Christ applies redemption as well!

[GodsGrace]

We are sanctified by the Death of Christ !

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We know that Christ could not have died or has offered Himself for everyone with exception, simply because one the accomplishments of His Death or Offering [same thing] is that it [ The Death] sanctified forever those He died for !

That word sanctified means , they were set apart for a Holy Purpose of God, permanently !

The word sanctified in the greek is in the perfect tense which means :

Perfect

The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.

Jesus' last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI ("It is finished!") is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense, namely "It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely, once and for all time."


Those Christ died for have been sanctified once and for all time !


When an Elect sinner is born into this world, since Christ died for them over 2000 yrs ago, they are born as sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, children of wrath By Nature as others, enemies in their minds against God, however that said, they are perfectly set apart by God for a Holy Purpose to perform for God. Like Jeremiah Jer 1:5

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

But guess what ? Jeremiah was still born a sinner, by nature a child of wrath as others [Eph 2:3], an enemies to God in his mind by wicked works [Col 1:21]

So every elect sinner born into this world that Christ died for and consequently sanctified them for the Holy Purpose of God, must be born again to fulfill that purpose. It is inevitable, they must and all be born again by the Spirit, a Sanctifying Work of His 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Oh Yes, Like believers of the Truth today, so did Jeremiah need the same work of the Spirit to bring Him to Faith in the Truth ! So He could Preach the Gospel of Imputed Righteousness Jer 23:6

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

He had the same righteousness revealed to him by the Gospel as believers do today Rom 1:16-17

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now if everyone Christ died for does not come to experience the Sanctifying Work of the Holy Spirit as described in 2 Thess 2:13, Christ's death has failed its purpose of God. The Death of Christ alone has ensured and made certain the setting apart experimentally of each member, or person of His Body He died for, for each one has a Holy Purpose for God to perform 1 Cor 12 ; Eph 2:10

Now, If Christ died for these Matt 25:41 then they also had to be sanctified forever for God's Holy Purpose, which is absurd !

Hi Brightfame
Above you wrote:
********************

When an Elect sinner is born into this world, since Christ died for them over 2000 yrs ago, they are born as sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, children of wrath By Nature as others, enemies in their minds against God, however that said, they are perfectly set apart by God for a Holy Purpose to perform for God. Like Jeremiah Jer 1:5

************************

I just started looking at this thread again and would like it if you could explain the above.

If the elect were known from eternity past, then how could they be born lost?

Eternity means forever from beginning to end.
Was there a break in eternity somewhere along the line?

If there was, how is it eternity?

If there was no break and eternity was continuous, as it really is, then how could an elect baby be born lost? (He'd have to be born saved already).

Thanks.

 

[Quantrill]

Whenever you are ready to have a discussion about what you believe we disagree on, then please state what that is and the scripture that validates your perspective.

I won’t be going back through different posts to try and assume what it is we disagree on.





JLB

If you go back to the posts, you won't have to assume.

If you don't want to go back to the posts then don't. That's your decision to avoid. Not mine.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

You lost me. Listen to the scripture, the world in view in 2 Cor 5:19 they dont have their sins charged to them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

No, I didn't lose you. You just want to get away from what I said. Go back to post #(156).

I have no problem with (2 Cor. 5:19-20). I have a problem with what you're doing with it. As I explained in (156)

In other words, I have a problem with what you said.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Its a true statement because its a true achievement of His Death.

Of course, it's a true statement. Christ's death and Resurrection achieved what He wanted for the elect. But, it was achieved by Him dying for the sin of the whole world. Correct?

Quantrill

 

[Hopeful]

Negative, its fine and the truth the way its written.

I disagree, as those who are not reborn are not freed from sin.
They must first repent of all sin, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins before they can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Those Christ died for are not condemned,

Not anymore...thanks be to God.

Christ was condemned in their stead.

Had they not turned from darkness and unto the light, they would have remained condemned.

Both Christ and those He substituted for can be condemned for the same sins and law breaking, thats unjust which can never be with God, as it is written Gen 18:25

How much love must God and the Word made flesh have had for us that Jesus would bear out punishment.

That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

He did "right" for the repentant: that is for sure.
And I thank Him for it.

 

[brightfame52]

No, I didn't lose you. You just want to get away from what I said. Go back to post #(156).

I have no problem with (2 Cor. 5:19-20). I have a problem with what you're doing with it. As I explained in (156)

In other words, I have a problem with what you said.

Quantrill

Yes you did. And i know you have a problem with I said as it pertains to 2 Cor 5:19, the world there are folks with no sin charged against them.

 

[brightfame52]

Of course, it's a true statement. Christ's death and Resurrection achieved what He wanted for the elect. But, it was achieved by Him dying for the sin of the whole world. Correct?

Quantrill

No, is the whole world saved ?

 

[brightfame52]

I disagree, as those who are not reborn are not freed from sin.
They must first repent of all sin, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins before they can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Not anymore...thanks be to God.

Had they not turned from darkness and unto the light, they would have remained condemned.

How much love must God and the Word made flesh have had for us that Jesus would bear out punishment.

He did "right" for the repentant: that is for sure.
And I thank Him for it.

You can disagree. It doesnt change nothing. Those Christ died for, have no sins charged to them, regardless if they are born again or not, it has nothing to with new birth. It has all to do with the death of Christ.

 

[jaybo]

No, is the whole world saved ?

Yes, the whole world is saved. Jesus' death paid the price for all sin for all people for all time.

 

[jaybo]

I disagree, as those who are not reborn are not freed from sin.
They must first repent of all sin, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins before they can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Not anymore...thanks be to God.

Had they not turned from darkness and unto the light, they would have remained condemned.

How much love must God and the Word made flesh have had for us that Jesus would bear out punishment.

He did "right" for the repentant: that is for sure.
And I thank Him for it.

Regarding the first point...

Christ's death paid the price for all sin for all people. There is no requirement for repentance or baptism. All that is necessary is to believe in the Son.

John 3:16-18, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

Receiving the Holy Spirit isn't dependent on someone's behavior but on God's will. You can't earn the Holy Spirit; it is a gift.

Acts 2:1-4, "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."

 

[brightfame52]

jaybo

Yes, the whole world is saved.

Thats error my friend. There is a world that is condemned 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

That world is not saved !

 

[JLB]

If you go back to the posts, you won't have to assume.

If you don't want to go back to the posts then don't. That's your decision to avoid. Not mine.

Quantrill

You complain that we disagree.

I asked you to state where we disagree.

You direct me to go to our previous posts, yet you dont define what disagreement to look for.

Again I asked you to please state your point of disagreement.


You declined to do so, again, and now you claim I am "avoiding" ?


That is hilarious.


I needed à good laugh.

 

[Quantrill]

Yes you did. And i know you have a problem with I said as it pertains to 2 Cor 5:19, the world there are folks with no sin charged against them.

Pay attention. Here is what I said in post #(156).

Not so. That is exactly what (2 Cor. 5:19) says. God reconciled the world to Himself through the death of Christ. That doesn't make the world saved. Thus the further admonition in (2 Cor. 5:20), "be ye reconciled to God".

God has dealt with that which is offensive between Him and the world. Sin. But the world refuses to be reconciled to God.

Not imputing the worlds sins to them is not the same as having the imputed righteousness of Christ which comes by faith. It simply means the world is not immediately judged for their sins.

Quantrill

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

No, is the whole world saved ?

Of course the whole world isn't saved. No one is saying that.

Here again is my post #(156).

Not so. That is exactly what (2 Cor. 5:19) says. God reconciled the world to Himself through the death of Christ. That doesn't make the world saved. Thus the further admonition in (2 Cor. 5:20), "be ye reconciled to God".

God has dealt with that which is offensive between Him and the world. Sin. But the world refuses to be reconciled to God.

Not imputing the worlds sins to them is not the same as having the imputed righteousness of Christ which comes by faith. It simply means the world is not immediately judged for their sins.

Quantrill

Quantrill

 

[brightfame52]

Pay attention. Here is what I said in post #(156).



Quantrill

Again, the world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a saved world, its saved from sins being charged to it. Its saved from its sins.

 

[brightfame52]

Of course the whole world isn't saved. No one is saying that.

Here again is my post #(156).


Quantrill

Well the whole world of 2 Cor 5:19 is saved from its sins. God doesnt impute to it their sins, hence its saved and blessed Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

jaybo



Thats error my friend. There is a world that is condemned 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

That world is not saved !

It is not error.
You know how in the reformed faith you're forced to accept two totally opposing ideas?

For instance, it's taught that God determines everything, everything, that happens.
Including murder, sickness, and every sin man commits.

However, in some mysterious way, man is responsible for his sinning and not God.

We mere humans just have to accept this great mystery.

Well, salvation is not such a mystery.
Jesus died for the sins of the world. Just like john the baptist stated.
John 1:29

This was necessary because it gave ANYONE who WANTED salvation the opportunity to receive it. As stayed by Jesus Himself.
John 3:16
This is a prescriptive statement.

So, no mystery involved, except if someone just cannot accept God's free gift of salvation.

 

[Quantrill]

You complain that we disagree.

I asked you to state where we disagree.

You direct me to go to our previous posts, yet you dont define what disagreement to look for.

Again I asked you to please state your point of disagreement.


You declined to do so, again, and now you claim I am "avoiding" ?


That is hilarious.


I needed à good laugh.

My post #(136).

The elect speaks to persons concerning Israel, the Church, or angels.

Your use of 'also' in (2 Tim. 2:10) is misplaced. Paul is not saying others than the elect are also recipients of salvation. The 'also' speaks to the salvation Paul has experienced. Paul endured knowing his experience was important for the elect to experience also the salvation he did.

It is Paul's salvation compared to the elects salvation.

It is not...the elects salvation compared to non-elects salvation.

The elect, Jew or Gentile, are those who are guaranteed salvation through the marvelous work of God in redemption.

Quantrill

Your post #(140)

Paul is desiring that the elect, also obtain the salvation, like he himself and Timothy and the others that Paul is writing to are.

• that they also may obtain the salvation

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10



By saying “they” (the elect”) also may obtain salvation, its clear Paul doesn’t consider “the elect” as some special group of people who are guaranteed salvation, since Paul is desiring that they also may obtain salvation.


Paul uses the word elect here to refer to other Jews, his countrymen, that they also like he, may obtain salvation which is in Christ Jesus.


By saying “they also may obtain salvation” it’s very clear the elect he is referring to here, have not obtained salvation, which of course nullifies the concept that some have that says, “the elect are saved first, then they believe”.




JLB

My post #(152).

Indeed, Paul's emphasis is that the elect may also obtain the same said salvation that he has experienced.

No. There is nothing there to indicate Paul's 'elect' is just to other Jews. The elect covers both Jew and Gentile. Israel and the Church.

As I said before, the comparison is between the salvation of Paul and the salvation of the elect. Not between the elect and the non-elect.

Because the 'elect' are called the elect by God, then they 'are' a special group of people.

That the elect are saved first and then believe is not the point. That God has an elect who are guaranteed salvation is the point, which you disagree with.

Quantrill

There. I did the work for you. Observe our differences. No need for you assume anymore.

Quantrill

 

[jaybo]

jaybo



Thats error my friend. There is a world that is condemned 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

That world is not saved !

What is it about John 3:16-20 that you don't understand?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

If you believe then you are saved. When the final judgement comes then those who haven't believed are condemned.

 

[brightfame52]

quantrill

Not imputing the worlds sins to them is not the same as having the imputed righteousness of Christ which comes by faith. It simply means the world is not immediately judged for their sins.

Yes it is the same thing, those whose sins are not imputed to them, automatically have Christs righteousness imputed to them.

David said it first Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Now when Paul quotes it, he gives the Holy Ghost interpretation Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

So its the same ones, those who dont have sin imputed, have righteousness imputed without works.