EricTheBaptist
Member
Pastor says Muslims are mislead Christians in a sense and they worship God to a point. They're an ABRAHAMIC religion look up what that means.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Christian/Muslim Debate
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
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felix
Guest
No. They don't worship God of Abraham. Ask them to call upon the name of God as 'God of Abraham' and they will call only 'allah'. Question them again, why not? You will get a surprising answer that 'God of Abraham' is a christian God and not their God.
I tried but failed many times to convince them to call God as God of Abraham because, if they call God as 'God of Abraham', it's a direct call to God in heaven.
EricTheBaptist
Member
Then the Muslim in my school lied. Because I got the exact opposite answer.
seekandlisten
Member
No I have not, nor would I want to. I also would not want to live in a Christian nation.
No I would not want that to happen. I'm also against certain Christian beliefs that deny women certain rights as well.
jasoncran
Member
funny, isreal does pretty much what you say, and are hated for that. i have a friend that is from palenstine and also lived in italy,(he lived in italy longer) and is now american. fluent in arabic/aramiac and italian and crude understanding of hebrew and farsi.
he is pro-isreal, believes in the right of isreal to exist by un mandate and also biblical. he and i(i joined in) posted those things on facebook. some of his muslim friends whether american or elsewhere dropped him as a friend. he told me that most muslims are taught to hate isreal.
given where he lived i tend to respect his views on islam as well he can read arabic and also has read the koran. i have asked him on islam a time or two. the only other person that i have more respect on that is former moderator here gabe. he has risked his life to bring the gospel to the muslims. and he is a former muslim.
he is pro-isreal, believes in the right of isreal to exist by un mandate and also biblical. he and i(i joined in) posted those things on facebook. some of his muslim friends whether american or elsewhere dropped him as a friend. he told me that most muslims are taught to hate isreal.
given where he lived i tend to respect his views on islam as well he can read arabic and also has read the koran. i have asked him on islam a time or two. the only other person that i have more respect on that is former moderator here gabe. he has risked his life to bring the gospel to the muslims. and he is a former muslim.
seekandlisten
Member
?? Sorry dude, I don't know what you mean?
jasoncran
Member
they allow freedom of religion and are against full sharia law.
within her borders is this
from here.Freedom of Religion in Israel - My Jewish Learning
within her borders is this
Adapted with permission from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
The question as to whether freedom of religion in all its aspects is adequately protected in any society can be answered by a careful examination of the relevant doctrines and practices of its legal system. There are significant sources for the protection of religious liberty in Israeli law. There have also been various efforts to incorporate religious norms or restrictions that reflect religious sources into the law of the land and an evaluation of these is part of any investigation of Israel's adherence to principles of freedom of conscience and religion.
Religious Liberty
The Palestine Mandate of 1922 [in which Britain controlled the area that is now considered Israel proper, territories under the Palestinian Authority, and Jordan] contained a number of provisions ensuring freedom of religion and conscience and protection of holy places, as well as prohibiting discrimination on religious grounds. Further, the Palestine Order in Council of that same year provided that "all persons ... shall enjoy full liberty of conscience and the free exercise of their forms of worship, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals." It also lays down that "no ordinance shall be promulgated which shall restrict complete freedom of conscience and the free exercise of all forms of worship." These provisions of the Mandate and of the Palestine Orders in Councils have been recognized in the Israeli legal system and are instructive of Israeli policy in safeguarding freedom of conscience and religion.
Dome of the Rock
in Jerusalem
Israel's Declaration of Independence, promulgated at the termination of the British Mandate in 1948, is another legal source that guarantees freedom of religion and conscience, and equality of social and political rights irrespective of religion. Although the Declaration itself does not confer any legally enforceable rights, the High Court has held that "it provides a pattern of life for citizens of the State and requires every State authority to be guided by its principles."
Freedom of Worship and Conscience
To support the fundamental existence of the right of freedom of conscience and religion, the courts have also relied on the fact that Israel is a democratic and enlightened state. In one significant court decision, Justice Moshe Landau stated:
"The freedom of conscience and worship is one of the individual's liberties assured in every enlightened democratic regime." In dealing with questions of religious freedom, as well as other human rights, the courts have also resorted to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Political and Civil Rights that reflect "the basic principles of equality, freedom and justice which are the heritage of all modern enlightened states." In doing so, the courts have required that two conditions be met: that the principle in question is common to all enlightened countries, and that no contrary domestic law exists. In this regard, Justice Haim Cohn has said:
"It is decided law that rules of International law constitute part of the law prevailing in Israel insofar as they have been accepted by the majority of the nations of the world and are not inconsistent with any enactment of the Knesset (Parliament). The principles of freedom of religion are similar to the other rights of man, as these have been laid down in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948, and in the Covenant on Political and Civil Rights, 1965. These are now the heritage of all enlightened peoples, whether or not they are members of the United Nations Organization and whether or not they have as yet ratified them. . . for they have been drawn up by legal experts from all countries of the world and been prescribed by the [General] Assembly of the United Nations, in which by far the larger part of the nations of the world participates."
Justice Landau also emphasized the right of freedom of conscience:
"Every person in Israel enjoys freedom of conscience, of belief, of religion, and of worship. This freedom is guaranteed to every person in every enlightened, democratic regime, and therefore it is guaranteed to every person in Israel. It is one of the fundamental principles upon which the State of Israel is based… This freedom is partly based on Article 83 of the Palestine Order in Council of 1922, and partly it is one of those fundamental rights that "are not written in the book" but derive directly from the nature of our state as a peace-loving, democratic state… On the basis of the rules--and in accordance with the Declaration of Independence--every law and every power will be interpreted as recognizing freedom of conscience, of belief, of religion, and of worship."
Israel's Supreme Court has not yet ruled squarely on the issue of the protection of religious liberty under the Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty. However, several decisions and other writings by some of the Justices indicate support for the view that the general right to human dignity protected by the Basic Law includes, inter alia, freedom of religion and conscience, which consequently has the status of a supreme, constitutional legal norm. Thus, for example, during the Gulf War, the Supreme Court ruled that when supplying gas masks, the government should endeavor to supply special masks for religious men who maintain beards out of religious conviction.
from here.Freedom of Religion in Israel - My Jewish Learning
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felix
Guest
Did you ask that Muslim to pray just once to 'God of Abraham' and not to mention 'allah'?
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felix
Guest
Did you ask that Muslim to pray just once to 'God of Abraham' and not to mention 'allah'?
Also, their quran says, they can lie for the sake of islam and allah.
Drummer4Christ
Member
Because the Qur'an teaches that Abraham worshipped Allah, not Yahweh.
Eric, would you agree that Jehovah Witnesses & Mormons do not worship the same God as the rest of Christendom?
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- New International Version unless noted otherwise
tessiewebb
Member
Someone said in an earlier post that he "treated the Muslims as people". Which brings me to this: Yes, of course. As a Christian I believe that God has given everyone two things, one: Free Will and two: a measure of faith. The first convinces me that God has love for every man, since He allows free will practice regardless if for evil or good. And that anyone and everyone can freely choose to do what they will. And we know they do.
Muslims, like Christians, were first human, born under Adam's curse, but created in the image of God. The Muslims chose to follow Islam. The Christians, called by God, chose God the Father by the workings of the Spirit in his or her life. The difference is, the Muslim chose not to heed the call of the true God. Whether out of ignorance, stubbornness, or simply following tradition, it remains they have not chosen the only Way to be reconciled to God.
Still, the call to worship something higher than ourselves must remain in those who choose to worship other gods. I believe that has to have something to do with the measure of faith Scripture says is given to every man.
So, the points that have been made about some Muslims being peaceable and others terroristic are true to a point. But you can be separated from God for eternity whether you are a peacekeeper or a terrorist.
If we truly loved our neighbor as ourselves, we would not easily let them go down to an eternity of separation from God by saying, "everyone has a right to their own beliefs". This is acting in complicity with the enemy of men's souls. So those who say the Muslim has a right to worship who and where and when he/she wishes are right and they are wrong. If their political correctness prohibits them from attempting to convince their "neighbor" that they must recognize Jesus as Savior or die in their sins, they are hating their neighbor.
An earlier post on this thread gave honor to one who risked his life to bring the gospel to the Muslim. Many of us will not risk even being thought intolerant! I say that brave one is a model for us all and I salute him.
Muslims, like Christians, were first human, born under Adam's curse, but created in the image of God. The Muslims chose to follow Islam. The Christians, called by God, chose God the Father by the workings of the Spirit in his or her life. The difference is, the Muslim chose not to heed the call of the true God. Whether out of ignorance, stubbornness, or simply following tradition, it remains they have not chosen the only Way to be reconciled to God.
Still, the call to worship something higher than ourselves must remain in those who choose to worship other gods. I believe that has to have something to do with the measure of faith Scripture says is given to every man.
So, the points that have been made about some Muslims being peaceable and others terroristic are true to a point. But you can be separated from God for eternity whether you are a peacekeeper or a terrorist.
If we truly loved our neighbor as ourselves, we would not easily let them go down to an eternity of separation from God by saying, "everyone has a right to their own beliefs". This is acting in complicity with the enemy of men's souls. So those who say the Muslim has a right to worship who and where and when he/she wishes are right and they are wrong. If their political correctness prohibits them from attempting to convince their "neighbor" that they must recognize Jesus as Savior or die in their sins, they are hating their neighbor.
An earlier post on this thread gave honor to one who risked his life to bring the gospel to the Muslim. Many of us will not risk even being thought intolerant! I say that brave one is a model for us all and I salute him.
EricTheBaptist
Member
Of course they don't worship God. And no I did not ask him to pray to God of Abraham. I believe they worship God but have some very wrong beliefs. Contrary to what they say they're a very violent religion built because Muhammad amassed an army to conquer.
Drummer4Christ
Member
But JW's & Mormons claim to be an Abrahamic religion as well, tracing their spiritual heritage to Isaac (where as Muslims trace back to Ishmael).
So, if all three religions not only claim an Abrahamic heritage but, also deny that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, how can you say that JW's & Mormons do not worship the same God as Christians yet Muslims do?
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- New International Version unless noted otherwise
Sinthesis
Member
Those who believe that Muhammad or Joseph Smith were true prophets of God know not what they worship, and do not worship in truth.
Jhn 4:19 - The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
Jhn 4:20 - Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Jhn 4:21 - Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Jhn 4:22 - Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Jhn 4:23 - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 - God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
Jhn 4:25 - The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Jhn 4:26 - Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [he].
Jhn 4:20 - Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Jhn 4:21 - Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Jhn 4:22 - Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Jhn 4:23 - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 - God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
Jhn 4:25 - The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Jhn 4:26 - Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [he].
T
TruthSeeker2012
Guest
You can never accuse a "Christian" committing a crime claiming they did it because Jesus had done it. Because Jesus' life does not contain any vile criminal acts, and as a Leader for Christians sets a perfect example to follow and how to live. But when it comes to Islam and Muslims committing crimes, they do so in justification that Mohammed, their leader, had done it, which he did, because any person who reads the biography of Mohammed will learn that his life was filled with criminal and very violent acts and pedophilia acts.
So this is why you see so many Muslims committing horrific crimes and smiling about them and cheering when innocent people die and praising Allah, because Mohammed had lived that way. And that is why you see so many old Muslim men marrying and having sex with young girls under the age of 10, because Mohammed had done it. So you cannot compare Christianity with Islam, and you cannot compare Jesus with Mohammed.
And what people must understand is that Jesus taught love and peace, but Mohammed taught war and killing until all religion is for Islam. This theology does not apply to just a few Muslims, but all of them. And the Muslims who are not committing crimes against others, don't do so because they have not "YET" understood what the Qu'ran really teaches. But once they learn it, then turn into terrorists too, so that is why whole Islam and all Muslims are so dangerous and walking time-bombs.
True Christianity is shown through the life of Jesus and how he lived his life.
You never saw Jesus molesting and raping young little girls like Mohammad did.
You never saw Jesus killing innocent people like Mohammad did.
You never saw Jesus commit evil and horrific crimes like Mohammad did.
You never heard Jesus teaching hatred like Mohammad did.
You show who you are by the person you choose to follow.
Choose Jesus and renounce evil pedophile Mohammad who was inspired by the Devil.
So this is why you see so many Muslims committing horrific crimes and smiling about them and cheering when innocent people die and praising Allah, because Mohammed had lived that way. And that is why you see so many old Muslim men marrying and having sex with young girls under the age of 10, because Mohammed had done it. So you cannot compare Christianity with Islam, and you cannot compare Jesus with Mohammed.
And what people must understand is that Jesus taught love and peace, but Mohammed taught war and killing until all religion is for Islam. This theology does not apply to just a few Muslims, but all of them. And the Muslims who are not committing crimes against others, don't do so because they have not "YET" understood what the Qu'ran really teaches. But once they learn it, then turn into terrorists too, so that is why whole Islam and all Muslims are so dangerous and walking time-bombs.
True Christianity is shown through the life of Jesus and how he lived his life.
You never saw Jesus molesting and raping young little girls like Mohammad did.
You never saw Jesus killing innocent people like Mohammad did.
You never saw Jesus commit evil and horrific crimes like Mohammad did.
You never heard Jesus teaching hatred like Mohammad did.
You show who you are by the person you choose to follow.
Choose Jesus and renounce evil pedophile Mohammad who was inspired by the Devil.
tessiewebb
Member
Oh, yes and AMEN!!! This post should put the politically correct into the silent room! I'm sending you a pm.
T
TruthSeeker2012
Guest
T
TruthSeeker2012
Guest
The crescent moon is everywhere in Islam. Even Ramadan begins and ends with the crescent moon. You want to know why? Because the origin of Allah is the MOON GOD!!!
Muslims don't realise that they worship a god that has never lived or existed but was just a made up and fake Pagan "moon god"
Muslims don't realise that they worship a god that has never lived or existed but was just a made up and fake Pagan "moon god"
Sinthesis
Member
Consider Islam as you read the following:
Think of Islam as a monotheistic idolatry, wherein imported false beliefs from a pagan moon cult corrupt what would otherwise be faith in the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Compare that to the polytheistic idolatry that corrupted the faith of the Northern Kingdom and Samaritans. The only real difference is a Muslim's graven image is, ironically, the Qu'ran; a book of words which produce in the mind a false image of God's nature.
2Ki 17:24 ¶ And the king of Assyria brought [men] from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed [them] in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.
2Ki 17:25 - And [so] it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, [that] they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew [some] of them.
2Ki 17:26 - Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.
2Ki 17:27 - Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.
2Ki 17:28 - Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.
2Ki 17:29 ¶ Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put [them] in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt.
2Ki 17:30 - And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima,
2Ki 17:31 - And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.
2Ki 17:32 - So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.
2Ki 17:33 - They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.
2Ki 17:34 - Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;
2Ki 17:35 - With whom the LORD had made a covenant, and charged them, saying, Ye shall not fear other gods, nor bow yourselves to them, nor serve them, nor sacrifice to them:
2Ki 17:36 - But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.
2Ki 17:37 - And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.
2Ki 17:38 - And the covenant that I have made with you ye shall not forget; neither shall ye fear other gods.
2Ki 17:39 - But the LORD your God ye shall fear; and he shall deliver you out of the hand of all your enemies.
2Ki 17:40 - Howbeit they did not hearken, but they did after their former manner.
2Ki 17:41 - So these nations feared the LORD, and served their graven images, both their children, and their children's children: as did their fathers, so do they unto this day.
2Ki 17:25 - And [so] it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, [that] they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew [some] of them.
2Ki 17:26 - Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.
2Ki 17:27 - Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.
2Ki 17:28 - Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.
2Ki 17:29 ¶ Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put [them] in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt.
2Ki 17:30 - And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima,
2Ki 17:31 - And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.
2Ki 17:32 - So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.
2Ki 17:33 - They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.
2Ki 17:34 - Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;
2Ki 17:35 - With whom the LORD had made a covenant, and charged them, saying, Ye shall not fear other gods, nor bow yourselves to them, nor serve them, nor sacrifice to them:
2Ki 17:36 - But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.
2Ki 17:37 - And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.
2Ki 17:38 - And the covenant that I have made with you ye shall not forget; neither shall ye fear other gods.
2Ki 17:39 - But the LORD your God ye shall fear; and he shall deliver you out of the hand of all your enemies.
2Ki 17:40 - Howbeit they did not hearken, but they did after their former manner.
2Ki 17:41 - So these nations feared the LORD, and served their graven images, both their children, and their children's children: as did their fathers, so do they unto this day.
Think of Islam as a monotheistic idolatry, wherein imported false beliefs from a pagan moon cult corrupt what would otherwise be faith in the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Compare that to the polytheistic idolatry that corrupted the faith of the Northern Kingdom and Samaritans. The only real difference is a Muslim's graven image is, ironically, the Qu'ran; a book of words which produce in the mind a false image of God's nature.
tessiewebb
Member
Makes sense. Do you think they would say the same about the Bible? Interesting Scripture you used.