Christianity and FreeMasonry

[Gary]

Frankly, when I see the un-natural negative obsessions of some concerning Freemasonry in places like this, it makes me doubt the depth of their Christian faith, that they could feel so threatened.

Why is it unnatural and negative to point out anti-christian behavior? The bible specifically states we are not to swear or take oaths. Not only do masons ignore that, but they use the bible in their oath ceremonies. They even invoke the assistance of God by ending their oath with "So help me God" and then kiss the bible.

That is not christian behavior. It doesn't matter that freemasonry is not a christian entity, transgressing the word of God is a sin. And saying it's only symbolic makes it even worst.
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[reba]

Nor is backbiting, gossip, lots and lots of stuff.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Gary]

Nor is backbiting, gossip, lots and lots of stuff.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do you believe freemasonry is harmless? By that I mean do see the oath issue as trivial?
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[agua.]

Nor is backbiting, gossip, lots and lots of stuff.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Sure Rebs. So does this mean you think Masonry is a work of the flesh ?

 

[reba]

I dont have an opinion one it one way or another.. Not enough knowledge of the subject. God looks on our hearts ... We look at each other.

 

[agua.]

I dont have an opinion one it one way or another.. Not enough knowledge of the subject. God looks on our hearts ... We look at each other.

Yes true. Yahweh also expects us to look out for our own and even drag them from bad associations when needed.

 

[Gary]

Yes true. Yahweh also expects us to look out for our own and even drag them from bad associations when needed.

James 5
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
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[reba]

Are you sure you are making a righteous judgement can you see the heart of man? It is easy to find something to pick on...
As far as taking an oath...
If you are in trouble with the law, maybe someone is suing you , and find yourself in need of a lawyer he has taken a oath you are wanting to benefit from that oath..
A Doctor takes an oath
Do we draw the line a masonry and justify the others .?

 

[agua.]

Are you sure you are making a righteous judgement can you see the heart of man? It is easy to find something to pick on...
As far as taking an oath...
If you are in trouble with the law, maybe someone is suing you , and find yourself in need of a lawyer he has taken a oath you are wanting to benefit from that oath..
A Doctor takes an oath
Do we draw the line a masonry and justify the others .?

If you don't know the oaths of Masonry maybe you should research them. This thread is specifically about Masonry so if there're other instances of similar obilagations maybe another thread will be appropraite. Association fallacy is a smoke screen.

 

[Deborah13]

Are you sure you are making a righteous judgement can you see the heart of man? It is easy to find something to pick on...
As far as taking an oath...
If you are in trouble with the law, maybe someone is suing you , and find yourself in need of a lawyer he has taken a oath you are wanting to benefit from that oath..
A Doctor takes an oath
Do we draw the line a masonry and justify the others .?

Good point. How many have taken oaths to God and country?
Boy Scouts, 4-H, soldiers do I think.

 

[reba]

Yes my post is off topic.. I dont see associations as smoke screens .. i see them related... then i have hard time understanding the strawman thing...

Added
We girls think different then the guys i guess..

 

[agua.]

Good point. How many have taken oaths to God and country?
Boy Scouts, 4-H, soldiers do I think.

Do you thinkt this is an ok obligation to take an oath upon ?

"You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate [falsify], don't tell the whole truth in his case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligation strictly, you'll be free from sin." (Edmond Ronayne, "Masonic Handbook," page 183)

 

[Deborah13]

Do you thinkt this is an ok obligation to take an oath upon ?

"You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate [falsify], don't tell the whole truth in his case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligation strictly, you'll be free from sin." (Edmond Ronayne, "Masonic Handbook," page 183)

I don't have an opinion because I don't know for sure what they do and what they don't do. And like someone else said, God looks at a person's heart and if God doesn't want them doing that He'll speak them not me.

 

[Gary]

Are you sure you are making a righteous judgement can you see the heart of man? It is easy to find something to pick on...
As far as taking an oath...
If you are in trouble with the law, maybe someone is suing you , and find yourself in need of a lawyer he has taken a oath you are wanting to benefit from that oath..
A Doctor takes an oath
Do we draw the line a masonry and justify the others .?

Are their oaths similar to these?

The obligation of a first degree Freemason (Entered Apprentice degree):

“Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the rough sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty four hours, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn oath and obligation as an Entered Apprentice Mason. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.”

The obligation of a second degree Freemason (Fellowcraft degree):

“Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked out, and given as a prey to the wild beasts of the field and the fowls of the air as a prey.”

The obligation of a third degree Freemason (Master Mason degree):

“Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven, so that no more trace or remembrance may be had of so vile and perjured a wretch as I, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn obligation as a Master Mason. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.”

http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/oaths.html

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[agua.]

I don't have an opinion because I don't know for sure what they do and what they don't do. And like someone else said, God looks at a person's heart and if God doesn't want them doing that He'll speak them not me.

Ok sure. If you see a Brother into something which may be harmful you look away and let Yahweh fix him up? You're thinking with emotion.

 

[Mike S]

It's interesting to see the difference between those who have a true Christian understanding of "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling", recognizing their own weaknesses, as opposed to those with an unjustified confidence lecturing others on what it means to be Christian. It's like watching a patient, experienced, old Job suffering the pronouncements of his less insightful friends Eliphaz, Bildad and Zopha.

 

[agua.]

Actually I think it's more like watching Elihu giving Job the better judgement which ahead of time showed him the true resurrection which isn't in accord with the legend of Hiram Abiff's standing up again when building Solomon's Temple.

If you want to start adressing obligations of Masonry and get to the heart of the matter best start presenting them.

 

[agua.]

Oh Mike I need to tell you the carrot will never be tasted.

 

[turnorburn]

Mike listen to yourself brother..

It's interesting to see the difference between those who have a true Christian understanding of "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling", recognizing their own weaknesses, as opposed to those with an unjustified confidence lecturing others on what it means to be Christian. It's like watching a patient, experienced, old Job suffering the pronouncements of his less insightful friends Eliphaz, Bildad and Zopha.

Those that have a true understanding of Christianity? tell me what kind of a man makes a statement like this and yet people sign up to take part in an organization where he was a top gun.. he called Jesus our savior "the god of darkness and evil" he said "yes Lucifer is God"

Listen to this Satanic filth.. blasphemous satanic filth..

That which we must say to the world is that we worship a god, but it is the god that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: The masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the higher degrees, maintained in the Purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay and his priests calumniate him?

Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods; darkness being necessary for light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive….

Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy, and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil.

tob

*edit: forgot the link..

https://goddrinksbeer.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/albert-pike-and-the-luciferian-quote/

 

[Mike S]

Actually I think it's more like watching Elihu giving Job the better judgement which ahead of time showed him the true resurrection which isn't in accord with the legend of Hiram Abiff's standing up again when building Solomon's Temple.

If you want to start adressing obligations of Masonry and get to the heart of the matter best start presenting them.

LOL, no thanks, aqua, it's more interesting just watching your sputterings...the beauty of an obsession.