[__ Science __ ] Climate Alarmism

[AIG.com]

Five reasons not to believe climate alarmism claims when they ignore major relevant data in favor of economy-crippling regulations.

Continue reading...

 

[Barbarian]

Five reasons not to believe climate alarmism claims when they ignore major relevant data in favor of economy-crippling regulations.

Continue reading...

Lots of errors there.
1. Warmer isn't necessarily better. The prolonged drought in the Western U.S. is badly damaging agriculture. It's going to get worse. Warmer climate means less snowpack in the mountains and less water in rivers in the west. And the aquifers are losing water at a level that can't be sustained, meaning wells are going to run out, also. It's already a problem in California. Some places like North Africa and Canada will do better. But the U.S. is going to do worse.

2. A NASA scientist, James Hanson, accurately predicted the warming climate over 30 years ago. And he erred slightly because we didn't know all the forcings at the time. But the error underestimated the warming trend. It's worse than the early models indicated.

3. More CO2 in the atmosphere will not produce more food. Turns out, it actually reduces the nutritional value of crops:
In the largest study yet, Samuel Myers of Harvard University and colleagues report that the CO2 levels expected in the second half of this century will likely reduce the levels of zinc, iron, and protein in wheat, rice, peas, and soybeans. Some two billion people, the researchers note, live in countries where citizens receive more than 60 percent of their zinc or iron from these types of crops. Deficiencies of these nutrients already cause an estimated loss of 63 million life-years annually.

High CO2 Makes Crops Less Nutritious | Nat Geo Food

Climate change could make crops less rich in zinc, iron, and protein, a new study suggests.

www.nationalgeographic.com

4. Climate alarmists are constantly screaming that any attempt to reduce carbon emissions will harm economies. But there is no evidence whatever to support that. In fact, in states like Washington, green alternatives to power generation have resulted in the some of the lowest costs for power in the United States.

If your business needs lots of power you’ll love Washington State. We offer businesses the largest coordinated hydroelectric system in the world. Nearly 75% of our power is derived from the many rivers that flow through the state and the state’s legislature has mandated that 100% of all energy be derived from clean power sources by 2045. Energy costs can run as low as 2.88¢ per kWh and average 4.13¢ per kWh statewide for industrial customers, some of the lowest rates in the nation.

Washington State Energy Rates Lowest in the Nation

With 73% of its power coming from a renewable hydroelectric power grid, Washington has the lowest state energy rates for industrial use in the U.S.

choosewashingtonstate.com

 

[hawkman]

3. More CO2 in the atmosphere will not produce more food. Turns out, it actually reduces the nutritional value of crops:
In the largest study yet, Samuel Myers of Harvard University and colleagues report that the CO2 levels expected in the second half of this century will likely reduce the levels of zinc, iron, and protein in wheat, rice, peas, and soybeans. Some two billion people, the researchers note, live in countries where citizens receive more than 60 percent of their zinc or iron from these types of crops. Deficiencies of these nutrients already cause an estimated loss of 63 million life-years annually.

High CO2 Makes Crops Less Nutritious | Nat Geo Food

Climate change could make crops less rich in zinc, iron, and protein, a new study suggests.

www.nationalgeographic.com

And wouldn't you know Bill Gates is trying to save the day . Genetic modified crops, I am thinking, the link is dead .
From the link you shared .
"Recent efforts by the U.S. Agency for International Development and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to breed rice and other crops with enhanced nutrition under current atmospheric CO2 levels have shown some success, he notes. But those efforts haven't been without setbacks. "There's been some indications that when you do that, you often suffer yield declines," Myers says. "So it's not entirely clear that you can have your cake and eat it too."

Follow the money . Man made "Climate Change" is all about the transfer of what little money the average people have to the governments and the wealthy . Eat zee bugs !

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

This is a subject that has given me pause for quite a while now. I agree that the earth is experiencing a warming trend. I understand that the warming trend is melting glaciers. I can see the droughts all across the world in various and many places. All of this leads to the inescapable conclusion that the earth's atmosphere is warming.

The problem I have is with assigning blame and understanding the consequences. I know that God created the earth as a place for man to live and His word tells me that it will not be destroyed until the time when God destroys it, by fire. Ah hah! So, this could be God's getting the earth all tuned up to burn pretty quickly. Or, this could just be regular cycles and safety processes that God put into His creation that would prevent all those people with wicked hearts from destroying what He has made.

Is it possible that God, since He's the one who has already told us will be the one destroying the earth, built the atmospheric properties to do what they are doing to vent some of the poisonous air that we have created around us? I mean, we're not going to die of sunstroke or something. The current thinking is that there will be more forest fires. OK, while that does destroy, in some places, people's homes, to us, that's a bad thing. We're told that there will be more catastrophic atmospheric events. Ok, I don't particularly like hurricanes and tornados, having lived right in the heart of each, they aren't much worse than any other deadly atmospheric or aquatic threat. They happen! If they happen more, maybe God is trying to tell us something.

So, I'm saying that I'm not so much sold on the idea that the conditions of the earth and its atmosphere are much damaged by the works of mankind as some seem to think. But, certainly treating the earth better isn't a bad thing.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Barbarian]

And wouldn't you know Bill Gates is trying to save the day . Genetic modified crops, I am thinking, the link is dead .
From the link you shared .
"Recent efforts by the U.S. Agency for International Development and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to breed rice and other crops with enhanced nutrition under current atmospheric CO2 levels have shown some success, he notes. But those efforts haven't been without setbacks. "There's been some indications that when you do that, you often suffer yield declines," Myers says. "So it's not entirely clear that you can have your cake and eat it too."

Yes, there have been some attempts to breed new varieties that might not do so badly with elevated CO2 levels. But it's not going well right now. It's one of the things Gates is funding to deal with the reality. But it's not magic. It's going to take time, and seriously damaging crops a large portion of mankind depends on, is a bad thing.

Follow the money . Man made "Climate Change" is all about the transfer of what little money the average people have to the governments and the wealthy . Eat zee bugs !

Not at the moment. It's mostly private money funding attempts to deal with this problem. And yes, Gates is one of the biggest donors to farmers who are most affected by this effect of global warming:

Agricultural Development | Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

Our goal is to support farmers and governments in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia that are seeking a sustainable, inclusive agricultural transformation.

www.gatesfoundation.org

I don't think he sees it as "transfer of money from average people."

 

[Barbarian]

Hi all,

This is a subject that has given me pause for quite a while now. I agree that the earth is experiencing a warming trend. I understand that the warming trend is melting glaciers. I can see the droughts all across the world in various and many places. All of this leads to the inescapable conclusion that the earth's atmosphere is warming.

The problem I have is with assigning blame and understanding the consequences. I know that God created the earth as a place for man to live and His word tells me that it will not be destroyed until the time when God destroys it, by fire. Ah hah! So, this could be God's getting the earth all tuned up to burn pretty quickly. Or, this could just be regular cycles and safety processes that God put into His creation that would prevent all those people with wicked hearts from destroying what He has made.

Turns out, James Hanson was able to accurately predict the rise in global temperatures based only on the amount of carbon dioxide humans would put into the atmosphere. So we know humans are doing this.

 

[jasonc]

Turns out, James Hanson was able to accurately predict the rise in global temperatures based only on the amount of carbon dioxide humans would put into the atmosphere. So we know humans are doing this.

Yeah and the climate change politicians buy land on flood prone shorelines .hmm.

Im tired of endless debating on the usual rounds .look as you know my hobby is history .I could post old Spanish maps and the British and American survey maps of Florida and compare .

These are so accurate you can overlay google imagery to see changes .

I know I have seen it.i posted a few of Dade county,current Martin and wpb counties and parts of okeechobee.

From discovery to about WW2 little changes .we dredged and created inlets ,that did more then our warning trend .

In ft Pierce ,the old inlet is pepper beach park ,the storms closed that ,and the current one was opened by the u.s.army corps of engineers .

 

[miamited]

Turns out, James Hanson was able to accurately predict the rise in global temperatures based only on the amount of carbon dioxide humans would put into the atmosphere. So we know humans are doing this.

Hi Barbarian

Didn't mean to imply that they weren't responsible for some of the things that have caused the earth's atmosphere to go into this warmer season.

Here's what I know, according to man's science. 50 million years ago was an ice age. 50 million years from now there may be another. Seems obvious to me that the planet does pretty naturally go through some pretty extreme temperature changes because of ... something! Was it too much auto exhaust that ended the last ice age and made the earth warmer?

God bless,
Ted

 

[Barbarian]

Here's what I know, according to man's science. 50 million years ago was an ice age. 50 million years from now there may be another. Seems obvious to me that the planet does pretty naturally go through some pretty extreme temperature changes because of ... something! Was it too much auto exhaust that ended the last ice age and made the earth warmer?

It's true that the Earth's climate fluctuates over the ages. The issue is that for the first time, humans are doing it. For example, we are in a solar sunspot minimum at this time. It should be getting cooler, due to lowr solar output. But human-produced CO2 is now overriding the natural cycle, and it's getting warmer instead of cooler.

That's the issue.

 

[hawkman]

Not at the moment. It's mostly private money funding attempts to deal with this problem. And yes, Gates is one of the biggest donors to farmers who are most affected by this effect of global warming:

Donate money to get even more money in return . Weaponized philanthropy .
A closer look at Bill Gates
"As Dr. Mercola wrote, Gates does not practice philanthropy, but rather “philanthrocapitalism.” Not only does Gates wield incredible influence in the tech and vaccine world, but Mercola noted that he also mirrors this power in “agriculture and food policy (including biopiracy and fake food), weather modification and other climate technologies, surveillance, education and media.”

This was supported by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who wrote that Gates practices “weaponized philanthropy,” a tactic he employed “to resuscitate his reputation after the Microsoft antitrust case exposed him as a lying, cheating, thieving, manipulator intent on felonious monopoly control of global information conduits.” With Gates’s own personal net worth increasing to nearly $130 billion, his much advertised “philanthropy” has proven to be personally profitable.

The accumulation of wealth comes at a cost, although not to Gates himself. In 2004 the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF) partnered with the Rockefeller Foundation in the $424 million Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA), supposedly to increase food productivity and incomes, while lowering food insecurity. Gates forced the local farmers to abandon their traditional techniques, and instead use imported commercial seeds, petroleum fertilizers and pesticides, for which he supplied the infrastructure."

He also pressured African governments into large spending and made them use draconian penalties and authoritarian control to force farmers to buy his expensive inputs and comply with his diktats.

Nutrition and productivity dramatically declined, and a 2020 report, “False Promises: The Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA)” revealed that in the countries Gates selected, extreme hunger had increased by 30%.

The Corbett Report noted that “the 9,000,000 people who die every year of hunger would be best served by securing food supplies, running water and other basic necessities, not costly medical interventions for rare diseases. But there is no return on investment to be made from that kind of charity.”

 

[Barbarian]

Im tired of endless debating on the usual rounds .look as you know my hobby is history .I could post old Spanish maps and the British and American survey maps of Florida and compare .

These are so accurate you can overlay google imagery to see changes .

Here's what has happened to Florida so far:
How sea level rise is pushing up groundwater in South Florida and making flooding more common How is sea level rise pushing up groundwater in South Florida and making flooding more common? Research associate professor at the Institute of Environment at Florida International University Randall Parkinson explains the issue.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article259021453.html#storylink=cpy

U.S. Geological Survey testing shows saltwater has continued to migrate into South Florida’s aquifer system. Nearly one-third of 215 monitoring wells showed a five-year trend of increasing salinity with just 16 showing a downward salinity trend. (Test results at many other wells also showed increasing chloride levels, but those were not viewed by government hydrologists as a significant trend.)

The Geological Survey began special monitoring in Florida in the 1940s when wells too salty for drinking became common. Records since reflect a relentless salting of South Florida, a threat both to drinking water and to the environment.

Salt levels in Florida’s groundwater rising at alarming rates; nuke plant is one cause

South Florida’s flooding streets get the attention, but what is happening beneath the surface presents clear — and in some cases eye-popping — evidence of another threat: saltwater intrusion.

cnsmaryland.org

It's already here. And absent a change in the way we do things, it's going to get worse.

 

[Barbarian]

The results speak for themselves, between 2002 and 2005, cocoa production in Ghana, the world’s second largest producer, doubled from 350,000 tons a year to 734,000 tons a year, a record in more than a century of cocoa farming in the country.

From thereon, my government successfully used many of the same techniques to improve production for food crops such as maize, yams, and plantains, as well as livestock and fish. As a core strategy, my administration also strengthened and tasked Ghana’s Grains and Legumes Development Board with the mandate to supply quality seeds and planting materials to farmers in order to improve the quantity and quality of Ghana’s agriculture produce. Altogether, my administration worked tirelessly to support irrigation, improve seeds and crop diversification, infrastructure, storage for harvest and created an enabling environment for farmers to access mechanization like tractors.

In 2007, during my second term in office, the late Mr. Kofi Annan, launched the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA), an African institution that sought to support governments to catalyse transformation of smallholder agriculture by advancing uniquely African solutions to sustainably raise farmers’ productivity and connect them to a growing marketplace. AGRA has evolved into a powerful force and tool for the transformation of our continent.

AGRA’s approach to fostering an inclusive agricultural transformation approach has been to convene, catalyse and broker local partnerships to support African governments to prioritize agriculture, allocate adequate resources to support smallholder farmers to access information, appropriate technology, and sustainable market and at the same time; creating enabling business environment to leverage private sector investment.

Over the last decade, including Mali, Rwanda, Ghana and Tanzania, I have seen countries where AGRA has been supporting governments, come through on their AUC CAADP Malabo targets by committing 10% of national expenditure to agriculture. A select number of these countries have each successfully achieved an annual growth rate of 6% with their respective agricultural sectors. A couple more are striving to achieve SDG 2 (zero hunger) by end of 2021.

With various ongoing efforts thus far at national levels in strengthening Africa’s agricultural sector, I have no doubt we could achieve a food secure Africa by 2030 if African institutions like AGRA and its partners continue to proactively double-down on their efforts to make that happen.

Given the urgency of ensuring the food security for Africa and its people, we cannot afford any delays in implementing the right policies to ensure success. Africa cannot wait. Now is the time for an African agriculture transformation. This requires an efficient eco-system that unlocks the right policies, public investments and private sector engagement; spurs rural-sector economic growth and; which can deliver broad and accelerated impacts for all.

At the level of the smallholder farmer, there is a need to develop a digitized extension system, across which the continent’s smallholder based agro-industry, can in turn, enable a seamless transition from subsistence farming to profitable agriculture.

Africa’s smallholder farmers are the linchpin to economic success - AGRA

Food is the most basic of needs. It decides not just the health of individuals but also the health of communities which affects the health of our economies. Underpinning the food we eat, is agriculture which accounts for at least 23% of sub-Saharan Africa’s GDP with about 40% of the workforce...

agra.org

It's true that there are people in the West who would like to see African nations to continue with subsistenance agriculture that would maintain the colonial arrangement with the developed world. Like the British wanted the American colonies to continue as sources of raw materials without developing their economies to the point that they would compete with British industries. Those are the people opposing AGRA.

It's a losing proposition. Africa will develop over time. But aid to farmers in transitioning to a western-style agricultural environment will reduce the pain with which that process will go forward.

 

[jasonc]

Here's what has happened to Florida so far:
How sea level rise is pushing up groundwater in South Florida and making flooding more common How is sea level rise pushing up groundwater in South Florida and making flooding more common? Research associate professor at the Institute of Environment at Florida International University Randall Parkinson explains the issue.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article259021453.html#storylink=cpy

U.S. Geological Survey testing shows saltwater has continued to migrate into South Florida’s aquifer system. Nearly one-third of 215 monitoring wells showed a five-year trend of increasing salinity with just 16 showing a downward salinity trend. (Test results at many other wells also showed increasing chloride levels, but those were not viewed by government hydrologists as a significant trend.)

The Geological Survey began special monitoring in Florida in the 1940s when wells too salty for drinking became common. Records since reflect a relentless salting of South Florida, a threat both to drinking water and to the environment.

Salt levels in Florida’s groundwater rising at alarming rates; nuke plant is one cause

South Florida’s flooding streets get the attention, but what is happening beneath the surface presents clear — and in some cases eye-popping — evidence of another threat: saltwater intrusion.

cnsmaryland.org

It's already here. And absent a change in the way we do things, it's going to get worse.

The barrier island is on sand.look I don't need to pay via taxes some govt study when my own uncle and fil surveyed my area .

Fil said rt 60 as his job was the one who cleared it was built in a marsh .

Miami was part of the everglades .the Spanish saw that and settled Only on the high grounds which was Pensacola and st Augustine . Until the last few decades a large swathe of the center of the state because it had to be drained first was reversed unsurveyable.

Look nasa literally filled the cape to put launch pads.old communities are not put in marshlands .they on that area where on the high grounds the center of the cape was a marsh .

But let's ignore what the Spanish observed and why they decided not to settle Florida .because it was a marsh .

So NASA can relocate to Edwards AFB ,white sands and also other places afar from the ocean .if not I'm buying it.florida water is buried under porous limestone .most water I drink is well above the aquifer.its shallow wells the aquifer is less hit by salt water .

Lake Wales to Ocala is a high point .ocean made .level Disney move NASA there .

Sorry these co2s won't be touched by these idiotic pushes for electric as well china is exempt and using coal .

The Miami river had a spring and water fall .it was once above where it was .we dredged the higher parts of that and he we are .

I can post a map of Dade showing how close the glades got to the intercoastal.it touched it near west palm.

My county where I live was under water and had to be drained .the high points became lumber and cypress farms .

 

[miamited]

It's true that the Earth's climate fluctuates over the ages. The issue is that for the first time, humans are doing it. For example, we are in a solar sunspot minimum at this time. It should be getting cooler, due to lowr solar output. But human-produced CO2 is now overriding the natural cycle, and it's getting warmer instead of cooler.

That's the issue.

OK, but see the problem that I'm having is that I believe that God has always known the end from the beginning. Under that understanding, when God made the earth and the atmosphere that surrounds it, He also knew what mankind was going to do, after all that whole 'go forth and multiply' thing surely God knew we were going to pretty much take over the earth, He didn't build for that?

You mean that if we don't fix this problem with the earth, all of the prophecies of the last days won't ever come to pass because we will have destroyed ourselves before God was ready? Uhhhh, I don't think so. I believe that we should all be reasonably responsible in caring for the planet, but some idea that we're somehow going to destroy the planet with our meddling? Naaaaa!

So, I'm fine with taking some precautionary measures, but I'm not really sold on this idea that we have to completely change how we live or else we're going to destroy the earth.

BTW, I don't know, but I'm willing to ask. When was the last time before this 'period' that we were in a 'solar sunspot minimum'?

God bless,
Ted

 

[Barbarian]

OK, but see the problem that I'm having is that I believe that God has always known the end from the beginning. Under that understanding, when God made the earth and the atmosphere that surrounds it, He also knew what mankind was going to do, after all that whole 'go forth and multiply' thing surely God knew we were going to pretty much take over the earth, He didn't build for that?

I suppose that He knew that Belshazzar would commit sacrilege and thereby doom his city and many of its people as it was taken by the Medes and Persians. So I don't doubt that he knew mankind would turn out to be a faulty steward of His Earth. Doesn't mean there won't be consequences.

 

[Barbarian]

You mean that if we don't fix this problem with the earth, all of the prophecies of the last days won't ever come to pass because we will have destroyed ourselves before God was ready?

I doubt if mankind will be wiped out over this. It's just going to be a lot more interesting for a lot of people. And hardships for many. In some places, it might actually get better. The lands just south of the Sahara are greening up, even as the American Gulf Coast and Far West are being damaged.

BTW, I don't know, but I'm willing to ask. When was the last time before this 'period' that we were in a 'solar sunspot minimum'?

We do have records on that. The Medieval "little ice age" was about 14th to 19th century. A period of significantly colder than usual climate.

 

[miamited]

Hi Barbarian

I doubt if mankind will be wiped out over this. It's just going to be a lot more interesting for a lot of people. And hardships for many. In some places, it might actually get better. The lands just south of the Sahara are greening up, even as the American Gulf Coast and Far West are being damaged.

That's pretty much my point. God created this planet. He created it for a place for man to live. I'm confident that the planet, and the people on it, will survive until God brings it to an end.

We do have records on that. The Medieval "little ice age" was about 14th to 19th century. A period of significantly colder than usual climate.

Well, that's not actually true, is it? We actually have reduced sunspot activity in pretty regular 11 year cycles. There have been many, many 'minimum sunspot activity' periods and the earth did not appreciably heat up or cool down during any of them. Yes, there was one period where we have no record of any sunspots for 30 years...let me repeat that for emphasis...30 years, and there are claims that it resulted in the 'little ice age'. However...that isn't agreed upon by, I think it's most scientists that study that field.

So, there really doesn't seem to be any real proven correlation between sunspot activity and the temperature of the earth as far as your claim that the earth should now be cooling because we are in one of the regular 11 year cycles of sunspot activity.

I'm just sayin'

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again Barbarian

I suppose that He knew that Belshazzar would commit sacrilege and thereby doom his city and many of its people as it was taken by the Medes and Persians. So I don't doubt that he knew mankind would turn out to be a faulty steward of His Earth. Doesn't mean there won't be consequences.

Of course He did! He actually sent a finger to write on the wall before it happened that it was going to happen and Daniel told him that it would be that very night!! You think God was surprised? I mean God knew, right then when Daniel was reading the very words on the wall, that the Medes were digging a bypass for the river so they could climb under the wall there. Then they were overtaken by the Medes and Persians just like God used Babylon to overtake and take captive the people of Israel for their disobedience.

Get this! God even told Daniel, in another vision, that the king, Nebuchadnezzar would go mad and live as a wild beast for 7 years...before the king had even cursed God and the prophecy came to pass.

And you're right. How man treats the earth will have consequences. But it won't destroy the earth and whatever hardship it creates, man will overcome. It's what we do.

God knows the beginning from the end. You see, God knew the Babylonian empire would fall. Remember, it was the head of gold. God also knew that the Medes and Persians would also fall. God knew that the Greek empire would fall, and the Roman empire. He knew all those empires that were going to come upon the earth would rise and fall long before any of them, except Babylon, even came to exist.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Barbarian]

And you're right. How man treats the earth will have consequences. But it won't destroy the earth and whatever hardship it creates, man will overcome. It's what we do.

Right. It's very unlikely that humans will make the entire Earth uninhabitable. But much of it will be less habitable as human-caused warming proceeds. This is already happening. would you like some examples?

No doubt, this isn't a surprise to God. But that's not license to blame him for our poor stewardship.

 

[Barbarian]

We do have records on that. The Medieval "little ice age" was about 14th to 19th century. A period of significantly colder than usual climate.

Well, that's not actually true, is it?

Yeah, actually it is...
It has long been understood that low sunspot activity is associated with lower solar output and thus less energy available to warm Earth’s surface. Two periods of unusually low sunspot activity are known to have occurred within the Little Ice Age period: the Spörer Minimum (1450–1540) and the Maunder Minimum (1645–1715). Both solar minimums coincided with the coldest years of the Little Ice Age in parts of Europe. Some scientists therefore argue that reduced amounts of available solar radiation caused the Little Ice Age.

Little Ice Age | geochronology

Little Ice Age (LIA), climate interval that occurred from the early 14th century through the mid-19th century, when mountain glaciers expanded at several locations, including the European Alps, New Zealand, Alaska, and the southern Andes, and mean annual temperatures across the Northern...

www.britannica.com

It's true that even the usual sunspot cycle used to produce variations in global temperatures. But during the "little ice age", we had to profoundly deep sunspot minima. And that seems to be the largest effect. Volcanism also contributes to colder climate. But this shows that serious minima make a big difference.