Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.

[CherubRam]

Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.

Christ Pre-existed.
John 6:41
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”

John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Yahshua is a created being.
Before Christ was born into this world and became known as Yahshua, he was called Peniel in Heaven.

 

[Paul Timothy]

The "i" in Proverbs is referring to wisdom and not Christ.

 

[Elteqay]

Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.

Christ Pre-existed.
John 6:41
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”

John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Yahshua is a created being.
Before Christ was born into this world and became known as Yahshua, he was called Peniel in Heaven.

Why is Wisdom in the feminine in Proverbs 8:1,2,and 3 ?

 

[WIP]

The "i" in Proverbs is referring to wisdom and not Christ.

Thank you. I was about to post the same thing. We need to take the whole of Scripture and not pull verses out of context.

 

[WIP]

Why is Wisdom in the feminine in Proverbs 8:1,2,and 3 ?

Why is God most often referred to in the masculine? Does God have a gender?

We often use a gender form when referring to things including inanimate objects. I've often referred to an automobile in the female gender. Does an automobile have a gender?

I think in many cases we, men in particular, use the female gender as a term of endearment. It doesn't necessarily mean the object is female.

 

[Free]

Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.

Christ Pre-existed.
John 6:41
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”

John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Yahshua is a created being.
Before Christ was born into this world and became known as Yahshua, he was called Peniel in Heaven.

Just a reminder that according to the ToS and the rules of this forum:

All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.
Info on copyrights can be found at BibleGateway - Available Versions
This is not just a request, it's the law.
https://christianforums.net/threads/forum-policies-and-rules.75477/#post-1452665

This is especially important when you quote verses such as John 8:58.

It's also worth noting that by ignoring John 1:1 (and vv. 2-3), is to take the rest of what John says about Jesus out of context. This is often a problem with proof-texting--it can end up ignoring some evidence, or, as in this case, the vast majority of evidence.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

 

[Elteqay]

Why is God most often referred to in the masculine? Does God have a gender?

We often use a gender form when referring to things including inanimate objects. I've often referred to an automobile in the female gender. Does an automobile have a gender?

I think in many cases we, men in particular, use the female gender as a term of endearment. It doesn't necessarily mean the object is female.

The Hebrew words are feminine or masculine.

 

[CherubRam]

Just a reminder that according to the ToS and the rules of this forum:

All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.
Info on copyrights can be found at BibleGateway - Available Versions
This is not just a request, it's the law.
https://christianforums.net/threads/forum-policies-and-rules.75477/#post-1452665

This is especially important when you quote verses such as John 8:58.

It's also worth noting that by ignoring John 1:1 (and vv. 2-3), is to take the rest of what John says about Jesus out of context. This is often a problem with proof-texting--it can end up ignoring some evidence, or, as in this case, the vast majority of evidence.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

My quotes are mostly NIV.

 

[CherubRam]

Why is God most often referred to in the masculine? Does God have a gender?

We often use a gender form when referring to things including inanimate objects. I've often referred to an automobile in the female gender. Does an automobile have a gender?

I think in many cases we, men in particular, use the female gender as a term of endearment. It doesn't necessarily mean the object is female.

Language Gendering is associated with Paganism.

 

[CherubRam]

This is my translation of this verse.
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”

 

[Randy]

Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.

Christ Pre-existed.
John 6:41
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”

John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Yahshua is a created being.
Before Christ was born into this world and became known as Yahshua, he was called Peniel in Heaven.

Where Jacob wrestled with God Jacob named that location Peniel for He had seen the face of God yet His life was spared and at that time God gave the name of Israel to Jacob.

Revelation 3:14 (KJV)

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

◄ Colossians 1 ►

New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him. 17He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

His Spirit - the fullness was gifted Col 1:19 and is also part of His being -
I would state the Son who was, His spirit, was in the body prepared for Him.

Orthodoxy has Jesus as the only begotten unbegotten Son from the Father alone.
Begotten from the Father before all worlds but not made. (I agree in part)

John used "only begotten" John 1:18

 

[Free]

This is my translation of this verse.
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”

That's what I thought, but you have yet to show that any of your translations are legitimate. This is really problematic when most translations say "before Abraham was born, I am;" it's why you didn't quote the NIV here.

 

[CherubRam]

Where Jacob wrestled with God Jacob named that location Peniel for He had seen the face of God yet His life was spared and at that time God gave the name of Israel to Jacob.

Revelation 3:14 (KJV)

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

​

◄ Colossians 1 ►

​

New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him. 17He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

His Spirit - the fullness was gifted Col 1:19 and is also part of His being -
I would state the Son who was, His spirit, was in the body prepared for Him.

Orthodoxy has Jesus as the only begotten unbegotten Son from the Father alone.
Begotten from the Father before all worlds but not made. (I agree in part)

John used "only begotten" John 1:18

Jacob saw a elohiym a (god of "The Living One.) That verse is not correctly translated.

 

[CherubRam]

That's what I thought, but you have yet to show that any of your translations are legitimate. This is really problematic when most translations say "before Abraham was born, I am;" it's why you didn't quote the NIV here.

Here is your proof:

Strong's Greek: 1510. εἰμί (eimi) -- I exist, I am

 

[Free]

Here is your proof:

Strong's Greek: 1510. εἰμί (eimi) -- I exist, I am

That actually proves that the translations are right and you are not:

"1510 /eimí ("is, am") – in the present tense, indicative mood – can be time-inclusive ("omnitemporal," like the Hebrew imperfect tense). Only the context indicates whether the present tense also has "timeless" implications. For example, 1510 (eimí) is aptly used in Christ's great "I am" (ego eimi . . . ) that also include His eternality (self-existent life) as our life, bread, light," etc. See Jn 7:34, 8:58, etc."

Of course, I don't know how you think simply providing a link to Strong's proves anything. That is a significant misuse of Strong's.

 

[JLB]

Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.

Christ Pre-existed.
John 6:41
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”

John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Yahshua is a created being.
Before Christ was born into this world and became known as Yahshua, he was called Peniel in Heaven.

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59


Jesus is YHWH; The LORD God.



JLB

 

[CherubRam]

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59


Jesus is YHWH; The LORD God.



JLB

At best the term (I am) is a profound statement of being. The problem with that is that it can apply anyone, and anyone can use that term. In Hebrew the term (I am) is AIT.

 

[CherubRam]

That actually proves that the translations are right and you are not:

"1510 /eimí ("is, am") – in the present tense, indicative mood – can be time-inclusive ("omnitemporal," like the Hebrew imperfect tense). Only the context indicates whether the present tense also has "timeless" implications. For example, 1510 (eimí) is aptly used in Christ's great "I am" (ego eimi . . . ) that also include His eternality (self-existent life) as our life, bread, light," etc. See Jn 7:34, 8:58, etc."

Of course, I don't know how you think simply providing a link to Strong's proves anything. That is a significant misuse of Strong's.

And your statement proves that you are

 

[CherubRam]

You guys are wasting my time, so I will say: Good Bye!

 

[JLB]

At best the term (I am) is a profound statement of being. The problem with that is that it can apply anyone, and anyone can use that term. In Hebrew the term (I am) is AIT.

Ill stick to the bible.

If you want to add or take away the meaning of words thats between you and the LORD.

Jesus is the LORD God of the Old Testament


JLB