Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Christians & Alcohol

pdpilgrim78

Member
Let me start off by stating, I was raised under somewhat strict beliefs that alchohol was absolutely evil and not to be consumed period. When I was of age to make my own mistakes, I jumped at the opportunity and found out that I really quite enjoyed alchohol, so much so that I soon developed a taste for it. Making a long story short, I enjoyed doing what I wanted when I wanted, said my so longs and left God in the rearview mirror.
7 years ago, I found that God had been pursuing me in my sin, and He graciously and miracously saved my soul. He pulled me from the pit I was in, cleansed me and set me on a new path with new desires.
This all leads into my question.
Since being saved, I knew from the moment I walked away from the altar I was at that I was not to partake of alchohol..... period. This was not a command from the pulpit, or the gentle whispers of those who would subsequently pray with and for me. It was something I knew intrinsically.
Now the confusion arised in seeing others who seemingly had every bit as a sincere relationship with Christ that were partaking in alchohol.
I had naturally assumed that because Christ removed that specific thing from me, that it was a generalization that applied to all. And it fell in line with what I was taught growing up. I now question that initial assumption. I see far too often a hard line stance to issues such as drinking, and if you partake, you're outside the church. I believe this comes from a lack of compassion, but I guess that's a secondary issue to the one i'm inquiring about.
This is not an attempt to justify me picking up the bottle again, thank Jesus, I still have no desire to dive back into that. But it's more out of a sincere curiosity. I'd love to hear your insight. I've heard many arguments regarding the references to wine in the Bible implies a lack of fermentation, a simple interpretation of wine simply being 'fruit of the vine', so I'm looking for those who have studied into this and your conclusions.
 
Re: Christians & Alchohol

Let me start off by stating, I was raised under somewhat strict beliefs that alchohol was absolutely evil and not to be consumed period. When I was of age to make my own mistakes, I jumped at the opportunity and found out that I really quite enjoyed alchohol, so much so that I soon developed a taste for it. Making a long story short, I enjoyed doing what I wanted when I wanted, said my so longs and left God in the rearview mirror.
7 years ago, I found that God had been pursuing me in my sin, and He graciously and miracously saved my soul. He pulled me from the pit I was in, cleansed me and set me on a new path with new desires.
This all leads into my question.
Since being saved, I knew from the moment I walked away from the altar I was at that I was not to partake of alchohol..... period. This was not a command from the pulpit, or the gentle whispers of those who would subsequently pray with and for me. It was something I knew intrinsically.
Now the confusion arised in seeing others who seemingly had every bit as a sincere relationship with Christ that were partaking in alchohol.
I had naturally assumed that because Christ removed that specific thing from me, that it was a generalization that applied to all. And it fell in line with what I was taught growing up. I now question that initial assumption. I see far too often a hard line stance to issues such as drinking, and if you partake, you're outside the church. I believe this comes from a lack of compassion, but I guess that's a secondary issue to the one i'm inquiring about.
This is not an attempt to justify me picking up the bottle again, thank Jesus, I still have no desire to dive back into that. But it's more out of a sincere curiosity. I'd love to hear your insight. I've heard many arguments regarding the references to wine in the Bible implies a lack of fermentation, a simple interpretation of wine simply being 'fruit of the vine', so I'm looking for those who have studied into this and your conclusions.

Hi, p78:

I don't want any alcohol, either. In my view, quite strongly, I'm better off without it at all.

But I don't do isegesis (rather than exegesis) and make the Bible say that alcohol is totally prohibited, although its abuse certainly is unscriptural.

Remember, the culture of North American Fundamentalism was influenced by Prohibition. Other countries where the Gospel also had strong influence did not have such a strong anti-alcohol background, although Christians have very widely advocated moderation.

The Fundamentalists shoot themselves in the foot sometimes when they try to deal with the passage in John 2 where the Lord Jesus turned the water into wine. They put on their Prohibition-colored spectacles and say, on the basis of a fairly recent North American historical experience, Oh, it wasn't real wine.

Liberals then come back at them smiling and say, We agree! and so we're glad to know that you now agree with us that it wasn't a real miracle.

Small wonder than many thinking people, who need the Gospel and to acknowledge Scripture's authority and the message of the Savior, will often take the view that Fundamentalists can't be taken seriously. In fact, the central Gospel message which Fundamentalists preach should indeed be taken seriously and gloriously proclaimed. But sometimes Fundamentalists don't help themselves with some of the arguments they make, reflecting a cultural mindset more than Scripture itself.

Blessings.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Christians & Alchohol

Farouk & Grazer,
Excellent commentaries on the subject. Exactly what I'm looking for.

I feel much the same, and to further comment on your blogs Grazer, I've not studied into the original text to determine if the Bible differentiates between wine 'oinos' and another usage of wine to differentiate non-fermented wine? So I may begin there.

I especially enjoyed the insight into everything within the confines of moderation and frameworks. I've never been sold that it has to be an all or nothing proposal?
 
Re: Christians & Alchohol

Let me start off by stating, I was raised under somewhat strict beliefs that alchohol was absolutely evil and not to be consumed period. When I was of age to make my own mistakes, I jumped at the opportunity and found out that I really quite enjoyed alchohol, so much so that I soon developed a taste for it. Making a long story short, I enjoyed doing what I wanted when I wanted, said my so longs and left God in the rearview mirror.
7 years ago, I found that God had been pursuing me in my sin, and He graciously and miracously saved my soul. He pulled me from the pit I was in, cleansed me and set me on a new path with new desires.
This all leads into my question.
Since being saved, I knew from the moment I walked away from the altar I was at that I was not to partake of alchohol..... period. This was not a command from the pulpit, or the gentle whispers of those who would subsequently pray with and for me. It was something I knew intrinsically.
Now the confusion arised in seeing others who seemingly had every bit as a sincere relationship with Christ that were partaking in alchohol.
I had naturally assumed that because Christ removed that specific thing from me, that it was a generalization that applied to all. And it fell in line with what I was taught growing up. I now question that initial assumption. I see far too often a hard line stance to issues such as drinking, and if you partake, you're outside the church. I believe this comes from a lack of compassion, but I guess that's a secondary issue to the one i'm inquiring about.
This is not an attempt to justify me picking up the bottle again, thank Jesus, I still have no desire to dive back into that. But it's more out of a sincere curiosity. I'd love to hear your insight. I've heard many arguments regarding the references to wine in the Bible implies a lack of fermentation, a simple interpretation of wine simply being 'fruit of the vine', so I'm looking for those who have studied into this and your conclusions.

The debate over wine in the Bible being "alcohol" or "grape juice" can go on forever and will not change the very important thing the bible says about the matter, here we are told:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (KJV)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

This is enough to make one wonder at what point will Jesus claim me a drunkard? one drink? two? ten?

The fact he does not tell us, yet makes a clear point as to what will happen to one He decides is in fact a "Drunkard" it is best to abstain and live assuredly.

But also we are taught :

1 John 2:10 (KJV)
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

So, even if the bible did/does allow for what some call "moderation", yet a brother has a problem with alcoholism, one who has one drink in his presents even not knowing of his problem, could cause him to fall (stumble).

Again best to abstain, I have never seen any good come from it, I consider it the devils potion, and anyone supposing to be my brother in Christ should not do it period! even at the Lords Table as grape juice is in fact "fruit of the vine"!

Keep your strength my friend, if one be a good Christian and keep his commands, anyone can stay recovered, you have the best doctor in the universe, the Creator!
 
Raised Pentecostal just about anything that had any pleasure in it was a sin in the mid 50s ..... It took years before i realized a person who smoked/drank could be a Christian! (dont kill me i believe christians should not smoke) See i knew gossip and backbiting were forgiven....

Some of us can not have a drink some of us can not have a bite or 2 of chocolate... If one has any doubt dont touch it....
 
Re: Christians & Alchohol

Farouk & Grazer,
Excellent commentaries on the subject. Exactly what I'm looking for.

I feel much the same, and to further comment on your blogs Grazer, I've not studied into the original text to determine if the Bible differentiates between wine 'oinos' and another usage of wine to differentiate non-fermented wine? So I may begin there.

I especially enjoyed the insight into everything within the confines of moderation and frameworks. I've never been sold that it has to be an all or nothing proposal?

I've never accepted it was an all or nothing deal. I'm glad you enjoyed them :)
 
Raised Pentecostal just about anything that had any pleasure in it was a sin in the mid 50s ..... It took years before i realized a person who smoked/drank could be a Christian! (dont kill me i believe christians should not smoke) See i knew gossip and backbiting were forgiven....

Some of us can not have a drink some of us can not have a bite or 2 of chocolate... If one has any doubt dont touch it....

I see nothing wrong with Christians drinking alcohol...in moderation. Alcohol can become another "god" we serve, if we let it, but is not something to be prohibited in it's entirety. Christ's grace gives us the power over this tempatation, as it does over others.
 
Raised Pentecostal just about anything that had any pleasure in it was a sin in the mid 50s ..... It took years before i realized a person who smoked/drank could be a Christian! (dont kill me i believe christians should not smoke) See i knew gossip and backbiting were forgiven....

Some of us can not have a drink some of us can not have a bite or 2 of chocolate... If one has any doubt dont touch it....

Reba,
Same here. Pentecostal upbringing, so I know the strict limitations I had growing up. And I wrestled for a while after seeing people shedding tears of repentance and seemingly get saved, only to see them a week later smoking and talking about Jesus. It seemed to go against everything I heard growing up.

Mind you, I know without a shadow of a doubt that I'm (speaking for myself only) to not touch those things. I believe the Lord has delivered me from those things, and I have no desire to go back. Whether it be tobacco or drink, I refuse to partake. Just wrestled for a long time with others, as the preconceived notions I had was that if they touched it, they weren't saved. I began to question it a few years back, and have changed my stance.

I now am probably one of the few in my church to have this leniant mindset, but I feel no contradiction in the word. I no longer feel a spirit of condemnation towards others who partake. Rather, I think my compassion has grown for others.
 
Did Christ drink alcohol? Did he turn water into alcohol or into wine (i.e. Nonalcoholic). Can we take alcohol in small quantities? Can we have a quickie fight? Can we have a brief moment of rape? Can we lie a bit? Can cannot can what can can can because can can always can what can can't can..
 
Did Christ drink alcohol? Did he turn water into alcohol or into wine (i.e. Nonalcoholic). Can we take alcohol in small quantities? Can we have a quickie fight? Can we have a brief moment of rape? Can we lie a bit? Can cannot can what can can can because can can always can what can can't can..

What makes you think the wine Jesus turned the water into was nonalcoholic?
 
Did Christ drink alcohol? Did he turn water into alcohol or into wine (i.e. Nonalcoholic). Can we take alcohol in small quantities? Can we have a quickie fight? Can we have a brief moment of rape? Can we lie a bit? Can cannot can what can can can because can can always can what can can't can..


Classik,
I cannot comment on the last bit for obvious reasons... :lol

In regards to the First part, I've determined to take Jonathan Edwards advice.

I am resolved never to do anything which I should be afraid to do if it were the last hour of my life. – Jonathan Edwards

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>I strive to be lead by the Holy Spirit, to turn away from sin, to abhor evil. </o:p>
<o:p>But in regards to alchohol, I've never found the line to be quite so clear cut as other commandments. </o:p>
<o:p>I know intrinsically that rape is wrong, that no liar shall enter into heaven. But in regards to the biblical references to wine, and the question of, "is it fermented, or is it not?" I've always questioned. Drunkeness is clear cut, but drinking is not, at least for me it wasn't. Not for the purpose of partaking of it myself, but I always thought it wrong, and found that I would generally look down on others who did drink or smoke... I had little to no compassion.</o:p>
 
Classik,I cannot comment on the last bit for obvious reasons... In regards to the First part, I've determined to take Jonathan Edwards advice. I am resolved never to do anything which I should be afraid to do if it were the last hour of my life. – Jonathan Edwards fficeffice" />>I strive to be lead by the Holy Spirit, to turn away from sin, to abhor evil. >>But in regards to alchohol, I've never found the line to be quite so clear cut as other commandments. >>I know intrinsically that rape is wrong, that no liar shall enter into heaven. But in regards to the biblical references to wine, and the question of, "is it fermented, or is it not?" I've always questioned. Drunkeness is clear cut, but drinking is not, at least for me it wasn't. Not for the purpose of partaking of it myself, but I always thought it wrong, and found that I would generally look down on others who did drink or smoke... I had little to no compassion.>
I like this part:
Not for the purpose of partaking of it myself, but I always thought it wrong, and found that I would generally look down on others who did drink or smoke... I had little to no compassion
What I always advise people is, if you think alcohol is okay for a Christian to drink, if you think cigarette is good for a Christian, (no matter the qualtity the person takes)...let the person bring it to church. Drink in the church and smoke in the church.:lol
 
pdPilgram, I don't believe I've seen an OP or any post on this topic so wonderfully said. Given your upbringing and current stance, your story cannot be easily told.

Personally, I see no scriptural conflict with alcohol in moderation, as it speaks out against drunkards; not alcohol. But if it goes against a personal conviction placed on a person's heart, it would be disobedience and sin to go against it.

This is see as another matter of the heart and a freedom that comes with being set free. Of course, getting drunk is sinful, but the heart of one who drinks in mild moderation can be free from guilt, IMHO. I hope this stays as friendly among those with varying views. :)
 
I don't drink despite the pressure from my friends to drink with them at restraunts. I always just have a diet pepsi and be the des driver. I too grew up thinking that alcohol is a substance you don't wanna get involved with bc it can go out of control fast, my dad has been sober for 5 yrs. running. Praying he stays that way.
 
I like this part:What I always advise people is, if you think alcohol is okay for a Christian to drink, if you think cigarette is good for a Christian, (no matter the qualtity the person takes)...let the person bring it to church. Drink in the church and smoke in the church.:lol

Erm, I'd prefer NOT to get lung cancer thankyouverymuch.
 
pdPilgram, I don't believe I've seen an OP or any post on this topic so wonderfully said. Given your upbringing and current stance, your story cannot be easily told.

Personally, I see no scriptural conflict with alcohol in moderation, as it speaks out against drunkards; not alcohol. But if it goes against a personal conviction placed on a person's heart, it would be disobedience and sin to go against it.

This is see as another matter of the heart and a freedom that comes with being set free. Of course, getting drunk is sinful, but the heart of one who drinks in mild moderation can be free from guilt, IMHO. I hope this stays as friendly among those with varying views. :)


Thanks Mike,
I guess any upbringing in any church inevitably leaves us with lingering preconceived notions. I've been asking the Lord to search me and get rid of those things I hold to because that's what I've always heard. So the thought processes into some of these topics is relativley new to me.

Everyone has been great about giving their honest opinions, and some excellent wisdom in this forum. Glad I came across it.
 
Reba,
Same here. Pentecostal upbringing, so I know the strict limitations I had growing up. And I wrestled for a while after seeing people shedding tears of repentance and seemingly get saved, only to see them a week later smoking and talking about Jesus. It seemed to go against everything I heard growing up.

Mind you, I know without a shadow of a doubt that I'm (speaking for myself only) to not touch those things. I believe the Lord has delivered me from those things, and I have no desire to go back. Whether it be tobacco or drink, I refuse to partake. Just wrestled for a long time with others, as the preconceived notions I had was that if they touched it, they weren't saved. I began to question it a few years back, and have changed my stance.

I now am probably one of the few in my church to have this leniant mindset, but I feel no contradiction in the word. I no longer feel a spirit of condemnation towards others who partake. Rather, I think my compassion has grown for others.
Yup i kinda heard the old penticostal between the lines...:) I would not change all the Sunday School i had for anything....
I no longer feel a spirit of condemnation towards others who partake. Rather, I think my compassion has grown for others
AMEN
 
I always just have a diet pepsi

You're new here, so I'll keep this civil. It is against our ToS to promote drinking Diet Pepsi. Drinking alcohol in moderation may be a matter of the heart, but drinking Diet Pepsi is always wrong. Diet Coke is the only biblical choice. Jesus didn't drink Diet Pepsi. He was all about Diet Coke and sharing it with others:

Luke 6:29 "If someone takes your Coke, do not stop him" :coke

Now, back to topic. :)
 
Back
Top