Christian haters

[destiny]

And so many people use this verse to hid behind so they can be complete jerks or hurt people and when they get called out on it, they cry out that its because everyone hates Jesus.

Its a nice little loop hole. No one can point out the real jerks without hating Jesus I guess.

... there are also an awful lot of jerks who don't use Jesus as an excuse, they are just plain jerks.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Christians are not against science, geology, or psychology.

I said some thank you.

Christians are against God being taken out of these areas.

He was never in these areas to start with. God is untestable. Anything that is untestable isn't science. Saying God isn't science isn't an attack. Ilts lke saying an apple isnt' a vegetable. It dosen't change that the apple is still an apple, its just not a vegetable. God is theology which is a form of philosophy, not science.

Christianity and science go hand in hand, when we recognize and invite God into it.

Not it dosen't, it actually causes cognitive dissonance and diesim.

Did you forget that some of the greatest minds of our time were Christians and Scientists?

Nope, its just irrelevant. Most of the people on your list where scientists before the birth of Big Band Theory, Evolution theory, atomic theory, Psychology, Cell Theory, Germ theory, and were followers of Alchemy and proto physics.

Science isn't a stationary field, it constantly adds new information. Newton didn't know about atomic theory, so when Einstein came around and showed the theory of relativity, it stumped Newton's ideas of physics.

Of course Christians are against the theory of Evolution! It's sole purpose is to remove God from the picture and then tell man he comes from a monkey.

No its not. The point of Evolution is to show how organisms have changed and adapted to their surroundings. that's it. Darwin was Inspired by Mendel's works in genetics and spent years Gathering data on the differences with species and how they adapt. With modern genetics and geology modern scientists have seen that Darwin was right about species changing and becoming new ones over time. With modern genetics we are able to trace our ancestry back to the point where we see where apes ( us and other great apes) Have diverged off from monkeys. That's it. Doesn't seem to be a God destroyer or the evil theory its made out to be dose it?

Well, monkey see monkey do. If you tell a man he is an animal he beings to act like one.

We act like animals because we are animals. Animals also have higher social archies just like us. So like like an idiot is not synonymous with being an animal.

LGBT's have had zero rights since the beginning of time. No pagan civilization has ever given rights to them. Gays were around during the glory days of Greece

No, pedophiles where around during the time of Greece. Pederasty is not the same as homosexuality. It was also a taboo to keep your slave boy when you became an adult. That's not homosexuality.,

why don't you get angry at the Greeks for denying them rights?

Because I live in the United States right now and am being treated unequally right now. Seems like a no brainier to me. Makes more sense to concentrate on whats in front of me, instead of events I can't change in the past.

You were a former Christian, right?

Yep.

Because the fact that you don't seem to grasp the understanding that Jesus Christ freed us from the Law makes me wonder if you truly believed in what you walked

I read the Bible cover to cover and helped out with a local youth group for years and did apologetics until I turned 16 defending my beliefs agaisnt nay sayers. The only reason you are questioning my sincerity is because I simply don't share the exact same ideas as you. Just because I had a falling out, dosen't mean I didn't' believe with all my heart until that moment.

away from. Jesus Christ's death freed us from the burden of those Laws. They were a witness and constant reminder before the eyes of Israel not to forget Him and His commandments. The purpose of those Laws was to pave the way for the Messiah who would remove the sin of the world. After, this was fulfilled we were set free.

Problem, Jesus didn't remove sin from the world. THere is still sin. All Jesus did was create a loop hole. Jesus also where we get the first Biblical mention of Hell. Jesus brought a deviding line where if you beleive he was teh messiah you got milk and honey. if you didn't, you would burn for all eternity. That's not exactly what I call love.

The OT is historic, poetic, parables, prophecies etc. The people of the OT were hard hearted and Jesus reveals this to us when He explains the reason Moses allowed divorce.

Care to share with us the quote where Jesus claims this? You know where Jesus claims that Moses didn't know what he was doing and that all their ancestors where evil? Want to share that?

The Lord allowed it for a certain period of time because of His mercy

Burning people for all eternity simply because they don't believe in him dose not sound like mercy. Destroying countless cities and allowing his people to rape, kill, and destroy in his name dosen't sound like mercy. It sounds like a way of rationalizing the past.

, but it was never His intention that it should stay that way.

Yeah, he made it worse. In the OT if you didn't believe in him or broke his laws he sentenced you to death and you ceased to exist. In the New testament you burn for all eternity.

This is a great insight into the hearts of the people of the OT.

No, actually reading the Old Testament lets us see their reasoning.

The Lord brought the Israelites out of captivity with miracles and huge signs and wonders...

After they stole tons of Gold and killed huge chunks of Egypts population and caused a massive drought and death of live stock.

7 days later they've forgotten all about it and complain against God for bringing them into the desert to die! Talk about a hard heart!

Sounds logical. You are talking about a huge group of people who had no idea what was going on and had very little survival skills. Then where left for 40 days to fend for themsleves while the learder went up a mountain.

How can you judge the ways of God in the OT with NT eyes?

Easily, God said he loved his chilldren. His chilldren destroyed in his name. God said he had a way for his chilldren to escape sin, but also added a massive worse penalty to those who didn't accept his new offer.

You have no idea what the people were like and what the time was like.

Neither do you, all we have is historical records. Which shows that the Jews where a xionistic group of nomads that where violent to outsiders until Rome captured Isreal and forced a tax on them.

Women were property because mankind made them property.

Nope, God did. It was his rules that claimed them as property. Its not man's fault if they obeyed God.

God only stepped in to bring fairness and regulations into their cold ways,

You mean revising his own rules which took until the late 1800 to the early 1900s to fully gain any kind of recognition in the first world?

knowing one day He would change their hearts through His Son.

yeah, he punished millions of people and then he divided that those millions had had enough, so he made new rules and now the millions are burning forever in Hell fire. But Their children get a free pass. Sound completely different' when you phrase it with what actually happened instead of down playing those that suffered.

As far as Paul making women less than. You have taken that verse out of context. A little research will tell you the true answer.

How about you post his words in context. Instead of just claiming I'm wrong. I've done the research. Now prove your position since you are making the claim that I missed it.

Some 150,000 people die a day around the world. Infants, babies, kids, teens, adults and the elderly. God is the author of life and death.

And I can point to thousands of other deities that do the exact same thing.

No one glosses over anything.

Yes they do. Most people are completely un aware of what the Old Testament actually says.

We understand the reasons why God commanded those things.

No, You've rationalized his behavior.

He had to bring forth a Savior.

Actually he dosen't have to do anything, He's God, why should he care?

He makes no apologies and gives no explanations in this matter.

Congratulations you just proved my point on why Skeptics don't like him. He dose what he wants because he wants to.

It seems silly to defend a perfect God to Mankind and it is. Man responsible for war, famine, murder, rape etc. The disease in mankind is horrendous.

God has demanded War, has created Famine, has ordered his own peopel to commit genocide, and sanctioned Rape in genesis, a nd God creates Plagues. You seem to want to define God as only doing good things and all things that seem bad go to man. I'm sorry, but read Genesis again.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

God never did things just because He could.

BOOK OF JOB. He did trials with Job to prove a point with Satan. He didn't have to, he just did.

The problem is your view on the world, the Church, Christians, and God.

I think the problem is that most people don't actually read their holy books, but are told what their books say and listen to apologetics instead of actual arguments.

Where the pagans any different than the Jews? Are the Muslims free of that curse? Christians?

Now you are shifting the blame. Sorry, but your rationalizing the actions of others just because others also did bad things is a no no.

Believers and Un-Believers alike suffer from that same disease. If a godless world were so perfect than Communism should be ruling it.

I don't think you understand human sociology at all. Who said the world is perfect? No one. WIth or without a God, nothing is perfect.

Unlike people of other faiths we're not ashamed of our God and the God of our Bible.

No belief system is ashamed of their God. The Muslims, vikings, hindus, Buddhists, etc. are actually quite proud of their God(s).

Using your worldly and intellectual eyes you see nothing but God's cruelty. Using my spiritual eyes I see nothing but God's love and mercy.

That's what logic calls denial. You rationalized god's behavior.

His mercy overflows to you and that's all I have for you.

Only if I get down on my knees and call him master and ignore everything else in the world. Otherwise He'll send me to burn forever.

You have been hurt by the Church.

Dirrectly and indirectly.

You feel like God has rejected and abandoned you and that He hates you.

Nope, actually I left the faith because I didn't believe in him anymore.

Whether you become a Christian again or not, I hope you find and make your peace with God.

It dosen't matter what my piece with God is if I don't become Christian, I'll burn in hell forever unless I'm a Christian.

The Church is not Christ. We are simply His imperfect Bride trying our best to love and support our perfect Bridegroom.

And?

I would like to apologize to you for every hurtful, angry word I've spoken against the LGBT community. For every time I mocked them and used derogatory words against someone like you, who walks in your shoes. Please forgive me. I am grieved by the pain you are in. All I can do is repent and plead for the Lord's mercy over how many LGBT people I turned away from the Love and Forgiveness of God. I bless you and your LGBT friends. I hope one day you can be healed from that pain that you're in.

you are forgiven.

I am not different than you or anyone else. How can I boast? I'm nothing but a sinner who was caught red handed and shown the hurt and pain my sins caused God and humanity. I can say I'm righteous and holy, but only because the Lord gives me His righteousness and holiness. There's nothing I can do within myself to set me higher above any man. The only difference between us is by the grace of God I've been forgiven.

Here's another reason I left Christianity. It turns people in self loathers. We make mistakes and we learn from them. It happens. Feeling like crap dosen't change anything. Actively trying to get better is what dose this.

 

[Drew]

Why some Skeptics hate Christianity --> The OT is filled with Rape, genocide, murder, Generational sin, a God that flip frops form hating us to loving us, Killing of chilldren, and women as property.

I think there is another way to look at this admittedly difficult issue.

It is true - God does order all these actions. However, I suggest that this may be because God had no choice but to do these things if He was going to rescue and restore His creation.

I am prepared to take this further if you (or anyone wants).

But for now, consider the analogy of chemotherapy. If you look at the "history" of a cancer patient, you may well see an interval of week or month where the doctors inject the patient with all sorts of toxic chemicals, causing great pain, suffering, and damage to the body.

Is the doctor evil? No. Of course s/he isn't evil. The doctor has no choice - to achieve the ultimate restoration of the person, the doctor must inflict such "suffering". I suggest something directly analogous is going on in the broad plan of redemption we see in the Bible - the evils of the OT were a necessary and unavoidable elements of what is ultimately a good plan for the redemption of creation.

 

[Ed the Ned]

In his book. "who are you to judge" - Erwin W Lutzer wrote the following.

"Why is the love of the world so serious? If we love sin, we not only love what God hates, we love what put Jesus on the cross." it later goes on to say.
"Satan does not respond to sweet reason: he does not play by the rules, so he will not go down without a fight. He wants to rule this world and have it drown in sensuality and rebellion. He is determined that we as Christians become unwilling partners with his agenda........... Perhaps the reason we think biblical standard is so high is that we have fallen so low"
Even some professing Christians are Christian haters as they dilute the gospel to elevate themselves in the relationship with God, and they do not acknowlege the soverignty and holiness of God.
If we accept ourselves as God then we can create our own truths to believe in. We are accountable to self and because we are accountable to self, being sinful, we follow Satans deception.

 

[theLords]

He was never in these areas to start with. God is untestable. Anything that is untestable isn't science. Saying God isn't science isn't an attack. Ilts lke saying an apple isnt' a vegetable. It dosen't change that the apple is still an apple, its just not a vegetable. God is theology which is a form of philosophy, not science. Not it dosen't, it actually causes cognitive dissonance and diesim. Nope, its just irrelevant. Most of the people on your list where scientists before the birth of Big Band Theory, Evolution theory, atomic theory, Psychology, Cell Theory, Germ theory, and were followers of Alchemy and proto physics. Science isn't a stationary field, it constantly adds new information. Newton didn't know about atomic theory, so when Einstein came around and showed the theory of relativity, it stumped Newton's ideas of physics.

It's a matter of perspective. There's no point in arguing science. We won't get any where.

We act like animals because we are animals. Animals also have higher social archies just like us. So like like an idiot is not synonymous with being an animal.

I'm not an animal. I'm a human being with a conscience born with the ability to understand right from wrong. I will teach my children the same thing. I won't allow them to think they are animals and give them a free pass to do whatever they like.

No, pedophiles where around during the time of Greece. Pederasty is not the same as homosexuality. It was also a taboo to keep your slave boy when you became an adult. That's not homosexuality. Because I live in the United States right now and am being treated unequally right now. Seems like a no brainier to me. Makes more sense to concentrate on whats in front of me, instead of events I can't change in the past.

You're missing the point that homosexuality has existed in each civilization. Not all Greeks were pedophiles. There were many who were homosexuals. Can I ask what rights you are being denied?

I read the Bible cover to cover and helped out with a local youth group for years and did apologetics until I turned 16 defending my beliefs agaisnt nay sayers. The only reason you are questioning my sincerity is because I simply don't share the exact same ideas as you. Just because I had a falling out, dosen't mean I didn't' believe with all my heart until that moment.

I'm not questioning your sincerity. I used to be exactly like you. I walked away from the Lord at 17. Now as a believer, I can see that I was missing something before.

Problem, Jesus didn't remove sin from the world. THere is still sin. All Jesus did was create a loop hole. Jesus also where we get the first Biblical mention of Hell. Jesus brought a deviding line where if you beleive he was teh messiah you got milk and honey. if you didn't, you would burn for all eternity. That's not exactly what I call love.

Jesus didn't come to remove sin from the earth. He came to take away it's painful consequences. (Saying things like this is the reason I wonder if you ever understood Christianity) Jesus died to save us from an eternity of hell. That is the epitome of Love.

Care to share with us the quote where Jesus claims this? You know where Jesus claims that Moses didn't know what he was doing and that all their ancestors where evil? Want to share that?

Please don't twist my words.

Here is the passage:

Matthew 19
Marriage and Divorce
*1 Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that He departed from Galilee and came to the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2 And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them there.
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a]them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

 

[theLords]

Burning people for all eternity simply because they don't believe in him dose not sound like mercy. Destroying countless cities and allowing his people to rape, kill, and destroy in his name dosen't sound like mercy. It sounds like a way of rationalizing the past.

As a former Christian, you should understand that there are 2 kingdoms the Kingdom of Christ and the Kingdom of Satan. It's not a matter of 'belief' it's a matter of acceptance. People reject God's mercy because they judge Him. What can He do?

eah, he made it worse. In the OT if you didn't believe in him or broke his laws he sentenced you to death and you ceased to exist. In the New testament you burn for all eternity

No one ceases to exist. The OT Jews believe in Hades. It's a temporary holding place. After the Great White Throne Judgement those who rejected Christ will all go to serve their master in his permanent kingdom.

No, actually reading the Old Testament lets us see their reasoning.

That's exactly what I said.

After they stole tons of Gold and killed huge chunks of Egypts population and caused a massive drought and death of live stock.

The Bible says the Egyptians gave their possessions over. (Are you purposely twisting the Bible? If you're quoting from other sources could you make it clear? You've done this a few times now)

Sounds logical. You are talking about a huge group of people who had no idea what was going on and had very little survival skills. Then where left for 40 days to fend for themsleves while the learder went up a mountain.

I'm talking about a huge group of people who witnessed the power of God. Who were led by Him through a visible cloud and fire presence. Who were fed each morning by God's own hand. Who were left under supervision when Moses left. And STILL rejected God. It's incredible! How is it possible? They had hard hearts.

Nope, God did. It was his rules that claimed them as property. Its not man's fault if they obeyed God.

No, but again why argue?

yeah, he punished millions of people and then he divided that those millions had had enough, so he made new rules and now the millions are burning forever in Hell fire. But Their children get a free pass. Sound completely different' when you phrase it with what actually happened instead of down playing those that suffered.

Do you even remember the love of God from your former life? Do you remember His acts of mercy and grace in your life? Do you remember the joy you had in knowing Him?

How about you post his words in context. Instead of just claiming I'm wrong. I've done the research. Now prove your position since you are making the claim that I missed it.

Why will my time and effort cause you to believe it?

Yes they do. Most people are completely un aware of what the Old Testament actually says.

Not all.

No, You've rationalized his behavior.

No, you are. But why argue?

Actually he dosen't have to do anything, He's God, why should he care?

Because He cares? Because He loves? You will never find an answer to satisfy this question.

Congratulations you just proved my point on why Skeptics don't like him. He dose what he wants because he wants to.

And you have proven mine.

God has demanded War, has created Famine, has ordered his own peopel to commit genocide, and sanctioned Rape in genesis, a nd God creates Plagues. You seem to want to define God as only doing good things and all things that seem bad go to man. I'm sorry, but read Genesis again.

Again, why argue?

BOOK OF JOB. He did trials with Job to prove a point with Satan. He didn't have to, he just did.

He did it to strengthen Job's faith. Job has provided inspiration and hope to generations of God's followers.

I think the problem is that most people don't actually read their holy books, but are told what their books say and listen to apologetics instead of actual arguments.

Not everyone. We all see the world with the lenses we choose to put on.

Now you are shifting the blame. Sorry, but your rationalizing the actions of others just because others also did bad things is a no no.

I'm not shifting the blame. I'm trying to prove that EVERYONE is guilty not just the Jews.

I don't think you understand human sociology at all. Who said the world is perfect? No one. WIth or without a God, nothing is perfect.

That's what logic calls denial. You rationalized god's behavior.

You missed these points entirely.

Only if I get down on my knees and call him master and ignore everything else in the world. Otherwise He'll send me to burn forever.

You get down on your knees and call science master. You let it dictate your views, your thoughts, your lifestyle, your choices, your judgement. You do the same with many other areas of your life. We are no different.

Nope, actually I left the faith because I didn't believe in him anymore.

Fair enough. But why did you stop believing? Your intellect told you too. But what did your heart tell your intellect to get it to stop believing?

It dosen't matter what my piece with God is if I don't become Christian, I'll burn in hell forever unless I'm a Christian.

If your eternity is hopeless don't you want a peaceful earthly life? One where you don't despise Christians/God every day?

Here's another reason I left Christianity. It turns people in self loathers. We make mistakes and we learn from them. It happens. Feeling like crap dosen't change anything. Actively trying to get better is what dose this.

Jesus Christ sets people free from self-loathing. Sin creates self-loathing. You're right feeling like crap doesn't do anything. Paul talks about this when he talks about worldly sorrow and Godly sorrow.

 

[destiny]

In his book. "who are you to judge" - Erwin W Lutzer wrote the following.

"Why is the love of the world so serious? If we love sin, we not only love what God hates, we love what put Jesus on the cross." it later goes on to say.
"Satan does not respond to sweet reason: he does not play by the rules, so he will not go down without a fight. He wants to rule this world and have it drown in sensuality and rebellion. He is determined that we as Christians become unwilling partners with his agenda........... Perhaps the reason we think biblical standard is so high is that we have fallen so low"
Even some professing Christians are Christian haters as they dilute the gospel to elevate themselves in the relationship with God, and they do not acknowlege the soverignty and holiness of God.
If we accept ourselves as God then we can create our own truths to believe in. We are accountable to self and because we are accountable to self, being sinful, we follow Satans deception.

Very true. The cross is getting harder to bear as the love of people approval grows more prevalent. God is revealing whose name we bear, Caesar or Jesus?

 

[LostSoul]

.

Any atheists or anti-christ people here who are Christian haters, or perhaps you know someone who hates Christians? I know this is a strong bad word to use but I actually met someone who hates Christians although I didn't get the chance to ask him why he hates Christians.


Why hate Christians ? ..... :verysad

I am likely to get a few feathers ruffled by my response here, so I apologize in advance.

However, I see hatred also pouring out of those who are supposed to be Christians. I feel that people are becoming more resentful and hateful towards one another whether it be over religion, gender, lifestyle or otherwise.

.....Then...I believe we all have our personal sins that we need to give to God and work on.....

Basically all I am trying to say here is that I have seen it go both ways. Have friends today who feel Satan is more loving than God because they were turned out of the church because of what they wore. if we are allowing our churches...the very houses of God to be reduced to this...what example are God's followers setting for those they are supposed to be showing God's love?

Not to say in the least that I have not seen....or been subject to persecution...I am just saying it goes both ways.

 

[sherri2]

No, the reason why so many Christians are against Big bang, Evolution, psychology, and geology is because it goes against a literal Bible translation.



Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Depending on the State, these people have less rights and are not equal to the rest of the population. Our constitution isn't the Bible.



You mean reread the rules in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers, plus the instances where Paul tells women directly that they are to remain silence to be below the man for their place is to be serving to them? According to the Old Testament, women are property, its laid out pretty fine in both the marriage and rape laws.



Did that, read the old testament and found out that God ordered his tribes to do allot of things that Many modern Churches tend to gloss over. Destroying entire cities killing all young and old, taking the women for yourself to defile. Blessed is he who throws their children against the wall, Stone all those that disobey thy law, etc.

How about you grow up and accept that sometimes God did things just because he could . The Jews where a xionistic nomadic people who fought amongst each other for thousands of years before Rome and Egypt took them over. They where constantly invading each other's tribes and killing each other, and the death penalty was the punishment for almost all of their laws and women where property. My sources are the OT.



Read Genesis and Exodus to a teenager and chase that with Kings 1. When you show people more then just the story of Moses, Noah, and Jesus, they tend to realize that Christianity/ Judaism is a violent religion. It had to be, They where competing with the Hindus, Pagans, and Zoroaster.

Dude, you troll. If you didn't I'd take the time to actually answer your claims.

I have no issues with genuine questions or seekers but absolutly no time for people who claim to be interested when they arn't.

 

[7th Poet]

alot of people will really not have any good reason or in some cases not even know why they dislike christians but you will get a few that feel we are arrogant an dislike our evangelic ways but really its a shame cuz the truth is to be stood up for no matter how someone feels. Some guy told me i was closed minded an i replied that the mind is like a mouth an it should close once you fill it with something nutritional! =p

 

[Mike]

Temporarily locking this thread pending mod review and clean up. There have been a few violations of key points in our ToS, specifically:

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