Christ applies redemption as well!

[brightfame52]

I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do!

Jn 17:4

4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

What was the Work ? it was Twofold, to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Both to seek and to save are infinitive verbs, actions Christ must do, works He must do !

Folks it is a Lie to teach that Christ came to make saving possible or to make seeking possible. For if He did not seek that which was Lost, He failed His work and it was incomplete, and if He did not save that which was Lost, He failed His Work and it was not finished but incomplete !

The Father sent Him for that specific purpose Jn 10:36

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

1 Tim 1:15

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

This is the same aorist infinitive to save as in Lk 19:10

The question you and I must answer honestly today is if Christ really finished the work the Father gave Him to do , that is, did He seek and save all of the Lost that the Father desired to be sought and to be saved 1 Tim 2:4; Jn 6:37-40. Was Jesus Christ 100 % successful in seeking and in saving, all for whom the Father had a pleasure to be sought and to be saved ?

 

[brightfame52]

I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do! cont

Was Jesus 100 % successful in seeking and saving all for whom the Father had a Pleasure to be saved. Folks, if Christ did not seek and save all that the Father wanted to be sought and to be saved, then Christ failed and He lied when He said " I have finished the WORK which thou gavest me to do" There is no other way to put it. The Antichrist followers tell us that Christ only made salvation Possible or Available, but if that was true, then Lk 19:10 would be false !

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 7:22

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Gen 44:32

For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.

Those who are born into this world as sinners by nature, whom Christ was made a Surety for, they have no indebtedness to God's Law, they are born as sinners, as enemies by nature and children of wrath, with all their sins forgiven because they had been charged to Christ !

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's Death God-ward accomplished much for those He died for before they ever believe in Him. For example, That which the elect are by nature as other men, children of wrath Eph 2:3, Enemies Rom 5:10, enemies in their minds by wicked works Col 1:21, yet because of Christ's finished work for them, they are not the objects of God's Wrath, not ever, but only objects of His Mercy. You see, with them, their sinfulness by nature only constitutes them what God afore ordained, Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

All the Legal condemnation that they deserve along with others, the vessels of wrath, theirs has been effectively dealt with by the Cross of Jesus Christ, for He died for all their sins in the flesh. Even after the New Birth, that Old Man that they remain in, and what carries the New Man, it still is very sinful, because it was born out of corruptible seed, the fallen Adam. Their sin nature of adam is not eradicated, but is still alive and well in the Saint of God, for that is Paul's argument in Rom 7 and Johns point in 1 Jn 1:8. However that Old Man with all of its deceitful lusts is still the object of God's mercy, David said as a New Creature Ps 130:3

If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?126

But that Old Man born out of Adam shall experience an Adoption, a Salvation in the Day of Redemption, Paul calls it The Redemption of the Body, this Body of Death Rom 7:24 cp Rom 8:23, so this Body and its deeds can never be under God's Legal Condemnation and Wrath, His Fatherly Chastening, Yes, but never wrath and condemnation.

The Sinful Bodies of the Saints, that did incur condemnation in Adam Rom 5:18, but it [The merited condemnation] was imputed to Christ's Charge, their Surety and Head, and He came Legally and imputatively under God's Wrath and Condemnation for them, in their stead, so not at anytime are they condemned by God's Law, but to the contrary are made objects of mercy, Mercy and Condemnation does not mix !

So the Elect are Blessed and privileged above others who are born sinners, for they had no Surety !

 

[brightfame52]

It Brings Forth Fruit, New Birth !

Jn 12:24

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

1 Pet 1:23,3

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It was a manifest established principle from the beginning, that God ordained that a seed reproduces its Kind:

Gen 1:11,12

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Jesus is that corn of wheat that shall fall into the ground and die, and hence bring forth fruit of its kind ! In other words Jesus Christ is a Seed Gal 3:16; Gen 3:16 and God ordained this method for Him to bring forth fruit after His Kind, to die !

This is how the Second Adam was to be fruitful and Multiply after His Kind !

Its like one solitary seed of a Tree, its put into the ground, it undergoes death, a decomposition [ not in a putrefying sense, but in a breakdown of component sense] and then germination, and so it begins to Grow into a Tree of many roots, twigs and branches, and leaves and fruit after its Kind ! Where did it all come from ? That One Seed that fell into the ground and Died ! Through that Death of that Seed comes Life to its seed 1 Pet 1:3, 23.

Folks the Death of Christ results in Life, not a possibility of Life, not a Offer of Life, but it begets us into a Lively Hope. That word Lively is the greek word zaō and means:


to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead)

2) to enjoy real life

a) to have true life and worthy of the name

b) active, blessed, endless in the kingdom of God

3) to live i.e. pass life, in the manner of the living and acting

This is an Accomplishment of the Death of Christ Jn 12:24

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Fruit here would be Living converts ! His Death Produces Converts, Fruit, People after His Kind, Christians !

To deny this is to deny everything about the Cross of Christ and its Power. If anyone Christ died for does not become a Christian in the True sense of the Word, His Death failed its purpose !

 

[JLB]

That which the elect are by nature as other men, children of wrath Eph 2:3, Enemies Rom 5:10, enemies in their minds by wicked works Col 1:21, yet because of Christ's finished work for them, they are not the objects of God's Wrath, not ever, but only objects of His Mercy.

Christ died for the world.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17

• but that the world through Him might be saved

The “elect” is a term in scripture that mostly refers to the Jews.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

• for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus

Do you believe Jesus Christ died and shed His blood for just the Jews?


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Who do you believe is excluded from the phrase “the whole world” ?







JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for the world.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17

• but that the world through Him might be saved

The “elect” is a term in scripture that mostly refers to the Jews.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

• for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus

Do you believe Jesus Christ died and shed His blood for just the Jews?


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Who do you believe is excluded from the phrase “the whole world” ?







JLB

Post 124 did you understand it ?

 

[brightfame52]

More on Rom 4:25

Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Jesus Christ's Death on the Cross has completely satisfied all of God's Righteous requirements on behalf of those He died for, in that they are Justified, made right with God through Jesus Christ, His Death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now His Resurrection proves that God's Law and Justice has been satisfied by Christ's Death and that All concerned are hereby Justified or absolved [remission of sins]because of what Christ has done for them Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Everyone that Christ has died for, no matter what, no matter that they are born by nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, their Justification and remission of sin before God through Jesus Christ Death is a completed fact forever Heb 9:12. The word redemption in this verse means deliverance from the penalty of sin, which equals Justification ! This fact just is not known to the redeemed, until it is revealed by the Spirit through the Gospel, for the Just shall live by Faith. In other words this Free Gift of Justification that they have through the Merits of Christ Alone, shall be made known to them by the Spirit in due time 1 Tim 2:6, for since they are made Just or righteous by Christ's obedience alone [Rom 5:19] they shall and must live by Faith, So in God's Time they are given a new Birth by the Spirit, and given as a Fruit of the Spirit, Faith to receive the Gospel Revelation of their Justification, and Praise God for His Grace ! The Justification they have that was evidenced by Christ's Resurrection shall be made known to them !

 

[JLB]

Post 124 did you understand it ?

More on Rom 4:25

Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Jesus Christ's Death on the Cross has completely satisfied all of God's Righteous requirements on behalf of those He died for, in that they are Justified, made right with God through Jesus Christ, His Death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now His Resurrection proves that God's Law and Justice has been satisfied by Christ's Death and that All concerned are hereby Justified or absolved [remission of sins]because of what Christ has done for them Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Everyone that Christ has died for, no matter what, no matter that they are born by nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, their Justification and remission of sin before God through Jesus Christ Death is a completed fact forever Heb 9:12. The word redemption in this verse means deliverance from the penalty of sin, which equals Justification ! This fact just is not known to the redeemed, until it is revealed by the Spirit through the Gospel, for the Just shall live by Faith. In other words this Free Gift of Justification that they have through the Merits of Christ Alone, shall be made known to them by the Spirit in due time 1 Tim 2:6, for since they are made Just or righteous by Christ's obedience alone [Rom 5:19] they shall and must live by Faith, So in God's Time they are given a new Birth by the Spirit, and given as a Fruit of the Spirit, Faith to receive the Gospel Revelation of their Justification, and Praise God for His Grace ! The Justification they have that was evidenced by Christ's Resurrection shall be made known to them !

None of your posts deal with this question.



Please answer the simple question that I asked, so we can discuss your beliefs about who can be saved.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Who do you believe is excluded from the phrase “the whole world” ?








JLB

 

[brightfame52]

None of your posts deal with this question.



Please answer the simple question that I asked, so we can discuss your beliefs about who can be saved.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Who do you believe is excluded from the phrase “the whole world” ?








JLB

You are evading my points.

 

[Quantrill]

Christ did die for the sins of the whole world. That is clear. (1 John 2;2)

There is an elect. That is also clear. Not just of Jews. But also the Church. (Eph. 1:4) (1 Peter 1:2) (1 Peter 2:9) And, also the angels. (1 Tim. 5:21)

These two things are true. Diminishing either, doesn't prove the other.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

You are evading my points.

I have read your points and now, because I have read them, I’m asking you a question so we can understand you more clearly.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Who do you believe is excluded from the phrase “the whole world” ?

 

[JLB]

Christ did die for the sins of the whole world. That is clear. (1 John 2;2)

There is an elect. That is also clear. Not just of Jews. But also the Church. (Eph. 1:4) (1 Peter 1:2) (1 Peter 2:9) And, also the angels. (1 Tim. 5:21)

These two things are true. Diminishing either, doesn't prove the other.

Quantrill

The “elect” is a term in scripture that mostly refers to the Jews.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

• for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus

What we see here is Paul plainly desires that “the elect” may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus.


From this we can conclude that the Apostle Paul does not use the term “elect” to refer to some sort of “guaranteed salvation” for some special group of people, Jews or otherwise, as we plainly see he desires the elect to also obtain salvation through Jesus Christ.






JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Jn 17:1-3

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

If Christ has not given Eternal Life to each person given to Him by the Father, then He has failed to Glorify the Father, yet many who claim to be sent ministers of Christ, teach that many Christ died for, many of those given to Him by the Father, will receive Eternal Damnation and the Second Death !

 

[brightfame52]

I have read your points and now, because I have read them, I’m asking you a question so we can understand you more clearly.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Who do you believe is excluded from the phrase “the whole world” ?

Do you care to discuss them ? Thats why I made the points, to discuss them, not to evade them into discussing something else.

 

[Quantrill]

The “elect” is a term in scripture that mostly refers to the Jews.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

• for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus

What we see here is Paul plainly desires that “the elect” may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus.


From this we can conclude that the Apostle Paul does not use the term “elect” to refer to some sort of “guaranteed salvation” for some special group of people, Jews or otherwise, as we plainly see he desires the elect to also obtain salvation through Jesus Christ.






JLB

The elect speaks to persons concerning Israel, the Church, or angels.

Your use of 'also' in (2 Tim. 2:10) is misplaced. Paul is not saying others than the elect are also recipients of salvation. The 'also' speaks to the salvation Paul has experienced. Paul endured knowing his experience was important for the elect to experience also the salvation he did.

It is Paul's salvation compared to the elects salvation.

It is not...the elects salvation compared to non-elects salvation.

The elect, Jew or Gentile, are those who are guaranteed salvation through the marvelous work of God in redemption.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

brightfame52

Though there is the elect, Christ died for all. Correct?

Christ did come to save the lost. But not all born of Adam are lost. Correct?

Quantrill

 

[brightfame52]

brightfame52

Though there is the elect, Christ died for all. Correct?

Christ did come to save the lost. But not all born of Adam are lost. Correct?

Quantrill

Christ died for all He applies redemption to, thats my belief, and thats what Im proving with these posts.

 

[JLB]

Do you care to discuss them ? Thats why I made the points, to discuss them, not to evade them into discussing something else.

That’s why I asked you the question, so I could better understand your points and who you believe is excluded from the phrase “the world”.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


Can you explain what people are excluded from the world?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Your use of 'also' in (2 Tim. 2:10) is misplaced. Paul is not saying others than the elect are also recipients of salvation.

Paul is desiring that the elect, also obtain the salvation, like he himself and Timothy and the others that Paul is writing to are.

• that they also may obtain the salvation

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10



By saying “they” (the elect”) also may obtain salvation, its clear Paul doesn’t consider “the elect” as some special group of people who are guaranteed salvation, since Paul is desiring that they also may obtain salvation.


Paul uses the word elect here to refer to other Jews, his countrymen, that they also like he, may obtain salvation which is in Christ Jesus.


By saying “they also may obtain salvation” it’s very clear the elect he is referring to here, have not obtained salvation, which of course nullifies the concept that some have that says, “the elect are saved first, then they believe”.




JLB