[__ Science __ ] Climate Alarmism

Don't remember ww1 or 2 or Korea but the rest I do remember seeing it on the news.
I wished I asked aunt ella more on old Florida and her days as a child labor .

My grandpa ,her younger brother told me a few things about the Dixie hwy that was one of the first high ways built
He said in 1927 he would drive his model a from nagetuk ,CT to wpb it,it took days and said in Florida it was mostky dirt roads.us1 and us27.irc.
I have hunted the old us1 there is a brick road he had to drive near Daytona .and also a few older locations in my county and ft.pierce,a tiny section
 
My aunt in law born in 28 .she has photos of old Florida that go back a hundred years .
 
I wished I asked aunt ella more on old Florida and her days as a child labor .

My grandpa ,her younger brother told me a few things about the Dixie hwy that was one of the first high ways built
He said in 1927 he would drive his model a from nagetuk ,CT to wpb it,it took days and said in Florida it was mostky dirt roads.us1 and us27.irc.
I have hunted the old us1 there is a brick road he had to drive near Daytona .and also a few older locations in my county and ft.pierce,a tiny section
Yea quite a bit wasn't even dry, alot of wetlands until humans started draining and filling in with dirt making roads then communities.
 
Everytime the weather changes someone calls climate change. We'll it is climate change. The earths climate is and always has been changing. Dangerous planet in a dangerous universe.

No one can deny climate change but human involvement I think it's minimal. We having floods at moment, blaming climate change, we been having floods for ever not like it's anything new.
 
Here is an interesting article on carbon dioxide and global warming.

A few extracts (my emboldening):
"2. Revealing statements from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

In 2007 the IPCC Assessment Report 4 contained the following statement in the chapter by Working Group 1 : " The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system and therefore the long term prediction of future climate states is not possible

And it was further confirmed in 2010 by Ottmar Edenhofer Chairman of the UN – IPCC Working Group 3 who said " One must say clearly that we redistribute de-facto the world's wealth by climate policy..... One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy any more". (link in http://bit.ly/2QaeDsr). When it became clear during the temperature pause, 1999 onwards, that the forecasts were not supported by the empirical data, Professor Chris Holland of the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research said: "The data doesn't matter. We are not basing our recommendations on the data. We are basing them on the climate models." Refer to note 16 for model reliability. Such quotes are never mentioned in the news media."

7. The life of CO2 in the atmosphere is short

There are 37 scientific papers which have examined the life of CO2 in the atmosphere. In 35 of them the findings varied between 3 years and 7 years. One of them found 25 years (Suess&Lal 1983). One of them found in excess of 100 years. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) chooses to take 100 years . This is never mentioned in the news media.

9. Water vapour is the main warming gas and forms 95% of all the warming gases

Water vapour is beyond the control of man. Water vapour has a substantial warming effect. Interestingly water vapour in the form of clouds has both a warming and a cooling effect. The net effect varies due to the nature of clouds. This is never mentioned in the news media.
 
In 2007 the IPCC Assessment Report 4 contained the following statement in the chapter by Working Group 1 : " The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system and therefore the long term prediction of future climate states is not possible
I notice that James Hanson of NASA accurately predicted warming over 30 years in advance, using only atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide. So "long term" is a very long time, indeed.

There are 37 scientific papers which have examined the life of CO2 in the atmosphere. In 35 of them the findings varied between 3 years and 7 years. One of them found 25 years (Suess&Lal 1983). One of them found in excess of 100 years. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) chooses to take 100 years . This is never mentioned in the news media.
Yeah. Why do you think there was a difference in the outcomes between doing nothing and doing something? It matters. As long as we keep putting in more than the system can remove, it's going to accumulate more. If we stop, it will won't go up. How long will it take? That's still unclear.

9. Water vapour is the main warming gas and forms 95% of all the warming gases

Yep. The only reason carbon dioxide has such an effect is that it absorbs infrared radiation at wavelengths other greenhouse gases do not. And because the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is not rapidly increasing. If warming leads to thawing of permafrost, and release of all the methane frozen therein, carbon dioxide may become a secondary concern.
 
I imagine that we're talking very, very, very minute amounts of energy.
I have a niece who is working on her Master’s degree in Business from Harvard (online). She has developed a paint that absorbs CO₂. Personally, I find it hard to imagine her paint absorbing enough CO₂ to significantly impact global warming. To enhance its appeal, they are also emphasizing its non-toxic properties.

Right now, they claim there is a multi-billion-dollar market for this type of paint. I estimate it will sell for around $80 per gallon. So while the environmental benefits may be questionable, there’s certainly nothing small about the amount of money they stand to make from the hype.
 
I have a niece who is working on her Master’s degree in Business from Harvard (online). She has developed a paint that absorbs CO₂. Personally, I find it hard to imagine her paint absorbing enough CO₂ to significantly impact global warming. To enhance its appeal, they are also emphasizing its non-toxic properties.

Right now, they claim there is a multi-billion-dollar market for this type of paint. I estimate it will sell for around $80 per gallon. So while the environmental benefits may be questionable, there’s certainly nothing small about the amount of money they stand to make from the hype.
Including your niece it would seem.
 
Because my point is that ...19 cesisus less then a degree in f.

You wouldn't notice the need to avoid using ac.

Your are asked to reduce usage here .when a heat wave hits it has strained grids to where they must charge more .imaging a day with 95 degrees and you can't run ac in a house because of rationing .modern homes unlike pre mcm homes are built to avoid large spaces with air flow .

Look up a dog trot house,shot gun house and those have breezeway designs so that are could flow in one direction and large windows .

Humidity for tomorrow's forecast makes 81 feel like 85,in the shade it's dropped by one degree.

Would you pay all that money for power to charge your electric car to not maje a dent ?

In the UK the cost of charging your ev is the same as paying for gas .because the cost of power is that high .
One of the biggest issues is poor building science. Built properly, homes could use significantly less energy. Building to Passive House standard, for example, means a building (house; multi-family; commercial; institutional) will use about 10% of the energy of a conventional building, with little need for ac or active heating. Solar panels could then make up much or all of the power needed.
 
One of the biggest issues is poor building science. Built properly, homes could use significantly less energy. Building to Passive House standard, for example, means a building (house; multi-family; commercial; institutional) will use about 10% of the energy of a conventional building, with little need for ac or active heating. Solar panels could then make up much or all of the power needed.
you would have to make that use what in Florida for heat?

oil or gas ,reverse AC is gonna use alot of power .

Florida even with its sun ,most net meters seldom actually pay back .fpl large solar farms seldom work enough to produce power .
 
Building to Passive House standard, for example, means a building (house; multi-family; commercial; institutional) will use about 10% of the energy of a conventional building, with little need for ac or active heating.
HI Free

One of the things I know about people, in general, is that they want to save money. So, I'd ask why we're not using these standards you mention if it's going to save the consumer money? I know I've read that we can build hurricane proof homes, but the cost to do so would be exorbitant compared to a standard built home with merely hurricane mitigation techniques as compared to hurricane proof techniques.

You believe that the Waldorf Astoria building in New York could run on 10% of the energy that it uses now? You believe that 10 story tower inner-city apartments could work efficiently with only 10% of the energy such a building uses now? You believe that the nations Capital could run on 10% of the energy that it now uses?

I hope that you realize that 'passive HOUSE standard' sounds like it would only work basically on private homes.

So, you think we should all find a place on the earth where we can build a million single family homes in the dirt for insulation? And while I agree that adding additional insulation and better windows will help, I don't think you'll ever drop 90% of a home's energy use through such methods. When the homeowner considers that new windows for most mid-sized homes would cost anywhere from 15k to 30k and adding insulation probably 10k or so, most homeowners aren't willing to take on that cost to save $20 on their energy bill every month. It takes a long time to recover 30-40k dollars worth of investment at $20/month.

Now, new homes, maybe we can put in better insulation and windows and it wouldn't hurt so bad, financially, at the time of building, but as a rule, most of us want housing to be reasonably affordable and so building out with a lot of extra costs for energy savings that generally take years to recover the costs aren't well accepted by buyers.

I looked up this 'passive home' construction and it seems that it's really not particularly popular the world over. According to the work I read on it, there's only about 60k homes worldwide! that have been built or are attempting to adopt these standards. That's not a lot of homes on a planet with homes for 8 billion people. And for the record, the large majority of these homes are in the Scandinavian countries.

There are always little things that the few of the rich can do that the rest of us will never seek to accomplish. My electric bill last month was $75. I'm not about to spend several thousands of dollars to save $20 of that bill. I doubt I would be willing to do so even if I really could cut my electric bill down to $7 (10% of bill). If I spend 15k replacing my windows and adding insulation it would take me 62 years to recover my expense at a savings of $20/month. And 18 years IF I could whittle my bill down to 90% or its current cost.

Let me ask you, do you know how much cost is added to a 2500sf new home build if using these standards that you mention?
 
HI Free

One of the things I know about people, in general, is that they want to save money.
That is one of the problems: most people think in terms of ROI (return on investment) alone, rather than balancing that with what is simply what is the right thing to do, or what is the best thing to do. Not to mention that it is far more than just about money. It's about year-round comfort by maintaining the same temperature; it's about health, due to very low dust and no mould; it's about building longevity since, if it's built right, it won't have mould, rot, or insect issues. Less maintenance means lower costs in the long-term.

So, I'd ask why we're not using these standards you mention if it's going to save the consumer money?
One of the main problems is industry. Industry in general can be very resistant to change and so is very slow to adopt new methods and technologies. This is often because "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." If what they do "works," then why change? Of course, that is often just ignorance of how relatively poor things are built compared to what they could be. And industry is usually powerful and can lobby governments to be able to keep doing what they're doing.

There are jurisdictions of various sorts, such as cities, around the world where Passive House (PH) is the standard for any new building.

I know I've read that we can build hurricane proof homes, but the cost to do so would be exorbitant compared to a standard built home with merely hurricane mitigation techniques as compared to hurricane proof techniques.

You believe that the Waldorf Astoria building in New York could run on 10% of the energy that it uses now? You believe that 10 story tower inner-city apartments could work efficiently with only 10% of the energy such a building uses now? You believe that the nations Capital could run on 10% of the energy that it now uses?

I hope that you realize that 'passive HOUSE standard' sounds like it would only work basically on private homes.
It may sound like it, but that is far from the truth. There are single family and multi-family dwellings, large office buildings, apartment buildings, schools, supermarkets, and social housing. In my province there is even a car dealership that is certified PH.

Here is good example that wasn't a new build, but a retrofit (EnerPHit in Passive House talk), reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 94%:

https://www.eraarch.ca/projects/ken-soble-tower-transformation/

(EnerPHit is a slightly more relaxed standard than PH, as it is much more difficult to hit the targets of PH in an existing building, largely due to the difficulties in achieving a low enough airtightness and reducing thermal bridges.)

The best part is, it's for seniors. Just like other jurisdictions in the world where all social housing has to be built to the PH standard, this gives some of the poorest the cheapest bills. From a Christian perspective, that helps the poor by being a good steward of earthly resources.

Another example:

https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/coal-harbour-project-phase-2.aspx

"Passive House certification is an internationally recognized certification for ultra-low energy buildings that generally require 90% less heating energy and 60% less overall energy than typical buildings in Vancouver."

So, you think we should all find a place on the earth where we can build a million single family homes in the dirt for insulation?
I'm not sure what you mean building "in the dirt for insulation."

And while I agree that adding additional insulation and better windows will help, I don't think you'll ever drop 90% of a home's energy use through such methods.
Not through those two things alone, no. But windows are the best bang for the buck, as they account for 25-30% of residential heating and cooling costs, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. There are a number of additional things to reduce energy use, such as increasing airtightness, reducing thermal bridging (where materials transfer heat, in various ways, through walls, roofs, etc.), and having good ventilation, typically using an HRV which can recover upwards of 90% of heat already in a building (must be minimum 75% for PH).

When the homeowner considers that new windows for most mid-sized homes would cost anywhere from 15k to 30k and adding insulation probably 10k or so, most homeowners aren't willing to take on that cost to save $20 on their energy bill every month. It takes a long time to recover 30-40k dollars worth of investment at $20/month.
That's a huge oversimplification. For one thing, windows built to PH standards are going to last far longer than standard windows. You'll be replacing standard windows two or three times, minimum, before you replace PH windows, as long as the installation was done correctly. As I stated already, a house built properly to the standard will have no maintenance issues as far as the structure is concerned.

But, it also depends on where one lives and the energy costs, as well as the size and design of the building. The U.S. may have relatively cheap energy compared to other places in the world. Even then, the monthly cost is going to vary depending on where one lives in the U.S. Florida has a very different climate than Phoenix, Colorado, and Chicago. In many locations, it can and does save people hundreds of dollars a month on their heating and cooling costs.

Now, new homes, maybe we can put in better insulation and windows and it wouldn't hurt so bad, financially, at the time of building, but as a rule, most of us want housing to be reasonably affordable and so building out with a lot of extra costs for energy savings that generally take years to recover the costs aren't well accepted by buyers.
And that is a problem with buyer mentality, rather than being willing to pay additionally for the right reasons or consider the other benefits. The main benefit is significantly lowering energy use and the stress on the environment. Of course, the more people that build to that standard, the cheaper it becomes for everyone.

I looked up this 'passive home' construction and it seems that it's really not particularly popular the world over. According to the work I read on it, there's only about 60k homes worldwide! that have been built or are attempting to adopt these standards. That's not a lot of homes on a planet with homes for 8 billion people. And for the record, the large majority of these homes are in the Scandinavian countries.
First, that isn't just homes, as I pointed out earlier, but it does include many multi-family buildings. Second, if people don't know about it, and most don't, they aren't going to build to it. Third, many people in the world live in very poor countries, where many don't even really have homes. Looking at the map, it's easy to see that most PH buildings are in wealthier countries. If it's hard to get a standard home built in a poor country, then a PH is likely going to happen.

Yes, a large majority are in colder climates because they work really, really well. The bonus is that if the power ever goes out in the dead of winter, the house will never reach freezing, so no burst pipes. But some are also in hot climates because as long as they're built accordingly, they work well to keep the heat out.

There are always little things that the few of the rich can do that the rest of us will never seek to accomplish. My electric bill last month was $75. I'm not about to spend several thousands of dollars to save $20 of that bill. I doubt I would be willing to do so even if I really could cut my electric bill down to $7 (10% of bill). If I spend 15k replacing my windows and adding insulation it would take me 62 years to recover my expense at a savings of $20/month. And 18 years IF I could whittle my bill down to 90% or its current cost.
For sure. I am not at all rich and live in a 1,050 sqft (above grade), 1980's townhouse. My electric bill last month was $126. That's cheap for where I live, and that's summer (winter obviously gets more expensive). Single family homes are regularly in the hundreds of dollars just for electricity, which typically is only used to heat the home by providing energy to a furnace running natural gas.

Let me ask you, do you know how much cost is added to a 2500sf new home build if using these standards that you mention?
It's going to depend on where it's built, as temperature and humidity determine what materials and amounts of those materials are needed, and the overall design. But, take the city of Vancouver in Canada, for example, for which any new municipal building must be built to Passive House standards. Building there to that standard has come down to around 2-7% additional cost over a building built to common industry standards.

If someone is building a new house, 2-7% additional cost isn't really much at all. If I remember correctly, there have been some that have built for right around the same cost.
 
That is one of the problems: most people think in terms of ROI (return on investment) alone, rather than balancing that with what is simply what is the right thing to do, or what is the best thing to do. Not to mention that it is far more than just about money. It's about year-round comfort by maintaining the same temperature; it's about health, due to very low dust and no mould; it's about building longevity since, if it's built right, it won't have mould, rot, or insect issues. Less maintenance means lower costs in the long-term.


One of the main problems is industry. Industry in general can be very resistant to change and so is very slow to adopt new methods and technologies. This is often because "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." If what they do "works," then why change? Of course, that is often just ignorance of how relatively poor things are built compared to what they could be. And industry is usually powerful and can lobby governments to be able to keep doing what they're doing.

There are jurisdictions of various sorts, such as cities, around the world where Passive House (PH) is the standard for any new building.


It may sound like it, but that is far from the truth. There are single family and multi-family dwellings, large office buildings, apartment buildings, schools, supermarkets, and social housing. In my province there is even a car dealership that is certified PH.

Here is good example that wasn't a new build, but a retrofit (EnerPHit in Passive House talk), reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 94%:

https://www.eraarch.ca/projects/ken-soble-tower-transformation/

(EnerPHit is a slightly more relaxed standard than PH, as it is much more difficult to hit the targets of PH in an existing building, largely due to the difficulties in achieving a low enough airtightness and reducing thermal bridges.)

The best part is, it's for seniors. Just like other jurisdictions in the world where all social housing has to be built to the PH standard, this gives some of the poorest the cheapest bills. From a Christian perspective, that helps the poor by being a good steward of earthly resources.

Another example:

https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/coal-harbour-project-phase-2.aspx

"Passive House certification is an internationally recognized certification for ultra-low energy buildings that generally require 90% less heating energy and 60% less overall energy than typical buildings in Vancouver."


I'm not sure what you mean building "in the dirt for insulation."


Not through those two things alone, no. But windows are the best bang for the buck, as they account for 25-30% of residential heating and cooling costs, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. There are a number of additional things to reduce energy use, such as increasing airtightness, reducing thermal bridging (where materials transfer heat, in various ways, through walls, roofs, etc.), and having good ventilation, typically using an HRV which can recover upwards of 90% of heat already in a building (must be minimum 75% for PH).


That's a huge oversimplification. For one thing, windows built to PH standards are going to last far longer than standard windows. You'll be replacing standard windows two or three times, minimum, before you replace PH windows, as long as the installation was done correctly. As I stated already, a house built properly to the standard will have no maintenance issues as far as the structure is concerned.

But, it also depends on where one lives and the energy costs, as well as the size and design of the building. The U.S. may have relatively cheap energy compared to other places in the world. Even then, the monthly cost is going to vary depending on where one lives in the U.S. Florida has a very different climate than Phoenix, Colorado, and Chicago. In many locations, it can and does save people hundreds of dollars a month on their heating and cooling costs.


And that is a problem with buyer mentality, rather than being willing to pay additionally for the right reasons or consider the other benefits. The main benefit is significantly lowering energy use and the stress on the environment. Of course, the more people that build to that standard, the cheaper it becomes for everyone.


First, that isn't just homes, as I pointed out earlier, but it does include many multi-family buildings. Second, if people don't know about it, and most don't, they aren't going to build to it. Third, many people in the world live in very poor countries, where many don't even really have homes. Looking at the map, it's easy to see that most PH buildings are in wealthier countries. If it's hard to get a standard home built in a poor country, then a PH is likely going to happen.

Yes, a large majority are in colder climates because they work really, really well. The bonus is that if the power ever goes out in the dead of winter, the house will never reach freezing, so no burst pipes. But some are also in hot climates because as long as they're built accordingly, they work well to keep the heat out.


For sure. I am not at all rich and live in a 1,050 sqft (above grade), 1980's townhouse. My electric bill last month was $126. That's cheap for where I live, and that's summer (winter obviously gets more expensive). Single family homes are regularly in the hundreds of dollars just for electricity, which typically is only used to heat the home by providing energy to a furnace running natural gas.


It's going to depend on where it's built, as temperature and humidity determine what materials and amounts of those materials are needed, and the overall design. But, take the city of Vancouver in Canada, for example, for which any new municipal building must be built to Passive House standards. Building there to that standard has come down to around 2-7% additional cost over a building built to common industry standards.

If someone is building a new house, 2-7% additional cost isn't really much at all. If I remember correctly, there have been some that have built for right around the same cost.
America has Leeds and it makes no sense for me to do the right thing by selling ,aka junking my functional work trucks to get a car that will cost more then my mortgage and not even last in my hands as long as my house .


can't find hoses at times for cars older then a decade that can't be cut from standard hose lengths .fuel ,vaccum and air .

my mortgage today is less then 95 k . buying a decent car that I won't have to fix will have me paying more . I own both trucks .
I'm 52 ,my wife 66 in America banks won't loan my wife money because simply put might die meaning if I die ,and she can't get a new more efficient home .they won't lend it .her daughter sells trailers and she can't get loans for seniors over 62 .

if my truck works .my home is safe why spend to save energy when well you really don't save ?

borrow money to save what next to nothing ?

went there with my ac ,what savings I did get in energy was consumed a few years later by utility increases.

my ac unit was fixable but I was forced to buy a new and they only last ten years .
 


I don't think it's code but there local buildings that meet that and one was a bank of mine across from city hall .
 
Hey jasonc
my ac unit was fixable but I was forced to buy a new and they only last ten years .
Yeah, I get it. My unit's about 20 years old and every time I have someone out to service it, which has only been twice in 5 years, I'm told that I need to replace it because of its age and the refrigerant that it uses. So far I haven't needed any refrigerant, the problems have been switches and such. My electric bill is reasonable, and I just have a hard time justifying some $7,000. bill for a new unit for what mine is presently costing me. And I'm cool and comfortable in my home.

But I know the day is likely near that I will have to replace it. If the compressor goes or I somehow need to replace the refrigerant, then the cost might be justified to replace the unit. It also has a gas fired heater which I like better than the heat pump units that are being pushed today. I had two heat pump units in my old house and when the temperature drops below 20° it usually went into 'emergency mode' meaning I was paying for electric heat which is likely the most expensive heat one can buy. It takes a lot of juice to run resistance coils for heat.
 
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