[_ Old Earth _] Climate change

[Corn Pop]

Rigged

 

[MSchultz]

Interesting statement.
kiwidan, when you state 'rigged', are you referring to Climate Change not existing or merely the fact that the Government manipulates the data to create an illusion of Climate Change?

 

[Eugene]

Rigged

For some years I worked in air conditioning & heating, and with the supposed increase of chloroflouorocarbon (CFC)s in the atmosphere were thought to be attributing to changing our weather patterns. Very quickly laws were passed to create new tools and methods for capturing, and/or recycling (CFC)s to save our planet. All technicians were required to take schooling, be tested, carry a license, and purchase a very expensive list of tools. It took little or no time at all for anyone that could make money off the new technology to pile on the lobbying efforts. Would you consider these all to have vested interest? It sure wasn’t me pushing for change that even science couldn’t agree on. Some politicians seem to have increased wealth as the result: could we really believe they would take advantage of us?

 

[Cygnus]

The result of Noahs flood was an ice age.....the warm waters from the earth gathered around the poles an precipitated forming the ice caps.
That was only 4,000 years ago.
Job 38:29-30 may be referring to the ice age.
29"From whose womb has come the ice? And the frost of heaven, who has given it birth?30"Water becomes hard like stone, And the surface of the deep is imprisoned

I would think as we move forward in time and the ice caps melt...it might get a tad bit warmer....but is man expediting it?
I have to say nope....and agree with the statement of MShultz. "Government manipulates the data to create an illusion of Climate Change"

 

[Barbarian]

For some years I worked in air conditioning & heating, and with the supposed increase of chloroflouorocarbon (CFC)s in the atmosphere were thought to be attributing to changing our weather patterns.

As far as I know, all CFCs do in the atmosphere is degrade the ozone layer. (Barbarian checks)

Yep. CFCs are remarkably stable and low toxicity, so they don't present a pollution problem. Unfortunately, their stability means they can persist long enough to get into the high atmosphere, were solar radiation can cleave a chlorine atom, producing a highly reactive gas that catalyzes the breakdown of ozone to the normal diatomic oxygen molecule.

So why is this a problem? Ozone shields the Earth from UV radiation, which causes cataracts and skin cancers. It has only become a significant hazard in high laititudes, but was gettng worse when the CFC bans were put in place.

Very quickly laws were passed to create new tools and methods for capturing, and/or recycling (CFC)s to save our planet. All technicians were required to take schooling, be tested, carry a license, and purchase a very expensive list of tools. It took little or no time at all for anyone that could make money off the new technology to pile on the lobbying efforts. Would you consider these all to have vested interest? It sure wasn’t me pushing for change that even science couldn’t agree on. Some politicians seem to have increased wealth as the result: could we really believe they would take advantage of us?

I doubt if any politician got rich on this. In fact, as per Senator Inhofe, it appears that denial is a lot more lucrative than bringing up a problem. You see, corporations generally have a lot more money to spread around than scientists do. Which is why we had the "we pay for bad science" scandal:

Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world's largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report due to be published today.


Letters sent by the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), an ExxonMobil-funded thinktank with close links to the Bush administration, offered the payments for articles that emphasise the shortcomings of a report from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).


Travel expenses and additional payments were also offered.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/feb/02/frontpagenews.climatechange

Always look for the money.

 

[Hospes]

Always look for the money.

Doesn't almost all the funding for higher education come from government largess via direct and indirect subsidies? If you make it nefarious that industry funds research, shouldn't you do the same for all the research funded by our government in it's institutions of higher learning.? And the funding by government goes well beyond "travel expenses and additional payments"; lifelong careers of research are paid for by the government.

 

[Eugene]

.
Good morning Brother Barbarian, your response is interesting, and thanks. In a partial refute of the intents of men and money, I submit Al Gore. The following article is probably as reliable as other political outlooks, but he sure has invested in a lot of green earth projects if I’m using the correct terms.

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/category/al-gore/

Al Gore develops $90 trillion scheme to rebuild every city to get rid of cars

by ElmerB on January 28, 2015 in Al Gore, socialism
By Mark Whittington, examiner.com The World Economic Forum occurring in Davos, Switzerland, held to discuss what its participants claim are vexing problems, has already been ridiculed for the large number of private planes that it has taken to bring the elites to the conference. But that little bit of hypocrisy is nothing compared to what […]

Al Gore: There needs to be a Political price for Climate 'Denial'
by Dan McGrath on September 25, 2013 in Al Gore, Extremists,Indoctrination, Loonies
Gore calls on his climate faithful to treat global warming skeptics like racists and homophobes By Ben Geman Former vice president Al Gore on Monday called for making climate change “denial” a taboo in society. “Within the market system we have to put a price on carbon, and within the political system, we have to […]

 

[Barbarian]

Doesn't almost all the funding for higher education come from government largess via direct and indirect subsidies?

Mostly grants from industries, last time I checked. (Barbarian checks again)

Not very current, but you get the idea. The vast majority of it is from companies who don't blatantly offer large sums of money for a result they want. However, as you see, industry has far greater financial effect on research than government does. Few of them would pay the kind of money I noted in my previous post, because they are merely interested in finding out the truth about something that could make them money. The denier group was simply attempting to bribe scientists to say something negative about the truth.

If you make it nefarious that industry funds research,

I don't. I find it nefarious that anyone would offer large sums of money to scientists to take a particular position. Fortunately, few of them are that easily corrupted. And those who are, quickly lose any credibility with their peers.

In what could turn out to be helpful news for the reality-based community, a new trove of documents show that one of the leading “scientific critics” of global warming has been funded directly by the fossil fuel industries. Wei-Hock Soon, who goes by “Willie,” has traded on his position as a part-time employee of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics to present himself as a legitimate scientist who’s simply not convinced that human activity is responsible for climate change, which has made him very popular with conservative groups and politicians. But documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request show that his research was directly paid for by industry sources, to the tune of over $1.2 million. Worse, he’s published at least 11 papers that failed to disclose those payments, a serious no-no in scientific ethics.


Say, New York Times, please share with us a paragraph that should make us all say “yikes!”


The documents show that Dr. Soon, in correspondence with his corporate funders, described many of his scientific papers as “deliverables” that he completed in exchange for their money. He used the same term to describe testimony he prepared for Congress.
http://wonkette.com/577141/climate-change-denying-scientist-is-bought-and-paid-for-surprise

And the funding by government goes well beyond "travel expenses and additional payments"; lifelong careers of research are paid for by the government.

Gotta admit, 1.2 million dollars is a lot of goodies. But except for the relatively few scientists who are actually government employees, they are largely funded by teaching positions in universities or by industry.

 

[Barbarian]

Good morning Brother Barbarian, your response is interesting, and thanks. In a partial refute of the intents of men and money, I submit Al Gore.

Sorry, not a scientist. So not so credible with me. What should be done about the problem is entirely different than the fact of the problem. I'm just pointing out the facts. My personal take is that we probably don't have the will to do anything sufficient until it gets so bad even the deniers get the message.

And I think that will take a long, long time, and lots of pain.

 

[jasonc]

R12 ,is more efficient gas at cooling then r134.r134 Is a worse green house gas. Freon which isn't r134 but R12 under the patent was produced ,and invented by dupont. R134 is also patented by them but the patent has expired.it was a 25 year one.now then the government allows people to charge their cars.imagine all that unchecked refrigerant vented into the air.I'm surprised the epa and California hasn't tried to cap that.

 

[jasonc]

So paying a person who job is writing grants isn't greed but paying a person to research a counter argument for climate change is?

Government, such a the one I work for use grants.I know this as most underground utilities weren't paid by the construction company nor homeowner here.most of the underground wiring has been in old areas.that isn't cheap.

 

[Obadiah]

I live where it's cold in winter. I welcome global warming and have asked Al Gore to send some more of it to us here in the Northwest. I'll bet those spending winters in the Midwest would agree too. :yes

 

[turnorburn]

Don't forget Fukushima... Man made radiation "lots of it" is causing things to heat up along with the other chemicals science has introduced into the earths environment.. just sayin...

 

[Edward]

Follow the money makes sense to me. I'm in HVAC also so follow this issue. I do not believe in climate change, it's all about the Benjamins.

From what I understand, anytime a volcano burps on earth, it dumps more CFC's into the atmosphere than has collectively been released into the atmosphere since the beginning of refrigerant manufacture & use. A lot more.

The HVAC industry was the last unregulated industry in the States. They wanted that money...

 

[jasonc]

Don't forget Fukushima... Man made radiation "lots of it" is causing things to heat up along with the other chemicals science has introduced into the earths environment.. just sayin...

Radiation from uranium is natural.it's refined. Besides microwave radiation is also something used for radar,radio communication. Am radio stations use enough power as fm does as well that if you were on it and they were at full power you would be fried.am stations are better for long range communication them fm bur that later is resistant to static electricity.ham radios can at full power over power and bleed through tv sets ,radios and game systems.I had a neighbor whose radio was that way.he got fined by the fcc.he would talk to people across the world.

 

[Edward]

...ham radios can at full power over power and bleed through tv sets ,radios and game systems.I had a neighbor whose radio was that way.he got fined by the fcc.he would talk to people across the world.

My friend used to do that with his (amplified) sideband radio, all over the world. He set it up on his car, so he could stay mobile and avoid being caught.

I remember going through Burger Kings drive through, and as he was ordering he keyed the mic...and it bled over and broadcast throughout the entire restaurant! Lol.

They freaked but we played dumb.

 

[jasonc]

My friend used to do that with his (amplified) sideband radio, all over the world. He set it up on his car, so he could stay mobile and avoid being caught.

I remember going through Burger Kings drive through, and as he was ordering he keyed the mic...and it bled over and broadcast throughout the entire restaurant! Lol.

They freaked but we played dumb.

Emp pulses which could be employed in a manner like that is for another thread

 

[turnorburn]

There is a massive pool of warm water in the Gulf of Alaska, NOAA scientist Nate Mantua said in an email. It is unprecedented in the historical record, he added… the past year is way out of the historical range — “so who knows what will happen?”…

Scientists across NOAA Fisheries are watching a persistent expanse of exceptionally warm water spanning the Gulf of Alaska that could send reverberations through the marine food web. The warm expanse appeared about a year ago and the longer it lingers, the greater potential it has to affect ocean life… “Right now it’s super warm all the way across the Pacific to Japan,” said Bill Peterson, an oceanographer with NOAA.

These are certainly record high temperature levels. Bob Tisdale, a manmade climate change skeptic, has an excellent summary of this situation here.

This report here, by Howard Freeland and Frank Whitney, was linked to in the Enenews post.

In March 2014 there was something very unusual occurring in the Northeast (NE) Pacific that might have substantial consequences for biota in the Gulf of Alaska and southward into the subtropics… we see SST departures of 4.5 standard deviations… The anomaly field covers a large region of the N.E. Pacific… The authors of this article have never seen [such] deviations… Something as extraordinary as a 4.5-sigma deviation requires corroboration…

An increase of 4.5-sigma in sea surface temperatures is about one-fifth the probability of being dealt a straight flush in five-card poker, and twice the probability of being dealt a royal flush. In other words, it is wildly improbable that it is a result of a natural process.

The answer is that Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has releasing extremely radioactively contaminated water, starting in March 2011. The worst part was at the beginning. By early April 2011, humungous levels of iodine-131 and cesium-137 had been released.

Radioactive iodine at 7.5 MILLION times legal limit in water around Fukushima — Cesium-137 at 1.1 MILLION times limit


… Tokyo Electric Power Company says it detected 300,000 bequerels of iodine-131 per 1 cubic centimeter, or 7.5 million times higher than the legal limit in samples taken around the water intake of the No. 2 reactor at 11:50 AM on Saturday.

It also found 200,000 bequerels or 5 million times higher than the limit in samples taken at 9AM on Monday.

http://optimalprediction.com/wp/fuk...on-is-rapidly-warming-north-pacific-seawater/

 

[turnorburn]

Can't get this at the pharmacy anymore.. the day of the Fukushima mistake my pharmacy was highly suggesting we take it to help protect our thyroids.. then just like that it disappeared.. said they couldn't order it anymore.. Funny that last night my neighbor asked me if i was taking it.. he knew lots of folks know.. Radiation the silent killer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_effects_from_the_Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster

i found J. Crows Lugol's Solution of Iodine 2% 2oz. bottle on line "Get some" you'll be glad you did.. radioactive Iodine 131 will do you a world of hurt..

 

[Corn Pop]

With man nothing we get told can always be 100% truth because man fails. So I have to look into everything to confirm. Most of the time it just comes down to personal opinions we get told to believe.

When I see a trend in a graph I have to ask how relevant it is. If science says the earth is 4 billion years and show a 100 year trend graph as a reson for something, its a grain of salt and im going to laugh.

If there was a ice age, why use another excuse for the melting ice caps and warmer waters.

I believe in climate change and pollution does not help in other ways, but the earth is in its natural cycle.