Christian; merely a label?

[Vic C.]

Some of you still aren't getting it. The Body is to be built up, not torn apart. I also see a lot of wrongly dividing the Bible, attributing that which was meant for the Hebrews and Jews and tacking it on the the New Covenant ekklesia. Please keep in mind that even though all the Bible is for us, not all of it is about us.

Lets get back to discussing the label of Christianity, not whether the church age is over or not, which according to the Bible, happens at Jesus' return and not sooner. Unless you are a preterist, then it never ends. LOL

 

[whirlwind]

Some of you still aren't getting it. The Body is to be built up, not torn apart. I also see a lot of wrongly dividing the Bible, attributing that which was meant for the Hebrews and Jews and tacking it on the the New Covenant ekklesia. Please keep in mind that even though all the Bible is for us, not all of it is about us.

Lets get back to discussing the label of Christianity, not whether the church age is over or not, which according to the Bible, happens at Jesus' return and not sooner. Unless you are a preterist, then it never ends. LOL

But...it is all about us. All of it. We are either of the tribes (house of Judah and house of Israel - Jew and Christian) or we are Gentiles that, upon belief become of Israel through adoption, or we are the heathen. Either way...it is all about us.

I do agree that the Body is to be built up but there are times the building requires a hammer and nails. :eyebrow

 

[Imagican]

Ok, how about this:

Which denominations ARE those that are able to righteously CLAIM to BE Christians?

As has been pointed out by numerous people, Christianity seems to MEAN so MANY different THINGS to the different denominations, which denominations ARE 'parts' of the TRUE Body and which are NOT?

Since this question is almost IMPOSSIBLE to answer, (due to political correctness that seems to be so important now days), how do we follow the 'gist' of this thread 'without' discussion concerning the different 'churches'?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

How about this:

A bum standing on the side of the road with his 'will work for food' sign in his hand. I couldn't tell you 'good folks' HOW MANY times I have been in the company of them that 'claim' to BE Christian, when I hand the guy a couple of bucks, those with me proclaim, "Why would you give that bum money? You KNOW he's only going to use it to buy drugs or alcohol." I can only shake my head in disbelief. From ALL that has been offered concerning HOW we are to 'WALK', how a 'Christian' could ask me WHY I would give to someone ASKING is BEYOND me.

I hear advice from CHRISTIANS concerning children and their families and I couldn't COUNT the times that I have heard this "TOUGH LOVE'' excuse for ABANDONING those that NEED our LOVE the MOST. And then adamantly DEFENDING their beliefs as if they have EVERY RIGHT to offer their Love CONDITIONALLY to those that they FEEL 'deserve it'.

Now, for those like THIS, feel FREE to 'step right IN' to this one. I would REALLY like to hear some scriptural evidence of HOW we are to LOVE and WHEN we are to DENY love.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Vic C.]

How about this:

A bum standing on the side of the road with his 'will work for food' sign in his hand. I couldn't tell you 'good folks' HOW MANY times I have been in the company of them that 'claim' to BE Christian, when I hand the guy a couple of bucks, those with me proclaim, "Why would you give that bum money? You KNOW he's only going to use it to buy drugs or alcohol." I can only shake my head in disbelief. From ALL that has been offered concerning HOW we are to 'WALK', how a 'Christian' could ask me WHY I would give to someone ASKING is BEYOND me.

What about this then,

You don't give them money but you do offer to buy them food. If they get angry and refuse, you know their intentions were not about food or water.

That's common sense.

But...it is all about us. All of it. We are either of the tribes (house of Judah and house of Israel - Jew and Christian) or we are Gentiles that, upon belief become of Israel through adoption, or we are the heathen. Either way...it is all about us.

From a Biblical theological perspective (which should be our concern) not all of it is about Christians, but is certainly there for us to use.

Who is/was the Day of the Lord about? How about the Time of Jacob's Trouble? Was the Exodus of the Hebrews out of Egypt about Christians? A decent study and course on Systematic Theology may clear this up.

 

[whirlwind]

How about this:

A bum standing on the side of the road with his 'will work for food' sign in his hand. I couldn't tell you 'good folks' HOW MANY times I have been in the company of them that 'claim' to BE Christian, when I hand the guy a couple of bucks, those with me proclaim, "Why would you give that bum money? You KNOW he's only going to use it to buy drugs or alcohol." I can only shake my head in disbelief. From ALL that has been offered concerning HOW we are to 'WALK', how a 'Christian' could ask me WHY I would give to someone ASKING is BEYOND me.

What about this then,

You don't give them money but you do offer to buy them food. If they get angry and refuse, you know their intentions were not about food or water.

That's common sense.

[quote:38jip8k6]But...it is all about us. All of it. We are either of the tribes (house of Judah and house of Israel - Jew and Christian) or we are Gentiles that, upon belief become of Israel through adoption, or we are the heathen. Either way...it is all about us.

From a Biblical theological perspective (which should be our concern) not all of it is about Christians, but is certainly there for us to use.

Who is/was the Day of the Lord about? How about the Time of Jacob's Trouble? Was the Exodus of the Hebrews out of Egypt about Christians? A decent study and course on Biblical Theology may clear this up.[/quote:38jip8k6]

The "Day of the Lord" is about us as is "Jacob's Trouble." The Exodus was about God's family coming out of Egypt. Part of that family are the tribes of Judah and Benjamin who are Jews, the house of Judah. The other part are the house of Israel and they have never been nor ever will be Jews as they are not of Judah. All are Jacob/Israel.

Jesus told us He was sent "but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." He found us. They/we are today's Christians. And, whether or not one does or doesn't believe the lost sheep are Christians isn't the point here for being of Israel is no longer by just blood lineage. Through adoption we....no matter what our lineage, are now ISRAEL. We are not Jews but we are of Israel.

The Day of the Lord and Jacob's Trouble pertain to US.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I decided to participate in this thread however, to do so cautiously. The reason? I accepted Christ and God only recently this April and I am by no means an "expert" nor do I proclaim to have all of the answers. What I can do is answer from my heart.

Being a Christian, for me, is not about a specific denomination. It is not about every mistake I have made or sin I have committed. It is not about my times living in perfection or through God's will. I guess what I am trying to say is that noone can be judged based upon an act in time nor can we be the ones to do the judging. Truly God will judge us based on the right and appropriate contexts of our lives regardless of the mistakes we might have made or the times we did not walk with God and Jesus??

A Christian to me embraces the following ideals (not meant to be an all inclusive list but I think these are the important points):

- Accept that Jesus is the son of God and died so that our sins would be forgiven / washed away in God's eyes.
- Accept that God is everywhere and in everything and in everyone.
- To give it your all to give your will / life to God and let him show you the way through prayer, critical thinking and introspection.
- To do your best to lead a life free of sin but to know you will slip up and when you do to ask for forgiveness.

In my mind, these are the most important things to embrace to be a Christian. Not the church you go to or even if you go to church at all. Not your demonination or lack of one. At the end of the day, all demoninations can be Christians if they embrace the basics and fundamentals. The rest are the details we all figure out as we make our journey through space and time.

From a new "Christian", these are my thoughts on the topic. Hopefully it all makes sense.

Aero out!

 

[whirlwind]

I decided to participate in this thread however, to do so cautiously. The reason? I accepted Christ and God only recently this April and I am by no means an "expert" nor do I proclaim to have all of the answers. What I can do is answer from my heart.

Being a Christian, for me, is not about a specific denomination. It is not about every mistake I have mad or sin I have committed. It is not about my times living in perfection or through God's will. I guess what I am trying to say is that noone can be judged based upon an act in time not can we be the ones to do the judging. Truly God will judge us based on the right and appropriate contexts of our lives regardless of the mistakes we might have made or the times we did not walk with God and Jesus??

A Christian to me embraces the following ideals (not meant to be an all inclusive list but I think these are the important points):

- Accept that Jesus is the son of God and died so that our sins would be forgiven / washed away in God's eyes.
- Accept that God is everywhere and in everything and in everyone.
- To give it your all to give your will / life to God and let him show you the way through prayer, critical thinking and introspection.
- To do your best to lead a life free of sin but to know you will slip up and when you do to ask for forgiveness.

In my mind, these are the most important things to embrace to be a Christian. Not the church you go to or even if you go to church at all. Not your demonination or lack of one. At the end of the day, all demoninations can be Christians if they embrace the basics and fundamentals. The rest are the details we all figure out as we make our journey through space and time.

From a new "Christian", these are my thoughts on the topic. Hopefully it all makes sense.

Aero out!

As one of no denomination that doesn't attend a building....I enjoyed your "thoughts."

 

[JoJo]

I also don't attend a building, though I would like to eventually find a good church. I was raised in church and I miss many aspects of it, though some aspects are undesirable and I don't miss those.

So here is something: If you think you are NOT deceived, why not go to the Lord and say: "Lord if I AM decieved in any way, would you please show me where and how. I really only want to walk in YOUR truth."

Thank you for this suggestion of prayer. I followed your advice and prayed this prayer and a few minutes later, while reading 2 Peter, I came across this verse: "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:17) This verse goes against some of the very basics of the teaching I've received my whole life.

I am at a point in my life where I am open to God's truth, the only truth, even if it doesn't fit with what I've always been taught. But I still have questions. As Vic suggested, perhaps not all of the Bible was written "about us" but as whirlwind pointed out, we are adopted into Israel.

It's very confusing. And I know that confusion is not of God so I will continue to pray for clarity and truth.

 

[stovebolts]

Christianity should never be considered as a label and as Vic has pointed out, the Body of Christ is very broad and diversified. After all, a hand is not a foot is not a nose is not a toe, but it all pulls together to form a body. An individual does not form the body, but rather the community of individuals that transcends time forms the body.

Just like music or other things shouldn't be labeled as "Christian" or non-Christian because honestly, there are a lot of "christian' books out there that aren't very 'christian' and in the same breath, I can think of many things that aren't labeled as "Christian" that hold good solid Christian values.

Funny thing is, in the first century, Christians identified themselves as being followers of "The Way" in reference to God's way to live which brings God glory. As a matter of fact, it was those in Antioch that were enemies with those who identified with "The Way" that came up with the label, "Christian" (Acts 11:26)

With that, I am proud to be identified with Christ while bringing Glory to God through "The Way" -

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Fembot]

[q

 

[Fembot]

You've brought up some good points.

My ex claims to be a Christian and says he has a relationship with Christ. BUT he lies, steals, cheats, and is totally wrapped up in the pursuit of money and material things. I don't want to doubt his Christianity, and I know we all sin. But sometimes I wonder if he were a true Christian, wouldn't he want to change his lifestyle? I keep waiting for the day when God finally sets him straight.

JoJo
I wasn't going to reply bc I felt as though Imag gave a great response.
Some people know exactly where they are stumbling. Yet they refuse to resist the temptation-they simply are not strong enough. Yes, we are all sinners. However, to purposely hurt someone who loves you is beyond my understanding. There is alot of bad influence out there. This is something I try to control and pay attention to, what is good for my soul and what is bad. I mean, I could marry a Christian and 10 yrs later find him stumbling in a major way. Nothing is guaranteed and nothing is above God. If you put your faith in Him and not men, he will bring you many blessings. It's hard to not want people to see Christ Love in you and return it. But just know that you always get what you need when you trust in Him. I do.

 

[JoJo]

Thank you for your thoughts, Fembot.

 

[Cornelius]

How about this:

A bum standing on the side of the road with his 'will work for food' sign in his hand. I couldn't tell you 'good folks' HOW MANY times I have been in the company of them that 'claim' to BE Christian, when I hand the guy a couple of bucks, those with me proclaim, "Why would you give that bum money? You KNOW he's only going to use it to buy drugs or alcohol." I can only shake my head in disbelief. From ALL that has been offered concerning HOW we are to 'WALK', how a 'Christian' could ask me WHY I would give to someone ASKING is BEYOND me.

What about this then,

You don't give them money but you do offer to buy them food. If they get angry and refuse, you know their intentions were not about food or water.

That's common sense.

[quote:37xjgqeh]But...it is all about us. All of it. We are either of the tribes (house of Judah and house of Israel - Jew and Christian) or we are Gentiles that, upon belief become of Israel through adoption, or we are the heathen. Either way...it is all about us.

From a Biblical theological perspective (which should be our concern) not all of it is about Christians, but is certainly there for us to use.

Who is/was the Day of the Lord about? How about the Time of Jacob's Trouble? Was the Exodus of the Hebrews out of Egypt about Christians? A decent study and course on Biblical Theology may clear this up.

The "Day of the Lord" is about us as is "Jacob's Trouble." The Exodus was about God's family coming out of Egypt. Part of that family are the tribes of Judah and Benjamin who are Jews, the house of Judah. The other part are the house of Israel and they have never been nor ever will be Jews as they are not of Judah. All are Jacob/Israel.

Jesus told us He was sent "but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." He found us. They/we are today's Christians. And, whether or not one does or doesn't believe the lost sheep are Christians isn't the point here for being of Israel is no longer by just blood lineage. Through adoption we....no matter what our lineage, are now ISRAEL. We are not Jews but we are of Israel.

The Day of the Lord and Jacob's Trouble pertain to US.[/quote:37xjgqeh]

You are right WW, although I think that few can see this.

People tend to read the letter and therefor cannot see the spirit. Its not replacement theology , and by the way, giving a name to something, does not make it wrong. Has anybody ever noticed how people create labels for things they disagree with. On another forum one guy use to add "cult" after anything that he thought was wrong. So if you did not believe in the pretrib, you are then part of the "Post Tribulation Cult" etc. So people who thought up "Replacement Theology" do the same. But they have no clue about what they are saying. The church never replaced Israel, but the church fulfills everything about Israel.

What happens to Israel, happens to the church. The Old Testament is one huge prophecy about the church.
People cannot see it, because God hides things and we have to search them out. This scriptures talks about the "kings" (Christians are kings in the Kingdom , because Jesus is the KING of kings) searching a matter out:

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

 

[sheshisown]

Let's consider where the term Christian came from.

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. Acts 11:26

How did the followers of Jesus ever become associated with the name Christian... I was married to an Armenian for 12 years. :o I found out something interesting about their names. have you ever noticed that all Armenians names end in... i-a-n or y-a-n? The ending ian at one time meant “the party of.†An Armenian whose name is Karadaghlian... that was my last name before I was widowed. Karagagh means Black Mountain referring to Mount Ararat and ian means of "the party of Ararat."

A Christ-ian was of “the party of Jesus.†Christians is sort of like saying “Jesus-ites,†or “Jesus People,†those of the group associated with Jesus Christ. :heart

Also, soldiers under particular generals in the Roman army would identify themselves by their general’s name by adding ian to the end. A soldier under Caesar would call himself a Caesarian. Soldiers under Jesus Christ could be called Christians. :armed

In Antioch, they probably first used the term Christians to mock the followers of Jesus. “Antioch was famous for its readiness to jeer and call names; it was known by its witty epigrams.†(Gaebelein)

But as the people of Antioch called the followers of Jesus the “Jesus People,†the believers appreciated the title so much that it stuck... because it was true. :D

As Christians we must be willing to take the title “Jesus People,†and must also be worthy of the name. Even within a culture where some no longer honor the name they carry. the title Christian was at first a slander, so it is today in the minds of some. Persecution and trials will thin away the mere name holders... who have no real relationship with Jesus in time.

Eusebius, the famous early church historian, describes a believer named Sanctus from Lyons, France, who was tortured for Jesus. As they tortured him cruelly, they hoped to get him to say something evil or blasphemous. They asked his name, and he would only reply, “I am a Christian.†“What nation do you belong to?†He would answer, “I am a Christian.†“What city do you live in?†“I am a Christian.†His questioners began to get angry: “Are you a slave or a free man?†“I am a Christian†was the only reply. No matter what they asked about him, he would only answer, “I am a Christian.†This made his torturers all the more detrmined to break him, but they could not, and he died with the words “I am a Christian†on his lips. (Eusebius, Church History)

I am proud to be named a Christian... :yes

bonnie

 

[JoJo]

:amen

 

[Cornelius]

I also don't attend a building, though I would like to eventually find a good church. I was raised in church and I miss many aspects of it, though some aspects are undesirable and I don't miss those.

So here is something: If you think you are NOT deceived, why not go to the Lord and say: "Lord if I AM decieved in any way, would you please show me where and how. I really only want to walk in YOUR truth."

Thank you for this suggestion of prayer. I followed your advice and prayed this prayer and a few minutes later, while reading 2 Peter, I came across this verse: "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:17) This verse goes against some of the very basics of the teaching I've received my whole life.

I am at a point in my life where I am open to God's truth, the only truth, even if it doesn't fit with what I've always been taught. But I still have questions. As Vic suggested, perhaps not all of the Bible was written "about us" but as whirlwind pointed out, we are adopted into Israel.

It's very confusing. And I know that confusion is not of God so I will continue to pray for clarity and truth.

Well you have started on a road that few others will find. You have a willingness to see when you are in error and that in itself will allow God to show you His ways . If you stick with this attitude and you keep on praying for HIS truth, you will soon find yourself on new ground, as God ALONE opens truth to you. (As you have seen that He is more than ready, because He answered you about one thing, right after you prayed ! )

But you must know that this knowledge comes with persecution. Those who will persecute you, will be your own brothers and sisters. Not many are prepared for this.

blessings
Cornelius

 

[JoJo]

Well, thank you for your support and encouragement, Cornelius. I will continue to search Scripture and seek the Holy Spirit's guidance for truth. :yes

 

[Sparkey]

Exodus 25:8 "And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them."
_________________________________
But how can this be? How can that which is produced by sinful man become a holy habitation for God?

Exodus 29:43 "And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by my glory."

Numbers 14:21 "But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD."

1 Kings 8:11 "...so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord."
_________________________________

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. (meaning "With us is EL" -or- "God with us")

The Prophets of the Old Testament were called "hoi christoi Theou", " -The Annointed of the Lord
(Ps. 105:15) "Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm."
_________________________________
Psalms 4:2 "How long, O you sons of men, Will you turn my glory to shame? How long will you love worthlessness and seek falsehood? Selah"
_________________________________
Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."
_________________________________
1 Corinthians 1:10; 12-13
Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ."
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
_________________________________
Revelation 21:3 "I heard a loud voice from the throne say, "See! God's Sh'khinah (glory) is with mankind, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and he himself, God-with-them, will be their God."
_________________________________

totopic

As we follow the anointing of the Holy Spirit we can rightly be said to be following Christ Jesus and not in name only, yes? Truly there is One God, One Faith, One Baptism, One Lord above all and One Way to the Father. Sure, there is some work left to be performed in us, the followers of Christ our Lord. Yet together we can look to the promise, that we can be One with the Father, even as Jesus was. Will our Father ignore the prayer of the Firstfruit of the earth, His only begotten Son? Will the will of God, the very purpose of God be thwarted?

I think no.

John, an Apostle of Lamb, wrote, quoting Jesus:
"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me."

We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. As we become zealous for the "House of God" that it be a "House of prayer" and stand together before Him, and according to His will -- we will be be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and rightly fitted to His purpose, yes?

 

[sheshisown]

:waving Hello all my brothers and sisters in Jesus~

I love calling you that... I love having my family in the Lord... how we need one another.

Looking into that scripture you brought up dear Jojo~ I found some solid encouragement, that I would like to share here.

I put the whole verses that go into one complete paragraph together so we can see all the context:

You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

This is a conclusion to Peter's letter all about living like a last days Christian... if you read the entire chapter you clearly see that. :nod We are instructed about several things... at the last here about living as holy and godly children of the Lord, living in anticipation of the end of this earth and the new created one to come. Remaining patient and not resenting the long delay of the Lord's coming, because it is salvation for others. :D

What is it that you and I Christian, know beforehand, before Peter reminds us of it? That people will make fun of us for clinging to our faith, and make carrying the name Christian~ sound foolish. For waiting for Him, for His Day~ for trusting that He will save us, and give us a new planet and universe to live in with our Lord forever. :nod

We are not to be led away with the error of the wicked (who refuse to trust Him and His promise). What can make us fall from our steadfastness? Lack of patient expectation, We must take care to keep abiding in Jesus.

We prevent a fall from your own steadfastness by a continual growth in grace and knowledge of Jesus.
Grace is not only the way God draws us to Him in the beginning. It is also the way we grow and stay in our steadfastness. :yes We can never grow apart from the grace and knowledge of our Lord, and we never grow out of God’s grace either. We must also grow in our knowledge of Jesus Christ. This means knowing more about Jesus, but more importantly, knowing Jesus in our personal relationship with Him. :shades

Can I add... Jojo~ that You have Jesus in you in a unique way to how He is represented in me. We are each a tiny light of His ways and love and goodness and grace etcetera... :D Yet without seeing you face to face, without knowing you in person... I will never be able to truly know you. We know Christ in this manner because his personage is inside of us... he is not absent from us or distant at all like we are from one another, yes? How close could you be to your children without daily contact?

We need contact with one another to truly fellowship. As you know, that is the way we are made as human beings. In order to touch your life, to be accountible to you and you to me for what and who we truly are, we must meet, face to face, regularly. That is the relationship of Jesus Christ in the Body of believers. We NEED each other. My sisters in Christ remind me of who I am in Him when I most need it. My time spent in church is a great place to gage my actions and attitudes out in the world. My sisters minister to me as much with their smiles and laughter and tears as with their words.:heart

Be certain dear sister to smile and laugh and cry with the blessed congregational fellowship of the saints. Especially in these last days. :nod bonnie