Christian Beliefs

[seekandlisten]

Rather of trying to counter what you are putting forth as reference to Jesus being God, I'm going to try and go at it a different way. One thing I find in seeking the truth in Scripture is we have to take the bible off its pedastal and and put it in our hands so to speak. In other words when the bible is held up as being infallible and taken word for word and at times taken to be the direct words from God or Jesus we hold it in a way different light. If we take it as a resource for God to reveal himself through guidance of the Holy Spirit the relevancy of accuracy and historical evidence doesn't really matter and we are open to teaching. I don't know if that makes sense to you or not but i don't know how else to explain it. When we come to something in the bible we don't quite grasp do we go to mans interpretation or God's?? Aren't we to sit with Jesus on God's throne? Does that make us equal to Jesus, essentially God??

Here is something I would like you to try. Read the stories of Jesus life as he was nothing more than a man, just as human as me or you, born of an earthly mother and father, filled with the knowledge of God's Divine Plan. Follow this life of a very humble man seeking to only do God's will according to God's plan. Follow this man through this story right to the point of his death on the cross and the meaning of this mans resurrection. Make this man your friend, your brother, a relative, the key point being nothing more than a man. Put yourself there. If you can truly set your beliefs aside for a second and picture his life this way does it not bring a whole new meaning to the cross, the death of Jesus, and his ressurection and how this relates to mankind.

This is only a part of the whole revelation of God's Plan but it is the most important part for any person not an Israelite, the 12 tribes and their decendents, not the nation. I think this is the most important part to have a clear understanding of. The significance of the cross and its meaning i believe is what then determines ones beliefs.

 

[handy]

Seekandlisten, This was why I asked about what you believed about the bible. Because, every person I've ever come across that has denied the divinity of Christ, does not view the bible as infalliable in it's presentation of God's truth to us, and the bible clearly teaches the divinity of Christ.

It tends to happen when Hebrews 1:8-10 or John 1:1-14 are brought up. Because both texts make it amply clear that Jesus is indeed God the Creator. That is when the dialog turns to either "Jesus didn't make this claim Himself" (Oh, but He did) or "The bible is corrupted by man's opinions and you can't always trust what it says" or some variation of either thought.

Again, Hebrews 1:8 8But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER...

and John 1,14:In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God...and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Cannot get clearer than that, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God.

Therefore, in order to defend the position that Jesus is not God, one has to disagree with the basic integrity of the Scriptures, to "take it off the pedastal" and not "worry" about accuracy or infalliablity.


I'm not wanting to sound disdainful here, and it's hard when dialoging via computers to present disagreement without sounding dismissive or disdainful, but truly I cannot disagree more with this statement:

"If we take it [the bibe] as a resource for God to reveal himself through guidance of the Holy Spirit the relevancy of accuracy and historical evidence doesn't really matter and we are open to teaching."

Again, not to sound arrogant, but I am not interested in being taught from sources that are believed to be inaccurate and historically incorrect but yet are supposedly from God. Generally, anything that is supposed to be from God, yet has many inaccuracies and historical "bloopers" in them, tend to be from men trying to sound like God and generally leads to cults.

I also disagree with the implied (and perhaps you didn't mean to imply this) idea that one isn't open to teaching if one holds the Bible as God's infalliable and inerrant truth. Most of the wisest and humblest people I know, the one's that are very open to teaching by the Holy Spirit are those who have the bible both "on the pedastal and in their hands.

"Here is something I would like you to try. Read the stories of Jesus life as he was nothing more than a man, just as human as me or you, born of an earthly mother and father, filled with the knowledge of God's Divine Plan. Follow this life of a very humble man seeking to only do God's will according to God's plan. Follow this man through this story right to the point of his death on the cross and the meaning of this mans resurrection. Make this man your friend, your brother, a relative, the key point being nothing more than a man. Put yourself there. If you can truly set your beliefs aside for a second and picture his life this way does it not bring a whole new meaning to the cross, the death of Jesus, and his ressurection and how this relates to mankind."

The thing about trying this is that it brings me to a point of worship that is not in Spirit and in truth. To deny that Jesus is God does indeed bring a whole new meaning to the cross, but all kinds of new meanings brought to the cross doesn't mean that there is any truth in the meaning. Nor, does the new meaning become more wonderful, awesome and magnificent than the true meaning of the cross is, that is that God, Creator of Heaven and earth, emptied Himself and died on my behalf.

 

[handy]

Sorry if my posts are lengthy. They get that way when I add a lot of Scripture, but I do like to add the Scriptures.

Also, if we are to believe that Jesus is not God, then we have an irreconcilable conflict in the Scriptures as to who the Savior is, God or a man.

Is God the only Savior?

Jesus does not have to be God to be a Savior. His father gave Him power and authority to be Savior of the world.

[quote:3i02ovin]"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Savior... Jude 1:12

God our Savior. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Savior. I Timothy 4:10

God my Savior. Luke 1:47

Or is a man, even such a man as Jesus?

The same as the above. Without God the Father, there is no Savior.

...and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world." John 4:42

Here is Jesus speaking: "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47

What does this have to do with what we are talking about.?

We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14

And, here is Peter, who was one of the ones closest to Jesus when He walked here on earth: "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:" 2 Peter 1:1

There are many more texts, texts where it is either Jesus speaking or others speaking of Jesus that point to Jesus being both God and Savior.

Not so. Your quotes are still not many and they are not even talking about Jesus being equal with His Father.[/quote:3i02ovin]

Breaking this down, I must disagree that we can say, God is the only Savior, but He gave Jesus the power and authority to save. The key word there being only. The way you are looking at it, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that there are two saviors, God and Jesus.

Again the text in Titus, "we trust in God who IS the savior." God is the Savior, not a man.
And that text in Isaiah, "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." Again, God isn't sharing His role as Savior with anyone here. He doesn't say, I will save you by sending you a savior, this man I've chosen for the job.

But, obviously we disagree here and it's probably not worth going round and round about. I could put forth a lot more scriptures regarding Jesus being our Savior because He is God, but I'd rather move on to one of your other posts.

 

[handy]

As far as Jesus' equality with God, Philippians 2:5-7 explains that Jesus humbled Himself, He Himself took on inequality in order to fulfill His mission here on earth:

Why does He have to humble Himself if He is equal with His Father? There is not even one verse God the Father being subservient to Jesus.

Not sure what your question is here. I've yet to see where anyone has stated that the Father is being subservient to Jesus. Quite the other way around, Jesus, being God the Son, humbles Himself before the Father. Perhaps you could clairify your question here, because I really don't understand it.

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men."

Of course Jesus' followers should humble themselves to both the Father and the Son because we are all under Jesus like Jesus is under His father.

I believe that you are missing my point in quoting the text. The point isn't that Jesus' followers humble themselves, (which I agree with you on, totally!) but that Jesus emptied Himself, and was made in the likeness of man. What does that mean to you: Jesus emptied Himself and was made in the likeness of man. Emptied Himself of what? What does it mean, "Jesus existed in the form of God"?

Again, when it comes to whether or not Jesus Himself believed that He was God, again, I cannot stress the importance of the fact that He accepted Thomas' worship of Him. There is no other person who walked this earth, who was a believer in the true God, that accepted the worship of man.

Again, this is one of very few verses you are holding onto to. Jesus' being under His Father out weigh way too many, friend.

Again, probably because I don't understand where you are coming from here, I'm not sure why Jesus, God the Son, humbling Himself before God the Father in anyway conflicts with the idea that Jesus is still, nonetheless God the Son.

I'm curious, and again, I don't want to sound disdainful here, but it sounds as though you write up all the verses that indicate that Jesus is humbled before the Father and all the verses that indicate that Jesus is God the Son and if your list that Jesus is humbled before the Father is longer, then you can dismiss all the texts that clearly state that Jesus is God.

There are texts, solid and many, that show that Jesus is God the Son. I'm not sure why you seem to be dismissing them.

 

[shad]

handy wrote;

Breaking this down, I must disagree that we can say, God is the only Savior, but He gave Jesus the power and authority to save. The key word there being only. The way you are looking at it, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that there are two saviors, God and Jesus.

God the Father is the source of salvation. Jesus is the most trusted Servant of His Father. And God used Him to save us.

Again the text in Titus, "we trust in God who IS the savior." God is the Savior, not a man.
And that text in Isaiah, "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." Again, God isn't sharing His role as Savior with anyone here. He doesn't say, I will save you by sending you a savior, this man I've chosen for the job.

The same as the above.

But, obviously we disagree here and it's probably not worth going round and round about. I could put forth a lot more scriptures regarding Jesus being our Savior because He is God, but I'd rather move on to one of your other posts.

Ok.

 

[seekandlisten]

handy,
I will agree to disagree with you in regards to whether Jesus is God or man. I will tell you I was raised on believing that Jesus was God for 19 years of my life, this involved parent's beliefs, church beliefs, and i also went to a private christian school my whole life so Jesus being God is not a new concept to me. I am 29 now and it wasn't until about 2 years ago that it hit me, and I have to have faith here that it was through God's guidance. Since then I have earnestly sought the truth and came to the realization that Jesus was nothing more than a man and the significance of this plan of salvation. In the last two years more has been revealed to me about God, Jesus, God's plan for our salvation through Jesus than I learned in the first 27 years of my life.

I can't make anyone see this truth or believe it. I can only present my experience if someone truly wants to learn they will seek and they will find. What they find is whatever God reveals to them through the Holy Spirit. My goal in my witness is to plant the seed. I believe true knowledge comes from a personal revelation through God. For instance someone could come read this thread and walk away either believing Jesus is God or Jesus is not God. Now if they came to this conclusion from reading either your or my thoughts on the matter is it anything more than blind faith?? I hope i was able to convey my thoughts in an understandable manner.

Just a point i want to make is you made that comment of me believing in 2 Saviours. This is incorrect as I believe Jesus is our Saviour by God's plan. Everything comes from God so He must be present in every aspect of our our spiritual journey if it is truly of God so to speak.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I enjoyed this conversation we had. God bless.

 

[RND]

First, I do not believe in the Trinity and I have not found a rational logical reason to believe otherwise.

The water is the laver in front of the Tabernacle represents what to you? When the Bible tells us in Genesis 1:2 that "... the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" doesn't his indicate that God has a "Spirit"? After David was caught and found out regarding his sin against God regarding the incident with Bathsheba and pleaded to God in Psalms 51:11, "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me" what "Holy Spirit" was David referring to?

The second being is being saved by grace and not works?? Well I believe we are saved by grace shouldn't works follow suit??

Like Forrest Gump would say, "They go together like peas and carrots." We are indeed saved by grace and not works but our works are evidence of our faith and the grace we have embraced. It has to be noted, stressed in fact, that without Jesus Christ we can do nothing (John 15:5) and all our righteousness is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

"Christ for our sakes became poor, that we through His poverty might be made rich. And any works that man can render to God will be far less than nothingness. My requests are made acceptable only because they are laid upon Christ's righteousness. The idea of doing anything to merit the grace of pardon is fallacy from beginning to end. "Lord, in my hand no price I bring, simply to Thy cross I cling." -- Faith and Works (1979), page 24, paragraph 2, Ellen G. White

We need . . . to bring the light and grace of Christ into all our works. We need to take hold of Christ and to retain our hold of Him until we know that the power of His transforming grace is manifested in us. We must have faith in Christ if we would reflect the divine character. . . . Faith in the Word of God and in the power of Christ to transform the life will enable the believer to work His works. -- God's Amazing Grace (1973), page 244, paragraph 3, Ellen G. White

 

[seekandlisten]

First, I do not believe in the Trinity and I have not found a rational logical reason to believe otherwise.

The water is the laver in front of the Tabernacle represents what to you? When the Bible tells us in Genesis 1:2 that "... the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" doesn't his indicate that God has a "Spirit"? After David was caught and found out regarding his sin against God regarding the incident with Bathsheba and pleaded to God in Psalms 51:11, "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me" what "Holy Spirit" was David referring to?

I don't know as the Tabernacle has anything to do with me unless I find out that I am a decendant of the 12 tribes of Israel. In Genesis 1:2 is tells me just that, that the Spirit of God moved on the waters. We can't describe God to my knowledge or comprehend Him as far as I know. How people describe Him in the bible is no more than there understanding of God in my opinion. As for David that is a different time and place so I can't honestly say. By today's standards it would be the Holy Spirit that resides in all of us who are true believers seeking God's Truth.

I don't diregard the Trinity based on who it contains. I don't deny that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exist. However, I don't believe they are all one person nor do I believe that Jesus was God.

 

[RND]

I don't know as the Tabernacle has anything to do with me unless I find out that I am a decendant of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Do you see Jesus in any of the Tabernacle service?

In Genesis 1:2 is tells me just that, that the Spirit of God moved on the waters. We can't describe God to my knowledge or comprehend Him as far as I know.

I asked "doesn't his indicate that God has a "Spirit"?"

How people describe Him in the bible is no more than there understanding of God in my opinion.

So then you don't believe the word of God is inspired by God? That explanation may have alot to do with why your understanding is so limited and compromised.

As for David that is a different time and place so I can't honestly say. By today's standards it would be the Holy Spirit that resides in all of us who are true believers seeking God's Truth.

So then you are open to the idea of the "Holy Spirit" indwelling the faithful believers of Jesus Christ?

I don't diregard the Trinity based on who it contains. I don't deny that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exist.

If you do not deny that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exist then that alone is evidence that they do!

However, I don't believe they are all one person nor do I believe that Jesus was God.

[/quote] Well then your an antichrist.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Your spirit is not from God.

 

[seekandlisten]

Well I have no problem with people putting forth their beliefs in a constructive manner for the glory of the Body of Christ and also respecting those beliefs, I have no respect for personal attacks or judgement. I am definitely not the antichrist nor does Satan dwell within me or speak through me as this isn't the first time i've heard this. The conversation between you and me, RND, in relation to the Trinity or Jesus as God or man is done.

God bless.

 

[RND]

Well I have no problem with people putting forth their beliefs in a constructive manner for the glory of the Body of Christ and also respecting those beliefs, I have no respect for personal attacks or judgement.

No judgment has taken place. Comment were offered based on the comments you made. When you say that, "However, I don't believe they are all one person nor do I believe that Jesus was God" what are other people supposed to think? Christ Himself said He is God. He never denied He was God.

I am definitely not the antichrist nor does Satan dwell within me or speak through me as this isn't the first time i've heard this.

Brother, if this isn't the first time you've heard this then that might say more about you than the poeple saying this to you! This is so typical of today's behavior and willingness to accept responsibility in that we want to blame the messenger instead of hearing the message.

The conversation between you and me, RND, in relation to the Trinity or Jesus as God or man is done.

Hey, that is certainly your choice. Just remember that when I see you making statements that deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God I will challenge those comments.

 

[seekandlisten]

Well I have no problem with people putting forth their beliefs in a constructive manner for the glory of the Body of Christ and also respecting those beliefs, I have no respect for personal attacks or judgement.

No judgment has taken place. Comment were offered based on the comments you made. When you say that, "However, I don't believe they are all one person nor do I believe that Jesus was God" what are other people supposed to think? Christ Himself said He is God. He never denied He was God.

I believe Jesus was given God's Power. I believe Jesus died for our sins. I believe Jesus is the Saviour of the world. I believe Jesus was prophecied about. He is the Messiah. I believe Jesus is a man born of Mary and Joseph. Joseph is his biological father. I believe Jesus is the firstborn of the Sons of God. Is he divine?? Depends to what level. Is this belief system really that much different than yours??

I am definitely not the antichrist nor does Satan dwell within me or speak through me as this isn't the first time i've heard this.

Brother, if this isn't the first time you've heard this then that might say more about you than the poeple saying this to you! This is so typical of today's behavior and willingness to accept responsibility in that we want to blame the messenger instead of hearing the message.

With so many warnings of false prophets I believe even you would consider a word of caution here.

[quote:1ee4wq60]The conversation between you and me, RND, in relation to the Trinity or Jesus as God or man is done.

Hey, that is certainly your choice. Just remember that when I see you making statements that deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God I will challenge those comments.[/quote:1ee4wq60]

False assumption! I don't deny Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. I don't believe that he IS God.
I respond simply out of respect for you and your opinion. If you wish to discuss further with me I ask that we do it in the one on one forum under certain conditions. It really comes down to how I read and interpret Scripture. This is what the discussion in the 1 on 1 would detail rather than debate the fact of whether Jesus was God or not. Of course that fact would come into play, but not be the main point. It would mainly be a means of putting forth either side of how we read and interpret Scripture. I am open for a civil disussion without prejudice in a 1 on 1 setting if you so wish. I also ask that we both enter this with the mindset to learn rather than win.

 

[RND]

False assumption! I don't deny Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. I don't believe that he IS God.

That is a denial of Jesus Christ as the Messiah thus a denial that Jesus Christ is God.

For example when Jesus was tempted by Satan Jesus said, "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Jesus was being tempted by Satan so when Jesus said "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" Jesus was telling Stan that Jesus was His God.

I respond simply out of respect for you and your opinion. If you wish to discuss further with me I ask that we do it in the one on one forum under certain conditions. It really comes down to how I read and interpret Scripture.

And that's the problem. Scripture is able to interpret itself and does not need man. You sound exactly like the Mormon I spoke to last night.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

This is what the discussion in the 1 on 1 would detail rather than debate the fact of whether Jesus was God or not.

We need to establish who Jesus is. Jesus Christ is God. He said so Himself.

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Of course that fact would come into play, but not be the main point. It would mainly be a means of putting forth either side of how we read and interpret Scripture. I am open for a civil disussion without prejudice in a 1 on 1 setting if you so wish. I also ask that we both enter this with the mindset to learn rather than win.

Who's learning from whom?

 

[shad]

by handy;

I believe that you are missing my point in quoting the text. The point isn't that Jesus' followers humble themselves, (which I agree with you on, totally!) but that Jesus emptied Himself, and was made in the likeness of man. What does that mean to you: Jesus emptied Himself and was made in the likeness of man. Emptied Himself of what? What does it mean, "Jesus existed in the form of God"?

Jesus emptied Himself to be totally obedient to His Father to do His will.

Again, probably because I don't understand where you are coming from here, I'm not sure why Jesus, God the Son, humbling Himself before God the Father in anyway conflicts with the idea that Jesus is still, nonetheless God the Son.

He humbles Himself because He loves His Father.

I'm curious, and again, I don't want to sound disdainful here, but it sounds as though you write up all the verses that indicate that Jesus is humbled before the Father and all the verses that indicate that Jesus is God the Son and if your list that Jesus is humbled before the Father is longer, then you can dismiss all the texts that clearly state that Jesus is God.

Jesus' humbleness to His Father only proves He is not equal to His Father. Jesus knows His position.

There are texts, solid and many, that show that Jesus is God the Son. I'm not sure why you seem to be dismissing them.

I am not dismissing them. It seems the other way around that you are dismissing Jesus' statements about Him and His Father relationship

.

 

[seekandlisten]

False assumption! I don't deny Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. I don't believe that he IS God.

That is a denial of Jesus Christ as the Messiah thus a denial that Jesus Christ is God.

No, this is nothing more than you putting words in my mouth.

For example when Jesus was tempted by Satan Jesus said, "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Jesus was being tempted by Satan so when Jesus said "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" Jesus was telling Stan that Jesus was His God.

Who's Stan?? No, just kidding that was just in humor. When we are with God in our resurrected state are not the angels ministers to us according to Scripture. Would one not assume that the Sons of God are above the angels, Satan?

I respond simply out of respect for you and your opinion. If you wish to discuss further with me I ask that we do it in the one on one forum under certain conditions. It really comes down to how I read and interpret Scripture.

And that's the problem. Scripture is able to interpret itself and does not need man. You sound exactly like the Mormon I spoke to last night.

I agree with you 100% on that statement!! So you would say that me and the mormon you talked to are going to hell and you're not? If this is true is it not passing judgement that isn't yours to give.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Would this not indicate that people who hold the Scripture to nothing more than words and laws are leaving themselves open to all sorts of things??

[quote:3g5qkxpp]This is what the discussion in the 1 on 1 would detail rather th
an debate the fact of whether Jesus was God or not.

We need to establish who Jesus is. Jesus Christ is God. He said so Himself.

I disagree to the extent of these claims. That is man made claims as to the extent of Jesus divinity.

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Of course that fact would come into play, but not be the main point. It would mainly be a means of putting forth either side of how we read and interpret Scripture. I am open for a civil disussion without prejudice in a 1 on 1 setting if you so wish. I also ask that we both enter this with the mindset to learn rather than win.

Who's learning from whom?[/quote:3g5qkxpp]

Right now I'm learning through you believe it or not!

 

[RND]

No, this is nothing more than you putting words in my mouth.

Your own words used to facilitate my argument.

Who's Stan?? No, just kidding that was just in humor. When we are with God in our resurrected state are not the angels ministers to us according to Scripture. Would one not assume that the Sons of God are above the angels, Satan?

Our resurrected state? Has the resurrection occurred yet?

I agree with you 100% on that statement!! So you would say that me and the mormon you talked to are going to hell and you're not? If this is true is it not passing judgement that isn't yours to give.

Everyone goes to hell which is the grave and awaits there time for the resurrection. I am not at liberty to say whether you are lost or not - not my call.

Would this not indicate that people who hold the Scripture to nothing more than words and laws are leaving themselves open to all sorts of things??

On the contrary! It specifically states that the Bible can answer itself!

I disagree to the extent of these claims. That is man made claims as to the extent of Jesus divinity.

Well then you disagree with the plain meaning of scripture.

Right now I'm learning through you believe it or not!

Great! Outstanding! Have you ever read the Desire of Ages or the Great Controversy? If you haven't I would highly recommend them.

 

[Free]

Jesus emptied Himself to be totally obedient to His Father to do His will.

That still didn't answer handy's questions: "Emptied Himself of what? What does it mean, 'Jesus existed in the form of God'?"

 

[shad]

Jesus emptied Himself to be totally obedient to His Father to do His will.

That still didn't answer handy's questions: "Emptied Himself of what? What does it mean, 'Jesus existed in the form of God'?"

Jesus is Son of God and was sent by God to be the Lamb of God. so simple.

 

[Free]

Jesus emptied Himself to be totally obedient to His Father to do His will.

That still didn't answer handy's questions: "Emptied Himself of what? What does it mean, 'Jesus existed in the form of God'?"

Jesus is Son of God and was sent by God to be the Lamb of God. so simple.

shad,

So simple is right. handy asked two questions. What are the answers?

 

[seekandlisten]

No, this is nothing more than you putting words in my mouth.

Your own words used to facilitate my argument.

If you're implying that i'm trying to start an argument with you you are mistaken. I merely stated that Jesus is not God, plain and simple nothing more nothing less. To you this means all sorts of other things but to me it doesn't. I accept the fact that you believe Jesus to be God. I have no problem with that, but I don't share that belief. Can we agree on that?

Who's Stan?? No, just kidding that was just in humor. When we are with God in our resurrected state are not the angels ministers to us according to Scripture. Would one not assume that the Sons of God are above the angels, Satan?

Our resurrected state? Has the resurrection occurred yet?

Depends on your interpretation of the resurrection. Are we living in the 1000 year reign of Jesus? I can't answer that for you. One could assume that Jesus on the other hand being given God's Power understood his role and that Satan was no threat to him as he was beneath him? This is based on the original question in regards to an earlier post.

[quote:3sgo2rp5]I agree with you 100% on that statement!! So you would say that me and the mormon you talked to are going to hell and you're not? If this is true is it not passing judgement that isn't yours to give.

Everyone goes to hell which is the grave and awaits there time for the resurrection. TrueI am not at liberty to say whether you are lost or not - not my call. True

Would this not indicate that people who hold the Scripture to nothing more than words and laws are leaving themselves open to all sorts of things??

On the contrary! It specifically states that the Bible can answer itself!

That is not what it means to me. To state that the bible can answer itself is taking God out of the equation is it not and giving his role to the bible? Are we not limiting God and the Holy Spirit?Again this comes down to how I interpret Scripture.

I disagree to the extent of these claims. That is man made claims as to the extent of Jesus divinity.

Well then you disagree with the plain meaning of scripture.
Once again the plain meaning to you. Understand here that I'm not saying you are wrong. That is not my place. I firmly believe that God will reveal Himself as He sees fit and that He does this on a personal level. I accept the fact that you don't share the same belief as me as to the divinity of Jesus and how it effects your understanding of the Bible. How one interprets the bible is between them and God and of no concern to me.

Right now I'm learning through you believe it or not!

Great! Outstanding! Have you ever read the Desire of Ages or the Great Controversy? If you haven't I would highly recommend them.[/quote:3sgo2rp5]

I would assume those books line up with the doctrine that Jesus is God judging from your adament stance that that is the case. So I will politely decline. I offer again if you are truly interested in understanding how I interpret Scripture, I am more than welcome to oblige if you are willing to get past the fact that I don't share your belief that Jesus is God.