Christians: Quallity or Quantity?

[Christ_empowered]

I keep hearing that we're now a post-Christian US (for those of you in much of Europe in the UK, that's even more true of your societies, from what I've read). So, that begs the question: is it better to have lots of people in church--possibly the result of a more modern church reaching out to the masses--with varying degrees of commitment to the faith, or is it better to let the changing times take some out of church, keep others from coming in, and focus more on discipling the current members and the ones who come out of genuine interest and conviction?

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. I was raised PCUSA, so I think it's better to let people come to you when the Holy Spirit moves upon them to do so. Having been at Christian Rehab, I've seen how you can talk to people about Jesus until you're blue in the face, but you ultimately have to wait for God to move before you get a conversion. Then again...I've only been at this 3 years. I'm not exactly an expert.

What do you all think?

 

[Danus]

I agree with you, in that I think it's better that the church be pure and not force itself (That might be a strong term, but I think you know what I mean) on society.

Those who are lead by the spirit will be lead by the spirit. Why institutionalize Christ? ...what good does it do? What good has it done? Don't get me wrong, I think we need to be known.

 

[Brightmorningstar]

Its a good question.
The Biblical testimony shows that it is primarily quality and not quantity. It is quality that will effect quantity. In the OT we see the prophets as lone voices, but for example Gideon's army reduced until it was the ones who knew by faith. The Christian church today of course has grown from the 12 chosen, to the dozens at pentecost to billions.
The witness to Christ can still be made by the church which is still human and imperfect, providing it witnesses Christ who is perfect. So it is where Christ is compromised that quantity is useless.

 

[Classik]

Quality of quantity

 

[Gordon]

I agree with you, in that I think it's better that the church be pure and not force itself (That might be a strong term, but I think you know what I mean) on society.

Those who are lead by the spirit will be lead by the spirit. Why institutionalize Christ? ...what good does it do? What good has it done? Don't get me wrong, I think we need to be known.

I disagree. If you are some buddhist or something who just knows of Christ as some other religion when are you confronted with your decision regarding Jesus? How does that buddhist become a follower of Christ without an aggressive missionary? It's not like God wants all these people in China and India to die just knowing of Jesus like westerners know of Buddha. Why are we told to go make disciples of all the nations if we are supposed to sit back and if God moves a person he will come to us? If I was living in China and I was going to die without Jesus and Christianity, was just some religion to me I'd need someone to "wake me up". I don't like the belief that the people who don't come to Jesus God just didn't want. I just don't believe that Christianity spread in early days by people spontaneously becoming Christians after hearing a bit about Jesus. I mean what was the point of the miracles if not to force people to make a decision upon being confronted with the truth? The apostles moved into peoples houses and taught for days or more.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Anyone's allowed to visit and/or attend my church, but to be a member they have to be born again and baptized, as well as follow the by-laws and attend a minimum of once every three months (unless they aren't able to).
I think that's a good policy.

That said, being a church member doesn't necessarily mean that you're really committed.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think Danus and I (and a couple other posters) see eye-to-eye on this. Maybe geography plays a role? I'm in the Bible Belt (always have been), and I've seen first hand how mass-produced Christianity can produce an oppressive, intolerant society that isn't really "Christian" in other respects (rules but no compassion, basically). Also, I think pressuring people to be Christian leads to false conversions.

Then again..at least if you reach a critical mass of Christians of at least moderate commitment, you can get some social change going. Soup kitchens, a different way of looking at the world, that sort of thing. My big fear is that Christianity in the US will fade into the night and humanism and "progressive" thinking will come to the fore, and this will be seen as "progress" over "repressive" Christianity (and religion in general), with the end result of people who are less in control of their behavior, a more sinful society, and less freedom.

 

[Brightmorningstar]

I dont know the Bible belt but sounds like wise words.

Humanism/human rights and secularism actually gives Christianity a voice through Democracy. What we are seeing is some humanists and secularists not honouring their god and ideals. They need to have the facts pointed out to them, if they wont honour their own human rights dont expect anyone else to.

 

[tim-from-pa]

so I think it's better to let people come to you when the Holy Spirit moves upon them to do so.

That's the key. No man can come to Christ save the Spirit draw him. I think we always are trying to "help" God get converts just as Abraham tried "helping" God by having Ishmael for the recipient of the promises.

Our job is to be a witness of the coming Kingdom of God, and by this witness is how the Lord calls those whom He will for this purpose.

Not everyone will be called and saved in this age, and maybe many of them never will be. But one thing's for certain. Whether now or in the next dispensation of things these people will have their chance.

In short, I've always hated a church whose goal was to increase the role. Harvesting will be tough enough without having to sort out more tares yet.

 

[Mike S]

We need quality of Christian discipleship first, and quantity will follow. It does not serve us well to participate in secularizing our theology in an effort to appeal to a larger audience. That results in lukewarm churches, which eventually disappear for lack of passion and a true connection to Christ.

What John Wesley feared for the Methodist church is true for all:

“I am not afraid that the people called Methodists should ever cease to exist either in Europe or America. But I am afraid lest they should only exist as a dead sect, having the form of religion without the power. And this undoubtedly will be the case unless they hold fast both the doctrine, spirit, and discipline with which they first set out.”


As Christians, we should not fear the death of the church in Europe and North America due to secularization. The church is global, and growing because of a strong commitment to traditional Christion doctrine. Where once American Christianity served as missionaries to Africa and Asia, the roles are beginning to be reversed.

 

[SpagLard]

I think what we really need is devoted Christians,
reading and studying the word for themselves and bettering oneanother.
tolerance and respect for differences of opinion, so we can learn and grow.

JC would never measure his following by whether or not they go to church let alone the frequency of their attendance. God only looks inside our hearts.

 

[for_his_glory]

I would rather be a part of that which is quality through perfection that is Jesus perfecting me to be able to bring that perfection that is Jesus to that of the quantity that needs Jesus in their lives to fill up the pews of Gods sanctuary.

Many Churches like a large congregation, but yet allow Satan to sit in the front pew and even teach from the pulpit his false gospel just to fill up the sanctuary of a literal four walled church to bring their monetary offerings by the quantity as society choices who will be allowed to walk through the doors, but leave empty on the inside.