Christianity and Messianic Judaism

[Ivy]

Neat, David, thanks - I'll check that out.

 

[Ivy]

Okay, this is proof Messianic study can be very helpful...I've been scanning the article, "Was the Logos Melchizedek (from the site you suggested, David). For example, this part:

"Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the booty he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a fellow-worshiper of the one true God as well as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than himself."

First of all, let me say that it's wonderful that a simple faith in Jesus and what He's done is what saves us. Beyond this, it is a wonderful thing to be able to really study, and oftentimes, very necessary - especially if people get "off" on errant translations of God's Word. It's good to be able to delve into Bible history and get a clearer idea of the culture; how what happened applies to us today in a different culture.

Tithing is one way people become stumbled today, but in this passage of Scripture, where Abraham gave Melchizedek a tithe, it is in relation to what is clearly set forth in the law of the tithe in Deuteronomy 14. The Biblical law of the tithe had to do with once every year, the people taking a 10th of their crop, and partaking of it themselves at a place God chose (if they couldn't get to that place, they were to exchange it for money and buy anything their heart desired). Every three years, they were to put it in the storehouse for the priests, the poor and the aliens; for their sustenance.

Therefore, Abraham was saying that Melchizedek was as a priest; honoring him with a tithe.

Yep, this is what a Biblical Jewish history study can reveal - I think it's very helpful to Christianity in this sense.

 

[RND]

Yep, this is what a Biblical Jewish history study can reveal - I think it's very helpful to Christianity in this sense.

I definitely agree Ivy. It is fascinating to me that "Christianity" in some way is returning in vast numbers to a desire to understand how the ancient "Hebraic" (not "Jewish) roots of Christianity is actually so much a part of the religion. I see this in some way as a fulfillment of prophecy from Daniel.

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

 

[Ivy]

Good word, David.

And frankly, without understanding the "Hebraic" origin, as you correctly state it, we can just be so off in our theology, and lead others astray. I finished reading that piece on Melchizedek, and find it so neat how the Rabbi explains the misunderstanding of what the writer of Hebrews wrote about the priesthood of Christ and of Melchizedek. Some have taught that Melchizedek was an incarnation of Christ - but this is because they didn't understand the time; Paul new that 1 century Christians would understand that "having no father, mother or genealogy" meant there were no records. And in this way, Melchizedek was not of the Levitical order; not appointed under the law, but by God. In this way, Christ was "of the order of Melchizedek."

These kind of things can not be rationalized within our modern times, they must be studied.

 

[RND]

Good word, David.

And frankly, without understanding the "Hebraic" origin, as you correctly state it, we can just be so off in our theology, and lead others astray. I finished reading that piece on Melchizedek, and find it so neat how the Rabbi explains the misunderstanding of what the writer of Hebrews wrote about the priesthood of Christ and of Melchizedek. Some have taught that Melchizedek was an incarnation of Christ - but this is because they didn't understand the time; Paul new that 1 century Christians would understand that "having no father, mother or genealogy" meant there were no records. And in this way, Melchizedek was not of the Levitical order; not appointed under the law, but by God. In this way, Christ was "of the order of Melchizedek."

These kind of things can not be rationalized within our modern times, they must be studied.

Right Ivy! Type and anti-type. Melchizedek was a "type" of Christ....not Christ himself.

 

[cyberjosh]

I love things related to Messianic Christianity, which basically consists of Messianic Jews who believe in Jesus as the Christ, and I listen to a wonderful praise artist named Paul Wilbur who has sung messianic worship for nearly 30 years now.

Also if you are interested in trying out new Bible Versions from time to time a Messianic Jew/Christian named David Stern created a translation of the New Testament (called The Jewish New Testament) that substitutes many English terms for their Jewish and Hebrew equivalent to put the words in the context and culture of the day in which it was spoken. For example the priests are refered to as "Kohen" the Hebrew word translated "piest" all throughout the Old Testament and I believe words like righteousness are written "Zadik" (which means righteousness/justice in Hebrew). The benefit is that it easily reveals themes in the Scripture that might not otherwise jump out at you and more clearly demonstrated a continuity with the Old Testament (he also has a single volume work called the "Complete Jewish Bible" which has the Old Testament translated in the same way along side the New Testament), and he also has made a superb commentary to accompany the translation (a separate book) that explains those terms in context and in more depth. If you are even remotely interested in Messianic Judaism/Christianity I would recommend looking at David Stern's translation and listenign to Paul Wilbur's music (you can listen to him on YouTube if you type in his name).

Also for the record, the book description for the Complete Jewish Bible states two purposes (among many) for the translation which are pretty neat:

- reconnects Christians with their Jewish roots and the Jewish people
- connects Jews with the Jewishness of Messiah Yeshua and Messianic faith

Shalom,

Yeshua (Joshua)

 

[cyberjosh]

If you want to learn more about Paul Wilbur you can look at this thread I made a few months back: Praise Adonai!. You can click on the links to see his praise videos, and if you scroll down halfway on the first page you will see a picture of his newest album which I have, and it is excellent. If you see it at the Christian Bookstore or something I recommend getting it. It is wonderful and I often listen to it in my car on the way to school and work.

God Bless,

Joshua/Yeshua

 

[oneisgod]

What's the difference between these two religions?

There should be non!

 

[MMarc]

I studied the scriptures in light of Jewish understanding. How rich, I learned more about Christianity while learning from Jews. The Irony...

Jews don't blame Moises for the sins of Israel, I pray they stop blaiming Jesus for the sins of Christians.

 

[RND]

Messianic Jews are Jews who have come to realize the Jesus was and is the Jewish Messiah. Its not a denomination. If you knew some chruch history you would realize that we are all grafted in Jews. What is stupid is that the gentiles who came in rejected the Jewish roots and started the "Christian" church. They also are the ones who created moronic denominations. One was created simply because a King wanted a divorce. God never intended all the denominations that are out there. We as the Body of Christ are a sad refelction of what Jesus came to do.

Very nice.

 

[Adullam]

I am for the return to the Hebraic roots in Christianity. ie...The celebration of the feasts of God. Hebrew bible study etc.

However, I do not like a separate denomination for Jewish believers and their Gentile supporters. As wih all error, it is backwards. We do not add Jesus to Rabbinic traditions and call it Christianity. In fact Messianic Jews don't call themselves Christians for the most part. Is the way of Christian unity?

All disciples should come out a be separate from the systems of this world in order to be one in the Spirit. In Christ, the middle wall of division has been torn down.

 

[RND]

By their nature "Messianics" (to which all "Christians" belong, whether they know it or not) believe that Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah of the Lord. Not all "Messianics" are of the Rabbinic (Talmudic) persuasion. Some are. It would be like saying......

All "Adventists" believe in the second coming of Jesus the Messiah. Not all "Adventists" are Seventh-day Adventists.

 

[Adullam]

By their nature "Messianics" (to which all "Christians" belong, whether they know it or not) believe that Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah of the Lord. Not all "Messianics" are of the Rabbinic (Talmudic) persuasion. Some are. It would be like saying......

All "Adventists" believe in the second coming of Jesus the Messiah. Not all "Adventists" are Seventh-day Adventists.

People hide behind labels. Christians don't discern that the systems they create leave God behind. We need to be set free of our human ways. So am I a free Messianic adventist, or just a disciple of Christ?

 

[RND]

By their nature "Messianics" (to which all "Christians" belong, whether they know it or not) believe that Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah of the Lord. Not all "Messianics" are of the Rabbinic (Talmudic) persuasion. Some are. It would be like saying......

All "Adventists" believe in the second coming of Jesus the Messiah. Not all "Adventists" are Seventh-day Adventists.

People hide behind labels. Christians don't discern that the systems they create leave God behind. We need to be set free of our human ways. So am I a free Messianic adventist, or just a disciple of Christ?

I believe "some" people hide behind labels however I also believe labels can be quite instructive and helpful. I also don't believe "the systems they create leave God behind" but it's the people within those systems, any system, that leave God behind. Also, don't the two (Messianic adventist/ disciple of Christ?) go hand in hand?