make believe hell and try and comfort the babies that are burning there. I would rather spend eternity holding the condemned infants then worshiping a sadistic monster.

Praise God that the Father is not what you have described and IS worthy of worship and praise. Praise God that the Lord and Messiah loves the little ones.

 

[thessalonian]

I do have a question for Heidi and anyone else who thinks they go to hell. On what basis do they go to hell unless you believe in orignal sin?

By the way for those who believe that some express act of belief is neccessary, my Brother in Law, a Baptist, has a four year old daughter whom he says recently got "saved". Now I'm not knocking him instilling in her Jesus by any means. I start teaching my kids his name before they are 2. But I simply don't believe that a child at 4 has enough of a grasp of reality to understand sin and make a lifelong committment to Christ. Further there is no real support for an "age of reason" in the Bible. So how do you know when your kid "must get saved"? These are all questions that are not dealt with very well in faith alone, once saved always saved theology.

Blessings

I agree 100%. Coming out of a "gotta get saved" religious background is quite enlightening. There is no way that a four year old and for that matter, quite a large percentage of children much older could even begin to grasp what that all means. They are just doing what they see everyone else doing in their lives.

And the idea that faith alone saves is completely unbiblical. It never says that. Grace saves but we access it through faith and that faith is maifest through our obedience to His commands and our constant striving to do the right thing.

Amen.

 

[Heidi]

Perhaps this is a case of God knowing the end from the beginning. Had the child lived he/she WOULD have accepted Jesus and would therefore have been saved. On the other hand, had the child lived he/she WOULD NOT have accepted Jesus and would therefore not have been saved. The decision to accept Jesus or not is left solely to the individual; however, God knows in advance who will and who will not do so. That's about the only way that I can come to terms with this issue.

Exactly. Now that doesn't mean that all children who live will accept Jesus Christ of course, because Jesus said that only few will find the narrow road. But it does mean that children who die in childhood could not have been called even if they had lived.

Heidi, the (g)od you have represented in this thread is a monster. If this were true of the living God, I would want nothing to do with Him. I would rather go into the make believe hell and try and comfort the babies that are burning there. I would rather spend eternity holding the condemned infants then worshiping a sadistic monster.

Praise God that the Father is not what you have described and IS worthy of worship and praise. Praise God that the Lord and Messiah loves the little ones.

So you think that humans are entitled to heaven just because they were born even if they defy God's laws and think they know better than he does and even deny there's a God and a heaven in the first place? Sorry, but how is that not selfish and why should God reward this type of thinking? :o How do you think your earthly boss would treat you if you treated him the way the majority of the world treats Jesus?

Also, please explain how can someone receive love from some he denies exists.

Jesus says there is only one way to heaven and that is knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent. Those are his words, not mine. If you have a problem with his statements, then talk to him about them.

 

[stovebolts]

Heidi,

What is it to be Holy?
Or rather, what does it take to be holy? How about sanctified... (This is where the OT really comes into play, for much of it was a mere shadow of things to come)

After you answer that, please explain this verse.
1 Corinthians 7:13 And the woman who has a husband that believes not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

I await your response with great eagerness.

In Christ's great love,


BTW, do you know what the "Narrow Gate" is? It's the entrance to the tabernacle... where the 'outer' court was, then the holy place only allowed for the priests and then the holy of holies... where the ark was kept in perfect darkness... Now remember, the entrance to the tabernacle was guarded...

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come a high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

 

[protos]

This is what I called the baby paradox, and it puzzled me for quite some time. Lost quite some sleep over the issue, which at the time I thought contradicted free will and God's justice, but as I found out it didn't, but in fact came to the exact conclusion that is stated in The Bible: This world was made for us to condemn ourselves (and Christ came to save us):

The age of accountability, postulated to be sometime after puberty, is when the person is held responsible for the sins he commits. Prior to that, he/she was "blind" to his/her sins meaning they did not know right from wrong. This is why all babies who die are guaranteed to be in The Kingdom of Heaven. Same with the mentally disabled and ill.

However, the question must be raised, what if the baby that died, had it lived would have rejected Christ as his/her Savior, and thus receive a punishment of eternal damnation. Since God knows everyone who would reject Him, He does not allow the death of infants who would later grow up to reject Him. In the 4th century A.D. Saint Augustine made the assertion that only baptized infants go to Heaven, and non-baptized ones go to Hell. This is obviously not true, because no baby, baptized or not, knows the difference between right or wrong, and it would not be just to send someone to Hell who didn't know he was committing sins.

The issue that is raised, is that only people who have chosen Christ are saved, and babies that die never truly chose Christ. The solution that God knows that they would have chosen Christ, and followed His ways, is first a misconception of the purpose of Christ, and second it raises another issue, the issue of justice that God specifically made the world for people to choose righteousness (Christ) or to remain in darkness(Unpardonable Sin). The babies did neither, so it would not be just to send them to Heaven.

The answer is that Christ came for our sins to be forgiven so that we become like those babies/kids! It's not the other way around. This is why He said, "Woe unto him who brings these into iniquity, for theirs is The Kingdom of Heaven. Nobody shall enter My Father's House until he becomes like them." (Not exactly as written in KJV Bible). He is saying that the reason He came was for us to become like children, who don't sin conscioussly. This is where the phrase born-again comes from, when you are born-again of The Spirit and become like a child.

Scripture supports that all children who die go to Heaven, because of when David's infant son died, he said that he knew his son's salvation was assured, but was unsure of his alive son, who was well past the age of accountability.

This does not mean that you should go out and kill infants. Not only is that the mortal sin of murder, but since the child that would have grown up to be a believer, by taking away his life, you would be taking away all the glorification he/she would have given to The Lord.

rest assured StoveBolts, your daughter will be in Heaven.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Perhaps this is a case of God knowing the end from the beginning. Had the child lived he/she WOULD have accepted Jesus and would therefore have been saved. On the other hand, had the child lived he/she WOULD NOT have accepted Jesus and would therefore not have been saved. The decision to accept Jesus or not is left solely to the individual; however, God knows in advance who will and who will not do so. That's about the only way that I can come to terms with this issue.

Exactly. Now that doesn't mean that all children who live will accept Jesus Christ of course, because Jesus said that only few will find the narrow road. But it does mean that children who die in childhood could not have been called even if they had lived.

Heidi, the (g)od you have represented in this thread is a monster. If this were true of the living God, I would want nothing to do with Him. I would rather go into the make believe hell and try and comfort the babies that are burning there. I would rather spend eternity holding the condemned infants then worshiping a sadistic monster.

Praise God that the Father is not what you have described and IS worthy of worship and praise. Praise God that the Lord and Messiah loves the little ones.

So you think that humans are entitled to heaven just because they were born even if they defy God's laws and think they know better than he does and even deny there's a God and a heaven in the first place? Sorry, but how is that not selfish and why should God reward this type of thinking? :o How do you think your earthly boss would treat you if you treated him the way the majority of the world treats Jesus?

Also, please explain how can someone receive love from some he denies exists.

Jesus says there is only one way to heaven and that is knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent. Those are his words, not mine. If you have a problem with his statements, then talk to him about them.

Oh, so many problems with your statements heidi. Where to begin.

Do I think they deserve heaven? Who? Babies?

ABSOLUTELY!!! What could they have possibly have ever done to warrant the brunt of a maniacal torturer? Anyone who thinks they deserve "hell" is a complete sicko.

How can someone receive love from someone he denies exists?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe by understanding that God IS love? That His very essence and being is love and that He is so loving that He came to pay the penalty to be the Savior of the WORLD? Remember that part?

What would my boss do?

Certainly not throw my baby into the flames and then keep him alive in there like some charles manson wannabe. And if he did burn my baby, our society would condemn him to the ultimate punishment we could come up with. Now, if our fallen society can even figure out that burning people, and especially babies is wrong, how come your (g)od can't? Gee, even hitler let those he tortured eventually have at least some degree of peace in death.

And yeah, Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. Aint it great that He came to lead us there? Even you Heidi who spends so much time turning His love into the hatred of the most evil maniac will experience His love.

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

What is it to be Holy?
Or rather, what does it take to be holy? How about sanctified... (This is where the OT really comes into play, for much of it was a mere shadow of things to come)

After you answer that, please explain this verse.
1 Corinthians 7:13 And the woman who has a husband that believes not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

I await your response with great eagerness.

In Christ's great love,


BTW, do you know what the "Narrow Gate" is? It's the entrance to the tabernacle... where the 'outer' court was, then the holy place only allowed for the priests and then the holy of holies... where the ark was kept in perfect darkness... Now remember, the entrance to the tabernacle was guarded...

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come a high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

I don't know which translation you have of the 1 Corinthians passage but the explanation in the NIV that I have says there are many conflicting opinions about what that passage means. But one thing it surely means is that the family is brought up under Christ because if the unbelieving spouse stays, then he can't have objections to his believing spouse's faith. And the children brought up in a Christian family who die before they reach adulthood haven't had the chance to reject the Word of God. So according to Paul, such children will not suffer hell. But that doesn't mean they were born again. It only means that they are sanctified through their parents' belief. Again, only God knows the hearts of each individual.

Paul also says in 1 Corinthians 7:16, "How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?" That passage clearly indicates that salvation is not a fact in such unions, but only a possibility.

But there are also many wolves in sheep's clothing who baptize their children as infants even though they themselves do not have a saving faith. Such children are not raised under the Holy Spirit but under deception and will not be considered sanctified. Paul is only talking about true believers here.

 

[stovebolts]

Heidi,

There are many things that go on that we cannot precisely put our finger on no matter how hard we try to put the gospel in this little tiny box so that we may 'understand' it.

As you know, God blinds whom he wills to blind and he hardens the hearts of those whome he chooses to harden. In this like, he also creates objects of wrath and objects of glory. Who are we to say to our God, why have you made me this way, or why have you made him that way? Now, this is not to say that we are by any means puppets, but it goes to show that God truly is sovergn and through his wisdom and majesty, he will save whome He chooses to save.

In this same light, scripture says that when man and wife come together, they are one. Can a house divided stand? Yet we (as professed Christians) make the claim through scripture that we are the body of Christ. How then can a half of a whole be saved? Again, it is not for us to judge these things with our feeble minds and thereby limit the power and majisty of our Lord and Savior for the Lord chastises him whome he loves that he may be perfected and made holy through His discipline for there are sins that result in death, and sin that does not for blessed is the man who's sins are covered and not held against him.

So comes the matter of a child or infant who dies for whatever reason. Let me first state that when Moses was told how to build the tabernacle, notice that there was never a covering for the floor. Hence, the priests were made to have their feet in the sand which kept them in rememberance that they were here on this earth that they might not thing to highly of themselves. That being said, I cannot know (from a personal view) if my daughter is in hell or if she is in heaven. But I do know that I was greatly hurt when my beloved daughter died. I recall holding her warm, limp body in my arms and crying out to God with everything that was within me. My Dear God, it was all that was within me to lay her down, and much more to bury her one shovel full at a time.. I have experienced much pain in my life...and I will leave it at that for I have two other daughters as well that are neither in my care, nor their mothers and hence, there is a living death that is only escaped through the hope of our Lord Jesus.

What I'm saying Heidi is this. The gospel pierces like a sword, and it comforts as a child upon it's mothers breasts. For those of us who seek God's hope, do not take that away from us by casting doubt. There is nothing you can do and there is nothing I can do to bring back our dead. But Jesus did raise from the dead and there we find our security that ALL will be raised and ALL will be judged accordingly for ALL are not enemies of Christ.

 

[Heidi]

Hi Jeff,

Paul is for the most part, referring to people who become believers after they were married. Those who were believers before they were married will not be yolked together with an unbeliever, if they correctly perceive they are marrying a believer. In a marriage with 2 born again Christians, divorce is never an option.

But in a marriage with a believer and an unbeliever, the unbeliever can choose whether he wants to leave or stay with the believer. If he stays, he obviously is not rejecting his spouse's faith which means he is probably being called by God.

But saying that a Christian who has sex with an atheist will make the atheist clean regardless of whether or not they are married, is ridiculous. Each adult has to come to God on his own and is accountable for his choices. God intended that man and woman become one flesh united under God and that is the purpose of marriage. But that's unfortunately, not the way humans without God in their lives view sex or marriage.

But again, children who don't know anything else but the word of God can only die with the knowledge they possess. And that's what makes children in the unions between two Christians who honor God's word, clean. But children who have unbelieving parents also die with the knowledge they possess until they can decide for themselves what they believe. Such children will die without the knowledge of Jesus Christ as the only way to God. They were not in a sanctified marriage so they themselves cannot be sanctified until they make a personal decision on their own.

 

[stovebolts]

Hello Heidi,

I'm sorry Heidi, but you will not be able to teach me out of any commentaries that you have read. You see, this is where the spirit leads to truth, a truth that cannot be pigon holed into some commentary that you have spit out of some web page. You see, you speak out of knowledge from a book, I speak from the spirit that comes from God's word, and that Word, is His Son Jesus.

You see, simply put, man's greatest wisdom is stupider than God's foolishness and right now Heidi, you are attempting to be wiser than you ought.

Heidi, there is a thing called discernment. I've gotten out of apologetics because it was causing me to become bitter and through that bitterness, there was not life, but only death. However, through death, life was found.

Now, regarding the death of a child, I demand that you recant the statment that ALL children go to hell for you have no scripture to back it but more importantly, you have NO AUTHORITY to make such a claim.

I expect an apology and to see true humility in your next post.

Pray about this before you reply.

In Christ,
Jeff

 

[Heidi]

Hello Heidi,

I'm sorry Heidi, but you will not be able to teach me out of any commentaries that you have read. You see, this is where the spirit leads to truth, a truth that cannot be pigon holed into some commentary that you have spit out of some web page. You see, you speak out of knowledge from a book, I speak from the spirit that comes from God's word, and that Word, is His Son Jesus.

You see, simply put, man's greatest wisdom is stupider than God's foolishness and right now Heidi, you are attempting to be wiser than you ought.

Heidi, there is a thing called discernment. I've gotten out of apologetics because it was causing me to become bitter and through that bitterness, there was not life, but only death. However, through death, life was found.

Now, regarding the death of a child, I demand that you recant the statment that ALL children go to hell for you have no scripture to back it but more importantly, you have NO AUTHORITY to make such a claim.

I expect an apology and to see true humility in your next post.

Pray about this before you reply.

In Christ,
Jeff

Sorry, Jeff, but my interpretations come from the Holy Spirit and scritpure. And nothing in my interpretations has contradicted any scripture so I'll keep my interpretations. The bible was written with the same spirit that indwells in all true believers so the 2 will always be in agreement.

And I have never said that all children go to hell. I said that all children will not go to heaven and there is a huge difference. God will not let one of his children who was chosen before the creation of the world to perish before he knows the Word of God. That is why children who die in childhood were either not chosen before the creation of the world or have already received the knowledge of God, period.

 

[Heidi]

In fact, Jeff, the passage in 1 Corinthians said that some children would not be holy, especially if they come from a union not sanctified by God, which is exemplified in the passage; "Otherwise, your children would be unclean." And that's one reason he tells us to stay with our spouse unless the spouse wants to leave. So Paul himslef says there are children who are not holy.

 

[stovebolts]

Paul also says in 1 Corinthians 7:16, "How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?" That passage clearly indicates that salvation is not a fact in such unions, but only a possibility.

Heidi,
Please, take heed of your own words. The emphasis on "Possibility"... and there in lays my hope that my daughter will unite with Christ in heaven.

But as far as unions go, specifically with Christ, who can snatch those out of His hands whom the father has given to Him? Are we not saved by Grace? Therefore, faith becomes a means to rightousnes would it not?

You see, you are doing the same thing as the pharasis... you are seeking to take away and disprove the scriptures here. This is why you dwell on those who will not see heaven yet are blind to your own words.

Possibly means we don't really know. We may have a good idea, but those ideas are based on what we are able to see, and what we are able to see, is based on what were allowed to see according to the grace given us.

Now, taking what you said one step further, the Church is Christ's bride and Christ is holy. There are those who are in union with Christ, yet if they become too proud, the wild olive branches that were grafted on, can be easily removed... and that is a possibility, yet it does not mean that all whom are grafted will become arrogant resulting in all whome are grafted will become holy. You see, some will, some won't, but regardless, it's all in accord with the Grace given and as you know, grace cannot be earned for if it were, then it wouldn't be grace for it would become a wage... and it is by grace that we are saved and that dear Heidi, depends on God's will, for truly, he will save whome he chooses.

Again, do you dare attempt take my hope in Christ away that my daughter might possibly be saved? I am aware that we hope in things we do not have for if we had them, it would not be hope. Tell me, is my hope tainted? Is it wrong for me to hope that our Lord have mercy that my daughter be saved?

I await your response as this topic is much more than a fancy of mine, but rather very real. After all, if it's not real but rather a bunch of reasoning, what good is it?

Peace be with you my Sister in Christ,

Jeff

 

[stovebolts]

In fact, Jeff, the passage in 1 Corinthians said that SOME children would not be holy, especially if they come from a union not sanctified by God, which is exemplified in the passage; "Otherwise, your children would be unclean." And that's one reason he tells us to stay with our spouse unless the spouse wants to leave. So Paul himslef says there are children who are not holy.

Emphasis on SOME...

As far as being 'unclean'... that's a whole other theology...

 

[Collier]

StoveBolts:Let me say that I am so sorry to hear that you lost a child. I have two of my own and I couldn't imagine what you went through.As far as this topic goes, the Bible teaches that ALL children are safe. Some of these verses have already been offered but let's look at them again.2 Samuel 12:23, "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David's child was 7 days old, yet David knew that the child would be with God.Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."Matthew 18:2-3, "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them. And said, verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Why would Jesus say we need to become as a child to enter heaven if a child was lost?Matthew 19:13-14, "Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Again, Jesus likens the kingdom to children.I Corinthians 14:20, "Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice (evil) be ye children, but in understanding be men." Why would Paul, through inspiration of the HS, say to be as children in evil? The OT saints recognized children as being safe, Jesus saw children as pure and clean and the NT apostles believed children not to be evil or lost. Who are we to argue against God and His word?

 

[stovebolts]

Sorry, Jeff, but my interpretations come from the Holy Spirit and scritpure. And nothing in my interpretations has contradicted any scripture so I'll keep my interpretations. The bible was written with the same spirit that indwells in all true believers so the 2 will always be in agreement.

Heidi, do you realize that we are members of the same body? If this is what the lord has allowed you to see, then may God bless and have mercy on your soul as he will bless and have mercy on my soul.

And I have never said that all children go to hell. I said that all children will not go to heaven

Kind of sounded like all dead children went to hell... Sorry if I have mistaken what you have written.

and there is a huge difference

.
Of course there is... it allows the elite to bolster of it's own salvation.

God will not let one of his children who was chosen before the creation of the world to perish before he knows the Word of God.

I have no comment. What would it show or how would it encourage anyone if I did anyway?

That is why children who die in childhood were either not chosen before the creation of the world or have already received the knowledge of God, period.

Ok... so what in the world is your point? Is it that 'some' babies go to heaven and 'some' don't? Shame on you for making such a statment Heidi for the very reason that it serves absolutly NO PURPOSE> How, please heidi, with tears almost coming down my cheeks does this make ANY difference in yours, mine or anyone elses salvation? I am simply at a loss how sombody can say that a child can go to hell and burn for eternity, yet at the same time de-value baptism by jumping down the throats of anyone who believes in infant baptism... Do you realize that some people baptise their infants because they love their children and they want to please God? If not anything else, maybe they find their hope in knowing that they did what they could do to ensure that their babies were saved... And yes, I am a proclaimed Protestant, but it is not my place to judge anothers heart, for that, I am certainly unqualified.

I realize that this kind of theology is 'stimulating' to the intellect, but what purpose does it really serve? Furthermore, if we get so caught up in our intellect, we loose our emotions. Yes, my emotions are probably taking over my intellect, but so be it. I am human, can you show me the same mercy I have shown you?

Heidi, do me one favor please. First, you can keep your belief, it matters little to me although is saddens me that anyone would even think of such things. So now, I kindly ask of you to answer these simple answers. Please, do not fear, for your answers are your answers. I will allow you that without rebuke. I simply want to know and then, I will sign off.

Heidi,
Please answer this.
1. I realize that this kind of theology is 'stimulating' to the intellect, but what purpose does it really serve?
2. What prompted you to start this thread?
3. How does it edify the Body of Christ? In other words, what does this have to do with salvation?

Everyone else, thank you, I appreciate your posts.

Amen

 

[protos]

StoveBolts:Let me say that I am so sorry to hear that you lost a child. I have two of my own and I couldn't imagine what you went through.As far as this topic goes, the Bible teaches that ALL children are safe. Some of these verses have already been offered but let's look at them again.2 Samuel 12:23, "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David's child was 7 days old, yet David knew that the child would be with God.Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."Matthew 18:2-3, "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them. And said, verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Why would Jesus say we need to become as a child to enter heaven if a child was lost?Matthew 19:13-14, "Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Again, Jesus likens the kingdom to children.I Corinthians 14:20, "Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice (evil) be ye children, but in understanding be men." Why would Paul, through inspiration of the HS, say to be as children in evil? The OT saints recognized children as being safe, Jesus saw children as pure and clean and the NT apostles believed children not to be evil or lost. Who are we to argue against God and His word?

That's exactly what I said. Baptized or not, dead children go to Heaven.

 

[thessalonian]

That's exactly what I said. Baptized or not, dead children go to Heaven.

Where is the problem with just saying we leave it up to the mercy and justice of God. Do we not trust him? Honestly I see no difinitive statements on the matter. I believe they go to heaven. Yet if some do not, i.e. those born to pagans, I wouldn't be particularly surprized.

 

[Heidi]

StoveBolts:Let me say that I am so sorry to hear that you lost a child. I have two of my own and I couldn't imagine what you went through.As far as this topic goes, the Bible teaches that ALL children are safe. Some of these verses have already been offered but let's look at them again.2 Samuel 12:23, "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David's child was 7 days old, yet David knew that the child would be with God.Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."Matthew 18:2-3, "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them. And said, verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Why would Jesus say we need to become as a child to enter heaven if a child was lost?Matthew 19:13-14, "Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Again, Jesus likens the kingdom to children.I Corinthians 14:20, "Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice (evil) be ye children, but in understanding be men." Why would Paul, through inspiration of the HS, say to be as children in evil? The OT saints recognized children as being safe, Jesus saw children as pure and clean and the NT apostles believed children not to be evil or lost. Who are we to argue against God and His word?

That's exactly what I said. Baptized or not, dead children go to Heaven.

Sorry, but you don't make the decisions of the universe. Jesus tells us who goes to heaven so you need to read his words to find out.

 

[protos]

StoveBolts:Let me say that I am so sorry to hear that you lost a child. I have two of my own and I couldn't imagine what you went through.As far as this topic goes, the Bible teaches that ALL children are safe. Some of these verses have already been offered but let's look at them again.2 Samuel 12:23, "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David's child was 7 days old, yet David knew that the child would be with God.Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."Matthew 18:2-3, "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them. And said, verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Why would Jesus say we need to become as a child to enter heaven if a child was lost?Matthew 19:13-14, "Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Again, Jesus likens the kingdom to children.I Corinthians 14:20, "Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice (evil) be ye children, but in understanding be men." Why would Paul, through inspiration of the HS, say to be as children in evil? The OT saints recognized children as being safe, Jesus saw children as pure and clean and the NT apostles believed children not to be evil or lost. Who are we to argue against God and His word?

That's exactly what I said. Baptized or not, dead children go to Heaven.

Sorry, but you don't make the decisions of the universe. Jesus tells us who goes to heaven so you need to read his words to find out.

I didn't make that decision, I'm just the messenger:

I posted this, but I guess it was overlooked:

The age of accountability, postulated to be sometime after puberty, is when the person is held responsible for the sins he commits. Prior to that, he/she was "blind" to his/her sins meaning they did not know right from wrong. This is why all babies who die are guaranteed to be in The Kingdom of Heaven. Same with the mentally disabled and ill.

However, the question must be raised, what if the baby that died, had it lived would have rejected Christ as his/her Savior, and thus receive a punishment of eternal damnation. Since God knows everyone who would reject Him, He does not allow the death of infants who would later grow up to reject Him. In the 4th century A.D. Saint Augustine made the assertion that only baptized infants go to Heaven, and non-baptized ones go to Hell. This is obviously not true, because no baby, baptized or not, knows the difference between right or wrong, and it would not be just to send someone to Hell who didn't know he was committing sins.

The issue that is raised, is that only people who have chosen Christ are saved, and babies that die never truly chose Christ. The solution that God knows that they would have chosen Christ, and followed His ways, is first a misconception of the purpose of Christ, and second it raises another issue, the issue of justice that God specifically made the world for people to choose righteousness (Christ) or to remain in darkness(Unpardonable Sin). The babies did neither, so it would not be just to send them to Heaven.

The answer is that Christ came for our sins to be forgiven so that we become like those babies/kids! It's not the other way around. This is why He said, "Woe unto him who brings these into iniquity, for theirs is The Kingdom of Heaven. Nobody shall enter My Father's House until he becomes like them." (Not exactly as written in KJV Bible). He is saying that the reason He came was for us to become like children, who don't sin conscioussly. This is where the phrase born-again comes from, when you are born-again of The Spirit and become like a child.

Scripture supports that all children who die go to Heaven, because of when David's infant son died, he said that he knew his son's salvation was assured, but was unsure of his alive son, who was well past the age of accountability.

This does not mean that you should go out and kill infants. Not only is that the mortal sin of murder, but since the child that would have grown up to be a believer, by taking away his life, you would be taking away all the glorification he/she would have given to The Lord.