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Church Of England Allows Female Bishops

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Hey Everyone,

What do you think of the new decision from the Anglican Church regarding female Bishops?

More info:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28300618

God pours out His Spirit on both His sons and daughters. In this day and age knowledge has been greatly increased and we have equal schooling for sons and daughters. As Paul asked, "were we baptized into his name?" No -vows taken are to the Lord. I don't find any commandment in the OT that forbids females from being a witness and teacher of God. What I see as lawful I do not speak in terms of error. What will they be charged with? "preaching the gospel"

We read in the "OT" that all of Israel came to hear the word of the Lord through "Deborah". I don't think Gods choice was an accident. I think God was making a point. We are to treat people like we want to be treated. The Law of Love. Jesus's command.

Randy
 
There are no examples in the Bible.
The Old Testament has Deborah as a Judge but not a priest.
The New Testament has Junia being great among the Apostles but not a pastor of a flock.
 
12 O My people! Their oppressors are children, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray And confuse the direction of your paths. (Isaiah 3:12 NASB)

12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. (1 Timothy 2:12-13 NASB)

3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:3 NASB)

The order of headship is built into creation. By nature woman do not have authority over men. God did not ordain woman for positions of leadership in the church. Paul plainly explains this reason why woman are not to be leaders over men. It's not a cultural reason, it's by reason of creation.



 
There are no examples in the Bible.
The Old Testament has Deborah as a Judge but not a priest.
The New Testament has Junia being great among the Apostles but not a pastor of a flock.

The word of the Lord came through Deborah. We use the OT and NT when we preach and teach. At least I hope. (smile)

We are all one in Christ Jesus. The Apostles were astonished when the HS was poured out on Cornelius. (gentiles) God is doing something new.

So you think women are excluded from this statement "and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen."

Randy
 
The word of the Lord came through Deborah. We use the OT and NT when we preach and teach. At least I hope. (smile)

We are all one in Christ Jesus. The Apostles were astonished when the HS was poured out on Cornelius. (gentiles) God is doing something new.

So you think women are excluded from this statement "and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen."

Randy
Are priests pastors of flocks or are they intercessors?
Was the Levitical priesthood ever charged with pastoring flocks?
 
Kathi,

But is that what the verse is affirming that women should not be bishops?

I find it too easy in the Western, traditional church to discard women in ministry and especially women bishops, based on verses such as 1 Tim 3:2 (ESV) . For an overview of some of the issues in 1 Timothy, I recommend a read of Gordon Fee's article, 'Reflections on church order in the pastoral epistles, with further reflection on the hermeneutics of ad hoc documents'. See: http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/28/28-2/28-2-pp141-151_JETS.pdf. All is not as easy as it looks to modern readers to interpret these pastoral epistles and the false teachings being refuted.

In his commentary on the Pastoral Epistles (1&2 Timothy, Titus), Gordon Fee provides this exposition of 1 Tim 3:2 (ESV) , 'the husband of but one wife' as a qualification for overseers/bishops. He wrote:

The husband of but one wife is one of the truly difficult phrases in the PE [Pastoral Epistles] (cf. 3:12; 5:9, of the 'true' widows, and Titus 1:6). There are at least four options: First, it could be requiring that the overseer be married. Support is found in the fact that the false teachers are forbidding marriage and that Paul urges marriage for the wayward widows (5:14; cf. 2:15). But against this is that it emphasizes must and wife, while the text emphasizes one, that Paul, and most likely Timothy, were not married, and that it stands in contradiction to 1 Corinthians 7:25-38 (NIV) . Besides, it was a cultural presupposition that most people would be married.
Second, it could be that it prohibits polygamy. This correctly emphasizes the one wife aspect; but polygamy was such a rare feature of pagan society that such a prohibition would function as a near irrelevancy. Moreover, it would not seem to fit the identical phrase used of the widows in 5:9.
Third, it could be prohibiting second marriages. Such an interpretation is supported by many of the data: It would fit the widows especially, and all kinds of inscriptional evidence praises women (especially, although sometimes men) who were 'married only once' and remained 'faithful' to that marriage after their partner died. This view would then prohibit second marriages after the death of a spouse, but it would also obviously - perhaps especially - prohibit divorce and remarriage. Some scholars (e.g., Hanson) would make it refer only to the latter.
Fourth, it could be that it requires marital fidelity to this one wife (cf. NEB: 'faithful to his one wife'). In this view the overseer is required to live an exemplary married life (marriage is assumed), faithful to his one wife in a culture in which marital infidelity was common, and at time assumed. It would, of course, also rule out polygamy and divorce and remarriage, but it would not necessarily rule out the remarriage of a widower (although that would still not be the Pauline ideal; cf. 1 Cor. 7:8-9, 39-40). Although there is much to be said for either understanding of the third option, the concern that the church's leaders live exemplary married lives seems to fit the context best - given the apparently low view of marriage and family held by the false teachers (4:3; cf. 3:4-5) (Fee 1988:80-81).​

Because of these difficulties in exegesis and exposition of 1 Tim 3:2 (ESV) , I will not be too rigid to adhere to a view that excludes women from the ministry as an overseer/bishop. All is not as clear as it seems in this pastoral epistle. But it has been made to look clean cut by my traditional, evangelical background.

Works consulted
Fee, G D 1985. Reflections on church order in the pastoral epistles, with further reflection on the hermeneutics of ad hoc documents. Journal of the evangelical theological society, 28(2), June, 141-151. Available at: http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/28/28-2/28-2-pp141-151_JETS.pdf (Accessed 27 July 2014).

Fee, G D 1988. New international biblical commentary: 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus. W W Gasque (ed). Peabody, Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
You read that exactly for what it says.I believe you will find that the Word of God says women should not take authority in the Church such as Pastors,Deacons.It is then definately a no from the Word of God for them to become Bishops
 
1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
You read that exactly for what it says.I believe you will find that the Word of God says women should not take authority in the Church such as Pastors,Deacons.It is then definately a no from the Word of God for them to become Bishops
Kathi,

Now please go on further than vv 11-12 to 1 Tim 2:13-15 (ESV):

For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.​

I have heard of some godly women who continued in faith, love and holiness who have died during children bearing. Please tell me how women can be saved through childbearing?

Paul, in writing to Timothy, is dealing with false teaching/heresy in Asia Minor. In 2:14 he uses the language of 'deceived' and it seems it has some connection with the false teaching. He tells some things about this 'different doctrine':

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith (1 Tim 1:3-4 ESV).​

It is sometimes difficult for us (and I'm included in the 'us') to understand what in this letter is designed to try to deal with a current false teaching and what is permanent. Because of the difficulty in understanding 'women will be saved through childbearing' (which is an obscure kind of statement), it seems that this and the issues relating to women to remain quiet and in full submission and not to teach and have authority over a man (2:11-12) could be Paul's correction of false doctrine in that church.

I think that the church has been far too adamant about the silence of women in ministry and not to teach and have authority over men, that we have closed down gifted women in ministry.

And I want to say that as a preacher and teacher, I am disgusted with some of the blokes (men) I have heard in pulpits here in Oz and in the USA (where I lived for 7 years) who were pathetic excuses for preachers. I grieve over the nonsense and poor presentations I've had to put up with in churches that I have attended. I wonder if any others can identify with some of the poor excuses we have accepted from males who have preached.

Oz
 
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How are the Levites pastors of flocks?
Am I missing something?

In the OT they were the only ones that I know of who would have been teaching the Torah. They were assigned to different locations and they lived there with the people except for a few weeks out of the year when they went to Jerusalem to serve. Remember they were one of the tribes of the 12 so there were many of them. I can't remember how many were in Jerusalem at the same time all year round but they took turns going there.
 
In the OT they were the only ones that I know of who would have been teaching the Torah. They were assigned to different locations and they lived there with the people except for a few weeks out of the year when they went to Jerusalem to serve. Remember they were one of the tribes of the 12 so there were many of them. I can't remember how many were in Jerusalem at the same time all year round but they took turns going there.

Who are they and what were they doing there and who were they serving and what did they teach?
And does any of that directly imply that they were pastoring flocks?
 
Who are they and what were they doing there and who were they serving and what did they teach?
And does any of that directly imply that they were pastoring flocks?

Tribe of Levi, the priests, serving God, Torah

What do pastors do, teach the Bible. They taught the Bible.

As far as I know this is accurate info. from the Bible. I can't think of anyone else who would have been doing it. Can you?
 
Tribe of Levi, the priests, serving God, Torah

What do pastors do, teach the Bible. They taught the Bible.

As far as I know this is accurate info. from the Bible. I can't think of anyone else who would have been doing it. Can you?
rabbis, the levites weren't always fathful remember that ezra wasn't a priest nor was nememiah. david knew the law and taught it. yet how could have known it. the Pharisees weren't levites.
 
rabbis, the levites weren't always fathful remember that ezra wasn't a priest nor was nememiah. david knew the law and taught it. yet how could have known it. the Pharisees weren't levites.

Rabbi just means teacher so that could be anyone, not necessarily the Levite.

But in this case we are actually referring to the structure that was set up for the church. So the Levites whether they were faithful or not, were they the ones that God intended, in the beginning,
to have teach the people Torah where they lived among the people?
Was the Levite the one who oversaw the people in his area? If not who did?
 
Rabbi just means teacher so that could be anyone, not necessarily the Levite.

But in this case we are actually referring to the structure that was set up for the church. So the Levites whether they were faithful or not, were they the ones that God intended, in the beginning,
to have teach the people Torah where they lived among the people?
Was the Levite the one who oversaw the people in his area? If not who did?
the parents taught the torah to the kids, not the levites. look it up when ever the children of isreal were in captivity the parents were commanded to teach their kids and all other things.
 
the parents taught the torah to the kids, not the levites. look it up when ever the children of isreal were in captivity the parents were commanded to teach their kids and all other things.

During captivity I can see that would be the case. I'm thinking even before that about in Deut. I found one of the things I have read about this.

"In Deuteronomy, with a view to entering the land, the Levites were given an additional duty since their tabernacle transport obligations would be diminished. It was now the important duty of the Levites and the levitical priests, who would live throughout the land, to instruct the people in the law ( Deut 33:10 )."
http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/levite.html
 
see exodus 18. the Sanhedrin is based on that idea. 70 men out of isreal to judge matters and to teach the torah.
 
Thanks, I will allenwynne this all started because of you. :cool2
Paul taught the different gifts, some were pastors, some were teachers.
Pastors could teach and preach but they were to oversee the flock.
A noble task indeed.
But were the Levites ever given this task or were they to always point towards God?
"The Lord is my shepherd"...

I ask this because I don't see it, I may be wrong.
 
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