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Christian/Muslim Debate

Mike

Mike

Member
This is going to be a tall order for those that can, and are willing to, invest the time. I'm posting the first part of an eleven part debate series from YouTube...

Anyone still around?...

Not all segments are 9+ minutes, but some are.

We've had a lot of discussion on Christian/Muslim issues, and I think this is very interesting to view since they are esteemed thought leaders in their faiths. I've watched it before and still find it fascinating to watch again. Representing the Christian side is William Craig Lane, highly regarded as one of the first and foremost debaters/apologists for Christianity. Opposed to him is Jamal Badawi, a former professor from St. Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia as well as author, speaker and preacher of the Muslim faith. (Wikipedia)

I'm not going to go into too much detail here until I know someone else is engaged, since this is a long series. I'll just say, WCL offers two major points that are in defense of the Christian faith and two major flaws he sees with the Muslim faith.

Christian:
1. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that Jesus considered Himself Divinely God.
2. There is sufficient support for His crucifixion and resurrection.

Muslim flaws:
1. God must be "all loving", and the Koran states that Allah "hates" sinners, those who don't do good, etc.
2. The Koran's account of Jesus is incorrect and goes against historical evidence.

I hope that some of you will give this a watch, even if you put it on another window and listen as you do other work. I'd like to discuss if anyone is willing to watch.

Very good!

"William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate (HQ) 1/11"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h51YwIMxtrQ
 
I dug through several of the remaining videos on this. In his rebuttal, Jamal Badawi dose not directly address what William Lane put out there in regards to the nature of Christ. He totally tap-danced around it and felt the need to explain what Muslims believe, to a largely Muslim audience.

In doing so, I started thinking about what it takes to believe Islam, to believe it is a true religion of God and to believe that it is "Part III", if you will, of the monotheistic religions. (first Judaism, then Christianity and then Islam to set the record straight.)

To get behind Islam you have to discount about a third of the Bible and you have to change the other two thirds to fit this new perspective.If God told Mohammad this, then he would have basically been telling him that the first several thousand years of history where not recorded properly. That does not seem like a very powerful God at all does it? Especially when we have so much archeological evidence to back up the record found in the old and new testaments. Muslims have to completely deny the facts or they have to be ignorant of the facts in order to embrace their belief as true. To do that, the religion is basically forced on the minds of millions of people and to do that it's used as a form of government.
 
Hi,

I would like to discuss on the christian evidences for the points you mentioned :

"
1. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that Jesus considered Himself Divinely God.
2. There is sufficient support for His crucifixion and resurrection. "

Could you please let me know the evidences for both the points? I've not gone through the youtube videos you posted.

But I, myself did some search on these topics for myself. I was a hindu, who reverted to Islam, chosen islam as my choice. In process of gaining knowledge, i was having a small confusion somewhere in my heart about Jesus (peace be upon him). Islam says Jesus (pbuh) is the messenger of God, Christians say that he was God, God's incarnation. So started reading the Bible, instead of listening to the people, and Bible confirmed me that Jesus taught Islam only. With out any doubt i realized what islam says about Jesus (pbuh) is true and morever the miracles of Quran provided the proof.

I'm not here to debate with you. It is just a friendly discussion. We learn from each other's knowledge. From my own research, i found that there is no strong evidence about the claims of chrisitans about Jesus (pbuh) . If you would like to discuss these points in separate thread (bcoz you want to discuss on you tube videos, which i'm not interested), please start a separate thread. I'm interested to discuss about these things.

Regards,
Aasiya
 
Ok. Here's what i believe about Islam. Ishmael was put out of Abrahams camp. As the older son he was entitled to the birthright but Isaac got it instead. Ishmael harbored a deep anger and resentment about this which festered through the generations until mohammed came along and decided to reclaim the birthright. He invented Islam as a copy of the Torah and the Scriptures but to suit his agenda.
The ultimate goal of Islam is to subjugate Judaism and Christianity. To re-assert the birthright.
 
Good topic. I will watch the videos and then check back in. One thing in favor of Christianity over Islam is how women and non believers are treated and viewed. As a woman, I much prefer the Bible's view.
 
Stephanie said:
Good topic. I will watch the videos and then check back in. One thing in favor of Christianity over Islam is how women and non believers are treated and viewed. As a woman, I much prefer the Bible's view.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Why would a religion from God be so moored (pardon the pun) in the middle ages? Is it coincidence that Arabs went from being the leaders in science and mathematics to being at practically a stone-age level?
 
I apologize to anyone who had responded, especially Danus who viewed the videos. This thread got lost in the shuffle by me, and I forgot about it. Lane stuck to his points and made some powerful lines in the sand in differentiating Christianity from Islam. As requested above, I'm not going to regurgitate evidence that was presented in the debate. If someone is interested enough to discuss it, he/she should be willing to spend a little time "doing some homework". It's not as though I'm putting up Christian propaganda. These are two world class thought leaders in their respective faiths, so it's a fair comparison to consider.

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone say they've read the Bible and come away with the conclusion that Jesus taught Islam. :confused: The evidence suggests, and logic suggests, that Jesus was in-fact crucified, did in-fact die, and did in-fact rise from the dead. The witnesses to his resurrection, the change in those who did witness it, and the point at which the world was changed forever makes this much more logical than the suggestion by Islam that He never really died.
 
walter said:
Ok. Here's what i believe about Islam. Ishmael was put out of Abrahams camp. As the older son he was entitled to the birthright but Isaac got it instead. Ishmael harbored a deep anger and resentment about this which festered through the generations until mohammed came along and decided to reclaim the birthright. He invented Islam as a copy of the Torah and the Scriptures but to suit his agenda.
The ultimate goal of Islam is to subjugate Judaism and Christianity. To re-assert the birthright.
Click to expand...

I think this too in many ways. I've never voiced it, because it does not seem totally fair in evidence, but I have had this exact thought.
 
Danus said:
I think this too in many ways. I've never voiced it, because it does not seem totally fair in evidence, but I have had this exact thought.
Click to expand...

I agree with you two. The Lord showed me that Islam was a religion of religion (good deeds to get brownie points with their god is their best hope of salvation!)

The Spirit of Religion rules the middle east and then the Lord told me his name... Ishmael! I was astounded, but it was as if a light was turned on in my head. Coincidentally, Ishmael also attacks the Church to bind it into religion.

I was struggling with the spirit of religion in my life (works over grace) and the Lord exposed all this to me in dreams and in prayer and set me free of it.

The heart of Islam is to get to heaven through your own good deeds- the exact opposite of Christianity. When we look at the conception and birth of Ishmael we can clearly see how he became the father of Islam.

God told Abraham and Sarah that they together would conceive a child, both of them laughed. In a moment of disbelief, Sarah told Abraham sleep with my hand maiden and we'll make the promise come to pass. This was a dangerous thing to do. Abraham conceived Ishmael with a heart full of doubt. Doubting that he and Sarah could have a child in their old age. He also conceived Ishmael with a mindset of "I will do it in my strength." (Muslims declare to Christ "I will get to heaven in my own strength!")

Isaac, the child of the promise, was a miracle performed by God.

I also think Ishmael/Muhammad had a deep brotherly jealousy over Isaac/Israel. When was Ishmael sent away? At 13 after Sarah caught him making fun of her son. Ishmael must have HATED Isaac for being born and taking Abraham's love and attention away from himself. Then he was completely "banished" and lost a father and his way of life. Combine this with the fact that Ishmael went to dwell in Egypt taking an Egyptian wife and probably their barbaric religious beliefs you now have the making of a dangerous spirit of bitterness. And when we bring generational sins into the picture we have a deeper understanding of how Islamic terrorists are made.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
aasiya said:
Hi,

I would like to discuss on the christian evidences for the points you mentioned :

"
1. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that Jesus considered Himself Divinely God.
2. There is sufficient support for His crucifixion and resurrection. "

Could you please let me know the evidences for both the points? I've not gone through the youtube videos you posted.

But I, myself did some search on these topics for myself. I was a hindu, who reverted to Islam, chosen islam as my choice. In process of gaining knowledge, i was having a small confusion somewhere in my heart about Jesus (peace be upon him). Islam says Jesus (pbuh) is the messenger of God, Christians say that he was God, God's incarnation. So started reading the Bible, instead of listening to the people, and Bible confirmed me that Jesus taught Islam only. With out any doubt i realized what islam says about Jesus (pbuh) is true and morever the miracles of Quran provided the proof.

I'm not here to debate with you. It is just a friendly discussion. We learn from each other's knowledge. From my own research, i found that there is no strong evidence about the claims of chrisitans about Jesus (pbuh) . If you would like to discuss these points in separate thread (bcoz you want to discuss on you tube videos, which i'm not interested), please start a separate thread. I'm interested to discuss about these things.

Regards,
Aasiya
Click to expand...

Jesus is God. Let see the Quran which says All is the only one who possesses all the knowledge and the hidden knowledge( Elouim Gaib) in sura Ginn( sura gaint) and in sura ginn Allah says I will give the hidden knowledge to whom I LIKE. The quran says in sura inaraf verse 186&187 that Mohammad pbuh was not given the hidden knowledge. But see Sura Marriam( mary) Jesus was blessed with hidden knowledge. so God likes Jesus. Quran says God is provider of Food to all mankind. The quran says Jesus provided food to the people from heaven. Mohammad pbuh did not provide food. The Quran says God created human and all other living and non living thigns. The same quran says Jesus Created the birds. Christ healed and raised the deads. hahadits bukarai says Jesus will be the Master of Justice on the last day. Muslims believe Christ will come on the last era of this world and HE will preach 40 years. So he will be the last prophet. Sura Marriam VERSES 33 AND 34 CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
 
14yr Old Rape Victim Beaten to Death by Islamic Court

Hena Begum was a fourteen year old girl growing up in the Shariatpur region of Bangladesh until her forty year old cousin decided to rape her.

After she was raped, the rapist and his family then beat her until she was unconscious.

Next, the local Sharia (Islamic) courts ruled that yound Hena should receive 101 lashes for the crime of adultery — for the crime of being a child raped by an adult.

The Muslim clerics took the young girl, who still could not stand on her own, to a public square and proceeded to deliver the 101 lashes. After receiving 80 lashes, young Hena collapsed. Her family was allowed to take her to a hospital where she died from her wounds.

The child’s father, Dorbesh Khan, was also ordered to pay a fine equal to approximately $700 USD — quite a considerable sum in a nation which is suffering under the poverty which almost inevitably results from Islamic rule.

The rapist, a man known as Mahbub, was previously convicted of rape and sentenced to marry his rape victim. The rape victim from that encounter was one of the family members who helped beat young Hena unconscious before her “trial.†Mahbub has since disappeared in order to avoid punishment for this more recent rape.

What sort of people would beat a fourteen year old girl to death in a public square — and call it justice? This is not the sort of religious tolerance that I as a moral human being am willing to accept.

14yr Old Rape Victim Beaten to Death by Islamic Court | Fort Liberty

Islam a religion of peace?

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
 
Allah the moon god.

This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.

The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see: Deut. 4:19;17:3; II Kngs. 21:3,5; 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead.

The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?

The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods.

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles. Islam is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by every born again Christian.

From:
Allah — the Moon God
 
Mike said:
Christian:
1. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that Jesus considered Himself Divinely God.
2. There is sufficient support for His crucifixion and resurrection.
Click to expand...
I only got as far as this, and I'd like to say ...

Re: 1. -- Many others in the NT (beyond the gospels) also considered that Jesus was God.
And they were the early church, and they were (all?) baptised with the Holy Spirit,
meaning that among them they had ALL of the 9 powerful spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12).

Re: 2. -- Muslims believe in the resurrection.

I.e. I'm not very impressed with the points of contention.
 
aasiya said:
In process of gaining knowledge,
i was having a small confusion somewhere in my heart about Jesus.
Click to expand...
I recommend that you do some searching on the Internet
and read some of the testimonies where Jesus has come
to Muslims in dreams, visions, even in person ...
which certainly correspond to prophecies such as this one:
Joel 2:
28 “ And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
 
A couple reasons as to why Islam is not true!

1. Islam was founded by the fact Muhammad conquered cities to spread his religion! Jesus simply spoke in front of people and taught non violence!

2. Islam teaches you may escape from Hell which shows proof to Christianity that if you defy God's word that you will not be forgiven for it!
 
There is a pattern in this world that is totally indestructible.

  • Virus
  • Cancer
  • GNU GPL
  • Islam

The pattern is simple: If the host allows it, the host becomes one of it. You can see the same pattern everywhere and this pattern is even used in software licenses e.g, GPL which is described as Cancer by Microsoft Chief, and it's true as well because, if you use any library in GPL, your software license must also be GPL. Islam also follows the same pattern. No one can simply try Islam. If anyone becomes a Muslim and renounces Islam, he will be killed by his own people. I had a friend in the Australian capital, Canberra working on a Govt organization and we used to speak a lot about religion in our free time and he used to be honest in his answers. I asked him what would he do if he has a daughter and married a Christian boy. His answer was plain and simple: I will kill her. Muslims are asked to kill anyone (even their sons and daughters) if they reject Islam.

The only cure to this pattern is to destroy the entire host (or) a miracle from above. This is why Christ Himself will come and fight. The devil knows this pattern and created a religion based on this pattern called 'Islam'.

There is also another pattern: All nations that fought against Israel and mentioned in Ps 83:4-8, are now Islam.
 
EricTheBaptist said:
A couple reasons as to why Islam is not true!

1. Islam was founded by the fact Muhammad conquered cities to spread his religion! Jesus simply spoke in front of people and taught non violence!

2. Islam teaches you may escape from Hell which shows proof to Christianity that if you defy God's word that you will not be forgiven for it!
Click to expand...



1. Yet Christianity was also spread by violence and Jesus was a Jew?

2. Yet is seems that certain people have decided that which is and isn't God's 'word' and this varies sometime from person to person.

Something to think about . . . . .
 
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