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Church

TRUTH over TRADITION said:
There is 1 bride, but many are invited to the wedding feast. What is the difference between the chosen guests and the bride? This issue has been ignored but could in fact be a BIG DEAL.
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Should we each join a church and participate in the church?
 
elijah23 said:
Should we each join a church and participate in the church?
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Should we, maybe, maybe not? We are not obligated by scripture to do so. Now for some, attending "church" is the way they fellowship with other believers which is a requirement of scripture. I am personally hesitant about JOINING a church because the church is for all intents an purposes a corporate institution with tenets and creeds of its choosing which declares them to be God's will. Very dangerous ground to stand on.
 
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
Should we, maybe, maybe not? We are not obligated by scripture to do so. Now for some, attending "church" is the way they fellowship with other believers which is a requirement of scripture. I am personally hesitant about JOINING a church because the church is for all intents an purposes a corporate institution with tenets and creeds of its choosing which declares them to be God's will. Very dangerous ground to stand on.
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There is no perfect church, I am sure, and it seems to me there is a certain amount of social climbing that goes on in churches, both in the laity and clergy.

Still, church gives us an opportunity to publicly show our appreciation to the Lord for what he does for us. There are some great people in churches for us to befriend. Our children can be taught about the Lord. We can serve our community through the church.

I don’t know if anyone need officially “join†a church. Just being active would be good enough, perhaps.
 
elijah23 said:
There is no perfect church, I am sure, and it seems to me there is a certain amount of social climbing that goes on in churches, both in the laity and clergy.

Still, church gives us an opportunity to publicly show our appreciation to the Lord for what he does for us. There are some great people in churches for us to befriend. Our children can be taught about the Lord. We can serve our community through the church.

I don’t know if anyone need officially “join†a church. Just being active would be good enough, perhaps.
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I generally agree with your statement, but one issue I have seen with church participation is that folks have a tendancy to pass over their christian responsibility to the church.
Here are some examples.
People give money to churches so that churches can use the funds to serve and the people DO NOT serve.
People invite folks to church to hear the gospel rather than spend time with people studying the scriptures personally.
 
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
Should we, maybe, maybe not? We are not obligated by scripture to do so. Now for some, attending "church" is the way they fellowship with other believers which is a requirement of scripture. I am personally hesitant about JOINING a church because the church is for all intents an purposes a corporate institution with tenets and creeds of its choosing which declares them to be God's will. Very dangerous ground to stand on.
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What is the Biblical precedent?

Do we find any Christians outside of a community, a church? If not, one is hard pressed to call themselves "Christian" and not belong to a church - if they understand that the Bible is the background and paradigm we use to call ourselves Christian.

This is "Americanism" at work here. "I can do it alone"...

Regards
 
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
I generally agree with your statement, but one issue I have seen with church participation is that folks have a tendancy to pass over their christian responsibility to the church.
Here are some examples.
People give money to churches so that churches can use the funds to serve and the people DO NOT serve.
People invite folks to church to hear the gospel rather than spend time with people studying the scriptures personally.
Click to expand...
So, if I may ask, where do you fellowship? In Hebrews it tells us quite succinctly to not stay away.

Heb 10
" 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

Do you have any fellowship at all, or do you rely on private interpretation? When I'm at church, I'm aware that my presence could be used as encouragement. When we gather, a worshiping congregation of believers can encourage someone who's struggling. I've needed it before, and I feel I owe it to my fellow members to pass this encouragement on.
 
From previous posts have said, and quoted of what the Word of God tells us, why should we not go to church? We are commanded never to stop meeting and having fellowship together. When Christians gather together it is a church. I see, and Paul also did indeed see immense value in corporate worship.

The question should not be why, but rather, why not. Ephesians clearly lays out what is the purpose of coporate worhsip and fellowship with other believers and its important place in bulding up and serving the Body of Christ, and advancing in knowledge of God's Word, and coming before Him in unity, praising the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

Of course churches and denominations have thier doctrinal beliefs and creeds etc which they stand on, but here's the rub - everyone, even through private interpretation cannot get it perfectly right. There's no perfeclty right denomination, church or liturgy, but the Word of God lays foundations and commands us to put those into practice, for the good of ourselves, our brothers and sisters, and the ulimtae advance of the Kingdom and all Glory to God! :amen

The church that I attend has all kinds of events that it runs. I'm currently attending a week-long conference to help us in our different ministries, and they run seminars on all kinds of things from ministering to Generation Y to predestination, systematic theology, women's ministry, kids ministry, the Holy Spirit, overseas missions etc etc. It's basically like a 12 hour per day for five days of exended church/bible study on different topics. This has been incredibly encouraging, beneficial and challenging to me personally and to how I minister.

My church also has support groups for people struggling with pornography and homosexuality, as well as small Bible study groups, and the list goes on. The support networks that churches offer for both building up and maturing the Body of Christ and outreaching to the lost is invaluable.

So, corporate worship....why not?
 
francisdesales said:
What is the Biblical precedent?

Do we find any Christians outside of a community, a church? If not, one is hard pressed to call themselves "Christian" and not belong to a church - if they understand that the Bible is the background and paradigm we use to call ourselves Christian.

This is "Americanism" at work here. "I can do it alone"...

Regards
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I think that we must recognize that there is a vast difference between what a church is, and what the christian community referenced in scripture was. As far a 'belonging to a church;' what church did the 1st century christians belong to? Did the Eunich of Acts 8 have to found a church in Ethiopia, then join it is order to be right?
The community aspect of sainthood is something that is unavoidable, for a christians, we are commanded to love one another, bear one another's burdens, encourance one another, be hospitable to one another, etc. All of this can be done with or without the corporate institution we know as the church that Jesus, Paul, and the 1st century saint would probably not even recognize.



MIKE -
So, if I may ask, where do you fellowship? In Hebrews it tells us quite succinctly to not stay away.

Heb 10
" 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

Do you have any fellowship at all, or do you rely on private interpretation? When I'm at church, I'm aware that my presence could be used as encouragement. When we gather, a worshiping congregation of believers can encourage someone who's struggling. I've needed it before, and I feel I owe it to my fellow members to pass this encouragement on.
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I'm glad you asked this question, because as stated, christians are commissioned to be involved in one another's lives. I, though I no longer "belong" to any church do frequent churches and bible studies as they provide a good place to meet with others who wish to serve the lord. I also engage in home fellowships where we study the scriptures, talk about our lives, eat, and encourage one another in an intimate setting.
What I have found is that open discussion and dialogue leads to more in depth study and understanding of the scriptures than what one typically get from a Sunday church service where an audience is "preached" to by someone giving a virtual monologue.
I am not an advocate of tithing and being compelled to give money to some church. What I have done and encourage others to practice is setting aside some of what God has blessed us with to help others. This can be done by keeping lists of believers in one's area who are sick and shut in, having financial difficulties, or having any kind of struggles and sending them direct help be it a check to cover bills, a home cooked meal, or some of your time in person where they can see your smiling face and feel the love of Christ coming from you (and me) as we give of ourselves bountifully.
 
Nick said:
So, corporate worship....why not?
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How is corporate worship defined? If it's simply meeting with likeminded people for the purpose of edification, then I'm all for it, BUT if it is based on the practice of rituals and ceremonies that cannot be agreed that ultimately lead to division because this group says this is worship, while that group says that is worship, then I see it as unfruitful and a cause of division and strife within the brotherhood of believers.
It is my contention that the corporate church, though it may do much good, has been the source of far more ills than Jesus ever intended. Because of the corporate church we have had inquisitions, wars, more religious persecution, and above all, DIVISION. Eliminating the corporate church and the power structure it creates would in my opinion eliminate many of the ills mentioned above and also end the class separation that exists in religion between the clergy and the laity.
 
This is not a difficult question at all, if we decide to read what the Bible tells us about the church :
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church....

So the body of Christ is the church.
 
Cornelius said:
This is not a difficult question at all, if we decide to read what the Bible tells us about the church :
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church....

So the body of Christ is the church.
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Unfortunately because of how we've come to use and understand terms like "church", it is a deeper matter. If what we mean by church is people, specifically Jesus' called ones, then it would be simple, BUT since the term 'church' provokes thoughts of a corporate institution run a hierchy of people that individuals must join in order to reap the blessings of God, we must distinguish.

Soooooooooooooo, the Body of the Anointed One, Christ, is equal to the people, His called out, and it is NOT equal to the corporate institution that many of His called ones happen to frequent.
 
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Cornelius said:
This is not a difficult question at all, if we decide to read what the Bible tells us about the church :
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church....

So the body of Christ is the church.
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But what of the local church?
 
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