Not so only honor and veneration
Worship involves offering sacrifice and adoration and propitiation
Christ and His church are one!
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Worship involves offering sacrifice and adoration and propitiation
And subject to the vicar of christ?
Peter and His valid successors are the vicar of christ, that sats something about Jesus not peter
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
We are not subject to the Pope as he calls himself the vicar of Christ claiming he is the "Holy Father". I don't care how many scriptures you use out of context as the fact is the New Testament Church was founded on Christ and the "confession of faith" that was revealed to Peter by the Holy Spirit. Roman Catholics say Peter was the first Pope and even this is a lie as who do you think it was that crucified Peter upside down on a cross per Peter's request to be upside down as he did not want to take away from the crucifixion of Christ.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
It wasn't Peter that the Church was built on, but Christ is the rock as being the foundation or cornerstone that the Church (the body of Christ) is built on and no where in scripture does it name the Roman Catholic Church as the one true Church or Protestant Church as the one true Church, but says in Acts 11:26 that the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch as Christ is the foundation of the true Church not made by hands. Acts 1:1-8; 2:1-4 the apostles were instructed to stay in Jerusalem until they received power from God and then they were filled with the Holy Spirit before they could start their journey of being witnesses of Christ to teach others about the kingdom of God through Christ.
There was no apostle greater than another as they all had the same anointing and taught others from their own individual witness of Christ and His teachings as being faithful servants, even as Christ was while here on Earth.
Luke 22:
24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
Matthew 8:14 shows that Peter was married and according to the Catholic belief a Pope can not be married so Peter could have never been the first Pope or ever had a procession of Popes after him. Peter never went to Rome to establish the Roman Catholic Church, but wrote his letters to those who were scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 1Peter 1:1.
Peter wrote his letters from Babylon (Babylon as being referenced in Rev 17 as the Great Harlot) as Peter spent the last years of his life in Rome as Rome at that time was described as a center of adultery. Peter wrote his letters to the Church (body of Christ and not a building made by hands) possibly around 64AD right before the full outbreak of Christian persecution by the hand of Rome's Nero. Paul's letters were also addressed to all who are beloved of God in Rome. Not the Roman Catholic Church, but those who were beloved of God established by that rock which is Christ Jesus and not Peter. The last chapter of the book of Romans Paul sends greetings to 27 members of the church (the body of Christ), but never mentions Peter. According to the tradition of the Catholic Church of Rome, Peter was there from 42 to 67 AD. Paul wrote the book of Romans around 58 AD. Now if Peter was in Rome from 42 to 67 AD that means by 58 AD that Peter should have been there for about 16 years. Not only that but the Catholic Church tradition tells us that he was the first Pope. Why didn't Paul acknowledge Peter in His writings as being the head of the Catholic Church (Pope) since he was addressing those who were beloved of God that lived there. The reason Paul didn’t mention Peter is because Peter wasn’t there. Peter was crucified by Nero prior to Nero's death in 68 AD. Why would Catholic Rome crucify their own Pope.
Galatians 2:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles.
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
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correct. Yeshua built his church upon Peters confession that Yeshua was the christ
noun
- the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
- show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Matt 16:17-19
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
You can’t give the keys or authority or power to a confession!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42
Acts 8
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send (the apostles) receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21-23 as the father sent me, so send I you. (The apostles)
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Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Matt 16:17-19
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
You can’t give the keys or authority or power to a confession!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42
Acts 8
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
God always establishes order in obedience to hierarchical authority of fathers! Heb 13:17
We must be taught by Christ, thru His church by the apostles, Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4
Lk 24:27 acts 8:30-31 thee faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Jn 20:21-23 as the father sent me, so send I you. (The apostles)
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When you kneel next to your bed to pray are you worshiping your bed? Solomon Bows down to his mother the queen 1 Kings 2:19
Deny glory to Christ, all the reverence, honor and devotion we give to Mary and the saints gives glory to Christ and ends in Christ, for it is His merits that makes them saints, the sun represents Jesus the son of justice, the moon and stars reflect his glorious light, Mary is represented by the moon, the stars for the saints!
Glorified in His Saints!
2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
This is what we are trying to get Bible to see that it was not Peter that Christ built His true Church on, but the confession of faith that was revealed to Peter by that of God's Holy Spirit.
This we can agree on as we are all disciples of Christ through the Spiritual rebirth and baptized in the Baptism of Christ for the receiving of the Holy Spirit whom He works in us and through us by that of God's Holy Spirit.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
No one is denying that. What we are telling you is that it is the foundation you are getting wrong. Peter is not the foundation. He is a pebble, not THE ROCK. The ROCK is Jesus, and the confession to the truth that He is the Christ/Messiah.
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession?
How can a confession choose what to bind and loose
God always establishes order in obedience to hierarchical authority of fathers! Heb 13:17
We must be taught by Christ, thru His church by the apostles, Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4
Lk 24:27 acts 8:30-31 thee faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Thanks for your understanding
I do not kneel before my bed. I kneel beside my bed (sometimes) but kneel before my God (who is everywhere). Usually when I pray I am not near my bed: I am driving, or shopping, or taking a walk in the woods, or typing messages on this forum. It is not the bed, or the computer, or the car (etc.) that is being honored. It is God to whom I am giving honor and glory.
When you say a "hail Mary", are you praying to God? Or to Mary? Obviously Mary, since it is her to whom honor is being given (not God).
When you bow down to a statue, are you worshipping God, or the statue before which you bow. (Please note that the statue is not of God. No man has seen God (since He is spirit), so no man could make a statue of Him.) Obviously it is the statue, and the person/image represented by the statue.
We do not bow down before the sun (even if it, in your mind, represents God), nor do we bow down before the moon, or Mary, or the saints, or any other image.
Finally, please note that all those who are members of the Body of Christ are saints. There is no Biblical distinction between "average" Christians and the uber-faithful, miracle working, evangelist. All are equally pure before God because all are equal recipients of Jesus' purity. Every worshipper who is saved is equally a "saint".
There is a change in subject between verse 18 and 19. In verse 18, Jesus is talking about the confession. But in verse 19, He switches over to talking about Peter and the Apostles role in spreading the Gospel. The confession is not being given any authority to bind or loose. And Peter is not being called the foundation of the New Testament Church.
Please show us the scripture for this as no one is to be reverenced, honored and bowed down to as our devotion is to the Lord, not a man or a woman.
1 Samuel 12:24; Matthew 23:8-12; Acts 10:34-43; Hebrews 5:7; 12:28-29; Ephesians 5:21
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