Christ and His church are one!

[Doug Brents]

God always establishes order on obedience to the hierarchical authority of fathers

God has NEVER established His order on obedience to any hierarchical authority.

He established hierarchical authority to preserve the order He established! Today, that hierarchical authority is vested in the elders who are ordained within each congregation of the Church (not some superior "priesthood" that alone knows the meaning of the Word).

Blind obedience to the hierarchical authority is condemned, because if the hierarchical authority looses its way, then it leads all those who blindly follow astray with it (as the catholic priesthood has done). But if we, like the Berean's, check with the true authority (the Bible and the speaking of the Holy Spirit within us) then we will be ready to check the hierarchical authority when it begins going astray, and all of us keep all of us on the straight and narrow.

 

[JLB]

But if we, like the Berean's, check with the true authority (the Bible and the speaking of the Holy Spirit within us) then we will be ready to check the hierarchical authority when it begins going astray, and all of us keep all of us on the straight and narrow.

Amen sir.





The local elders, deacons and bishops are to serve the local Church in each city. Men of character and integrity in doctrine.

Here is one example of some guidelines —


But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things— that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed. Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility, sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you.
Titus 2:1-8

• Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility, sound speech that cannot be condemned…

JLB

 

[Bible]

God has NEVER established His order on obedience to any hierarchical authority.

He established hierarchical authority to preserve the order He established! Today, that hierarchical authority is vested in the elders who are ordained within each congregation of the Church (not some superior "priesthood" that alone knows the meaning of the Word).

Blind obedience to the hierarchical authority is condemned, because if the hierarchical authority looses its way, then it leads all those who blindly follow astray with it (as the catholic priesthood has done). But if we, like the Berean's, check with the true authority (the Bible and the speaking of the Holy Spirit within us) then we will be ready to check the hierarchical authority when it begins going astray, and all of us keep all of us on the straight and narrow.

Attacking the church is attacking Christ who founded it and is one with it acts 9:4

 

[Doug Brents]

Attacking the church is attacking Christ who founded it and is one with it acts 9:4

In the passage you cite, Paul was attacking and murdering people who believed in Christ, and worshipped Him.

I am pointing out that the catholic cult that calls itself a "church" is not a part of God's Church. It does not hold with Biblical teaching, and it exceeds Biblical authority routinely. It worships many things in addition to Christ: things like the rosery, Mary, the "saints", the Apostles, their "priesthood", the pope, and images and statues that depict these things. And anything that is worshipped outside of, or in addition to, Christ is condemned in Scripture and leads to the condemnation of the worshipper.

 

[for_his_glory]

Bible here is some more history for you.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea, Rev 13, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:15-28.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon, Rev 17:5) which causes man to take its mark. Daniel 7:25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-12.

 

[Bible]

In the passage you cite, Paul was attacking and murdering people who believed in Christ, and worshipped Him.

I am pointing out that the catholic cult that calls itself a "church" is not a part of God's Church. It does not hold with Biblical teaching, and it exceeds Biblical authority routinely. It worships many things in addition to Christ: things like the rosery, Mary, the "saints", the Apostles, their "priesthood", the pope, and images and statues that depict these things. And anything that is worshipped outside of, or in addition to, Christ is condemned in Scripture and leads to the condemnation of the worshipper.

FYI the Catholic Church teaches that only God may be worshiped
Are you opposed to Christian prayer and meditation
And it does not matter what Paul was doing in that verse Christ and his church are identified as one

 

[WIP]

Attacking the church is attacking Christ who founded it and is one with it acts 9:4

I notice you use the lower case "c" when speaking of the church. What you are saying is not accurate. Now, if you had used an upper case "C" you might have a more valid point. The real question becomes, who is the Church? God knows who or what it is, but do we? Some claim they do but do they really or are they deceiving themselves and only boasting?

 

[Bible]

I notice you use the lower case "c" when speaking of the church. What you are saying is not accurate. Now, if you had used an upper case "C" you might have a more valid point. The real question becomes, who is the Church? God knows who or what it is, but do we? Some claim they do but do they really or are they deceiving themselves and only boasting?

Sorry I was not paying attention
There a only one true Church

 

[WIP]

Sorry I was not paying attention
There a only one true Church

You are correct and it is not necessarily the Roman Catholic church. It is the body of believers in the Christ, Jesus.

 

[Bible]

You are correct and it is not necessarily the Roman Catholic church. It is the body of believers in the Christ, Jesus.

What’s a body of believers?
Spiritual union? A body is physical
Only those baptized into Christ and His Church

 

[for_his_glory]

FYI the Catholic Church teaches that only God may be worshiped

If they believe only God is to be worshiped then why do they bow down and worship Mary, Dagon, Ra and so many other idols as God said to make no graven images or worship them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[WIP]

What’s a body of believers?
Spiritual union? A body is physical
Only those baptized into Christ and His Church

Just as it says, "Body of believers." Claiming to be Christian or declaring membership in a church (lower c) does not make it so.

 

[Bible]

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Mary was a not God or a god not worshiped not offered sacrifice
Veneration and honor and images are biblical

 

[Bible]

Just as it says, "Body of believers." Claiming to be Christian or declaring membership in a church (lower c) does not make it so.

A body is physical

 

[Doug Brents]

FYI the Catholic Church teaches that only God may be worshiped
Are you opposed to Christian prayer and meditation
And it does not matter what Paul was doing in that verse Christ and his church are identified as one

It may "teach" that, but it practices something much different. I have seen with my own eyes catholics praying to Mary as if she were our Intercessor; as if she could take our pain to God (as only the Holy Spirit can do). I have seen them with "alters" set up in their home to which they bowed down and worshipped the picture or the idol that was part of the shrine. I have heard catholics in distress call out to "saints" to save them, as if the saint had died for the forgiveness of their sins. I see catholic cathedrals named after "saints" as if it were the "saint's" body that worshipped there, not our Lord and Savior's. (I can only remember one catholic cathedral named after Jesus, of the hundreds I have seen all over the world.)

No, I am not opposed to prayer and meditation. But I am opposed to prayer to things other than the Lord God.

Yes, Christ and His Church are one, just as a man and woman are one when they marry. One purpose, one destiny, one unit, but still separate in authority and power. Women are to submit to the husband, just as the Church is to submit to Christ, and Christ submits to the Father.

 

[Doug Brents]

A body is physical

Not necessarily. The Body of Christ is physical, spiritual, and metaphorical, all at the same time.

 

[WIP]

A body is physical

Seriously? Not always.

Definition of Body, Merriam-Webster

Body: noun
5: a group of persons or things: such as
a: a fighting unit : FORCE
// a body of cavalry
b: a group of individuals organized for some purpose
// a legislative body
// the university's student body

verb:
1: to give form or shape to : EMBODY

Embody.
1: to give a body to (a spirit) : INCARNATE

 

[for_his_glory]

Mary was a not God or a god not worshiped not offered sacrifice
Veneration and honor and images are biblical

So all those pics I posted of idol worshipping in the Roman Catholic Church are fake!!!

Seems to me when someone puts a crown upon your head and bows down before you is pretty much worshipping you.

How do you justify these pics of worshipping Mary, Dagon and Ra and grossly parading around a skull with a crown on it's head

 

[for_his_glory]

A body is physical

Have you never heard of a Spiritual body of believers in Christ? It has nothing to do with any particular church as in denominations/non-denominations. It is the first church/body that came to be on the day of Pentecost through the teachings of the Doctrines of Christ, Acts 2.

The Spiritual body of Christ are all those who are Spiritually born again from above and are indwelled with the Holy Spirit through the Baptism of Christ as they are one in Christ as He is the head of the body. John 3:5-7 Romans 10:9, 10; 12:3-8; 1 Corinthians 12:12-27; Ephesians 4:1-16, Colossians 1:18-19