Christ applies redemption as well!

[brightfame52]

What is it about John 3:16-20 that you don't understand?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

If you believe then you are saved. When the final judgement comes then those who haven't believed are condemned.

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 isn't condemned, no sins charged to it. The world of 1 Cor 11:32 is condemned for its sins charged to it. Its impossible for a condemned world to be the world Christ died for.

 

[Quantrill]

Again, the world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a saved world, its saved from sins being charged to it. Its saved from its sins.

No. You are wrong. God reconciling the world to Himself does not put the world in a 'saved' position. It puts them in a position to be saved, just as it does the elect.

The 'elect' will take advantage of that reconciliation. The world will not.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Well the whole world of 2 Cor 5:19 is saved from its sins. God doesnt impute to it their sins, hence its saved and blessed Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This blessedness and imputation involves the man to whom righteousness is imputed also. You left that verse out.

(Rom. 4:6) "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works."

The imputation of righteousness is not the subject of (2 Cor. 5:19-20), as I said in post #(156)

Quantrill

 

[jaybo]

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 isn't condemned, no sins charged to it. The world of 1 Cor 11:32 is condemned for its sins charged to it. Its impossible for a condemned world to be the world Christ died for.

So there are two worlds?

1 Corinthians 11:27-32, " So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world."

2 Corinthians 5:16-21, " So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

There is one world that Christ died for (that we know of!). Those in the (one) world who don't accept Christ as their Savior will be condemned; those who accept Christ as their Savior will not be condemned, as their sins will not be counted against them (us!). But we all live in the same world, the one that God created.

John 15:19 has the best explanation, "If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." Notice that "world" is singular.

1 Samuel 2:8, "He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. “For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; on them he has set the world." [singular]

 

[brightfame52]

No. You are wrong. God reconciling the world to Himself does not put the world in a 'saved' position. It puts them in a position to be saved, just as it does the elect.

The 'elect' will take advantage of that reconciliation. The world will not.

Quantrill

The reconciled world doesnt have sin charged to it, its saved from its sins, that's an aspect of Salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

So there are two worlds?

1 Corinthians 11:27-32, " So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world."

2 Corinthians 5:16-21, " So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

There is one world that Christ died for (that we know of!). Those in the (one) world who don't accept Christ as their Savior will be condemned; those who accept Christ as their Savior will not be condemned, as their sins will not be counted against them (us!). But we all live in the same world, the one that God created.

John 15:19 has the best explanation, "If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." Notice that "world" is singular.

1 Samuel 2:8, "He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. “For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; on them he has set the world." [singular]

There is a saved world, and a condemned world.

 

[JLB]

My post #(136).


Your post #(140)


My post #(152).


There. I did the work for you. Observe our differences. No need for you assume anymore.

Quantrill

I don’t assume anything.


Im happy just to find common ground.

You seemed upset with me that I agreed with you.


Here is what you stated when I posted an amen to your statement.

Your cherry pickin and amenin of my posts is deceptive.

You do not agree with me. You simply tried to present a facade of something you can amen to.

If you have something in particular on any of your past posts, you would like to discuss, then please mention what it is.






JLB

 

[Quantrill]

quantrill



Yes it is the same thing, those whose sins are not imputed to them, automatically have Christs righteousness imputed to them.

David said it first Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Now when Paul quotes it, he gives the Holy Ghost interpretation Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

So its the same ones, those who dont have sin imputed, have righteousness imputed without works.

No, it's not the same thing. God's reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their sins to them is not the same as righteousness imputed to them.

For example, when Christ prayed to the Father to forgive those who were crucifying Him that day, that doesn't mean they had righteousness imputed to them. It just meant God the Father didn't come and destroy them immediately. Their sin was forgiven, not imputed to them. Doesn't mean they were saved.

Quantrill

 

[jaybo]

There is a saved world, and a condemned world.

There is one world, populated by those who believe in Christ and those who don't. "For God so loved the world..." (singular).

I won't debate this any further. Whichever world you choose is up to you. I live in this present world, waiting for the new heavens and new Earth.

Psalm 24:1, "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it, the world [singular], and all who live in it"

 

[Quantrill]

I don’t assume anything.


Im happy just to find common ground.

You seemed upset with me that I agreed with you.


Here is what you stated when I posted an amen to your statement.





If you have something in particular on any of your past posts, you would like to discuss, then please mention what it is.






JLB

Your 'agreement' with me is a facade. You don't agree with me unless you can pick a sentence here and there and distract from the opinion that sentence supported.

You asked for where we disagreed, and I showed you.

Now you ask of anything in particular of past posts. Well, I just showed you.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

The reconciled world doesnt have sin charged to it, its saved from its sins, that's an aspect of Salvation.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17


Do you believe the world that is unsaved, is reconciled to God?

 

[JLB]

Your 'agreement' with me is a facade. You don't agree with me unless you can pick a sentence here and there and distract from the opinion that sentence supported.

You asked for where we disagreed, and I showed you.

Now you ask of anything in particular of past posts. Well, I just showed you.

Quantrill

What specifically in post #136, #140, and #152 do you disagree with?


Listing post numbers is vague.


Why don’t you just state what it is you disagree with, specifically.


You have spent several posts now, just dodging thing, when writing out specifically what it is you disagree with.


It must not be important, or you would have done it by now.





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17


Do you believe the world that is unsaved, is reconciled to God?

I cant believe you asked that question. Haven't you been paying attention to what I have posted already ?

 

[Quantrill]

What specifically in post #136, #140, and #152 do you disagree with?


Listing post numbers is vague.


Why don’t you just state what it is you disagree with, specifically.


You have spent several posts now, just dodging thing, when writing out specifically what it is you disagree with.


It must not be important, or you would have done it by now.





JLB

How is listing post numbers vague? It shows where we disagree. Any who read them can tell. They are 'specific'.

Which makes your 'amens' of a phrase of mine here and there, very....empty. We do not agree.

Quantrill

 

[brightfame52]

No, it's not the same thing. God's reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their sins to them is not the same as righteousness imputed to them.

For example, when Christ prayed to the Father to forgive those who were crucifying Him that day, that doesn't mean they had righteousness imputed to them. It just meant God the Father didn't come and destroy them immediately. Their sin was forgiven, not imputed to them. Doesn't mean they were saved.

Quantrill

I have given you scripture, its up to God to cause you o believe. The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a blessed world without sin charged to it, and the righteousness of Christ laid to it. see 2 Cor 5:21

 

[jaybo]

I have given you scripture, its up to God to cause you o believe. The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a blessed world without sin charged to it, and the righteousness of Christ laid to it. see 2 Cor 5:21

You're using "world" in the singular!!

 

[brightfame52]

There is one world, populated by those who believe in Christ and those who don't. "For God so loved the world..." (singular).

I won't debate this any further. Whichever world you choose is up to you. I live in this present world, waiting for the new heavens and new Earth.

Psalm 24:1, "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it, the world [singular], and all who live in it"

Theres two worlds, one that doesnt have sin charged to it 2 Cor 5:19 and one that is condemned 1 Cor 11:32. Now there is only one planet earth world, but when it comes to the population, its two separate worlds. Its just like there are two different Israel's, Paul wrote Rom 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

How many Israels are mentioned here ? 1 or 2 ?

 

[brightfame52]

You're using "world" in the singular!!

I know, the world of 2 Cor 5:19 is a singular world. Thats written as plain as the noon day sun

 

[Quantrill]

I have given you scripture, its up to God to cause you o believe. The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a blessed world without sin charged to it, and the righteousness of Christ laid to it. see 2 Cor 5:21

The 'righteousness of Christ' in (2 Cor. 5:21) is only after the individual is 'reconciled to God' as said in (5:20) God, in reconciling the world to Himself made this possible.

The order is perfectly clear. Through the death and Resurrection of Christ, the world was reconciled to God. The offense of sin was removed. The way is open for any to come by only faith and be reconciled to God. Some individuals do come. Those are the elect. And righteousness is imputed to them. But the majority that make up the world, do not, even though God removed that offense.

Just because God removed sin as an offense between Him and the world, did not save the world. It afforded the world the opportunity to be saved.

Quantrill

 

[jaybo]

Theres two worlds, one that doesnt have sin charged to it 2 Cor 5:19 and one that is condemned 1 Cor 11:32. Now there is only one planet earth world, but when it comes to the population, its two separate worlds. Its just like there are two different Israel's, Paul wrote Rom 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

How many Israels are mentioned here ? 1 or 2 ?

Israel is not the world. Why are you trying to change the subject?