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Cloning

Rollo Tamasi

Warrior for Christ
Member
This is with us today.
All types of cloning.
Are "fake" humans on the horizen?
Are they already here and we don't know it?
What is your take on all this and where does Gods' word fit in?
 
This is with us today.
All types of cloning.
Are "fake" humans on the horizen?
Are they already here and we don't know it?
What is your take on all this and where does Gods' word fit in?

... and they will mingle with the seed of men...
Daniel 2:43

JLB
 
This is something that I hope I never live to see in full operation.

I would say its definitely something on the horizon.As time goes by and people are further desensitized to various procedures,the bar of acceptability continues its upward creep.Just a short time ago people were in uproars over stem cell research and other such.Now were eating govt approved,genetically modified vegetables and meat.Animals were already cloned years ago,so it only stands to reason that at some point we will begin to hear utterance of what is,in reality,likely already occurring.Ive read about several examples of beneficial technology emerging which we found out later had been researched and implemented within the military years prior.

Governments fight and claw to stay one step ahead of each other in everything from intelligence to weapon research and development.Just speaking hypothetically on this,it stands to reason that if human cloning can be perfected,it would be a way to dramatically increase the current standing military numbers,with its primary assignment being a proxy fighting force..possibly even viewed as expendable.Not only that,but Im sure that while breeding these human clones there would be some tinkering at the genetic level in an attempt to produce a troop that was superior to its basic human counterpart in terms of strength,intelligence,speed,etc.

Disturbing stuff.

The most disturbing thought associated with such a being would be a question of the soul.Would a lab-created human possess one?Would it display traits common to normal people..remorse,range of emotion,etc?Part of me wants to say that if it lives then surely Gods hand is still involved somehow for that spark of life to be possible.But these are questions we wont have the answers for until someone comes forth with the announcement that human life has indeed been cloned.Sad thing is it will be too late at that point to do much about it.
 
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This could be ignorance on my end, but isn't cloning just the copying of genes? So baiscally if you cloned me, the person would look exactly like me (same body type, looks, etc.). But that just effects the body. The body is a worldly thing and the spirit is the human part. I heard this somewhere once: we do not have souls. we are souls and our souls have bodies.

So cloning someone only means our that unique spirit is living in a body that is exactly the same as someone else's.

I don't like the idea of cloning because it does seem to be against what God intended, but I also think if it happened the person still has a soul like everyone else.
 
The most disturbing thought associated with such a being would be a question of the soul.

That is the disturbing part. If scientists ever successfully cloned a human, and that human had normal functions, and they lived an average lifespan, worldwide religions will be in big trouble.
 
I don't think Daniel 2:43 can be applied to cloning.

Is God silent on this issue?

Are we missing something in scripture?
 
James 2:26.

Could this mean that clones would have a soul?

Or could it mean they would be the walking dead?
 
I dont think God is completely silent on the issue,though of course nothing is explicitly stated concerning cloning.

I believe we can look to the conscience in grey areas like this.I dont think its coincidence that such a subject clearly crosses a boundary of sorts.Though not specifically mentioned by the bible,most people have a sense of unease,distrust and revulsion.Are these negative vibes are a fear of the unknown..or are they more of a disgust of what it is subconsciously recognized as unnatural?

Genetically modified plants,particularly animals,are a very sketchy subject..and for many reasons.Some have already been stated here,but another thing that we wont know for many years are the long term side effects/dangers/ramifications of modifying living things.Science cant even cure the common cold and now its trying to carbon copy Grandma and Uncle Bob.These things could have shorter/longer life spans,have other health problems,etc.Now also imagine if one of these test-tube humans should breed with a natural one..what then would be the variables?

I just hope it never comes to pass..God only knows what the theological debates would look like as mentioned by another poster here.
 
The most disturbing thought associated with such a being would be a question of the soul.Would a lab-created human possess one?Would it display traits common to normal people..remorse,range of emotion,etc?Part of me wants to say that if it lives then surely Gods hand is still involved somehow for that spark of life to be possible.But these are questions we wont have the answers for until someone comes forth with the announcement that human life has indeed been cloned.Sad thing is it will be too late at that point to do much about it.

So how would the souls of cloned humans be different from those of humans conceived through medical procedures like in vitro fertilization?

A cloned human would be something like an identical twin to the original owner of the genes, although probably younger. If the clone embryo is carried to term by a woman and risen like a normal human being what would be un-normal about his/her soul? Identical twins have unique souls and personalities, even though they have all their genes in common, and (in most cases) their childhood experiences, too.

I'd be way more afraid of how mankind would treat clones than of soulless zombies from cloning.
 
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Claudya:

I don't know much about the issue, but I agree: the soul would be the same; all need the Savior.

Part of the ethical dilemma that some see would be that the result of cloning might be regarded as the legal property of some company; which is a hard idea.
 
Claudya:

I don't know much about the issue, but I agree: the soul would be the same; all need the Savior.

Part of the ethical dilemma that some see would be that the result of cloning might be regarded as the legal property of some company; which is a hard idea.

Again, I don't see the difference to today's in-vitro-fertilistation. Who do those embryos belong to if they are not implanted into their mother's womb to cause a pregnancy? If they are no longer needed, what shall be done with them?
It is an ethical dilemma, but it's not specific to a potential future cloning scenario. We already have that dilemma today.
 
Again, I don't see the difference to today's in-vitro-fertilistation. Who do those embryos belong to if they are not implanted into their mother's womb to cause a pregnancy? If they are no longer needed, what shall be done with them?
It is an ethical dilemma, but it's not specific to a potential future cloning scenario. We already have that dilemma today.

Claudya:

It seems odd that scientists want to puruse in vitro, while lots of abortions also take place.

But this is another subjects. (I think that abortion was the DDR's 'gift' to the Federal Republic, after Unification, right?)
 
So how would the souls of cloned humans be different from those of humans conceived through medical procedures like in vitro fertilization?

A cloned human would be something like an identical twin to the original owner of the genes, although probably younger. If the clone embryo is carried to term by a woman and risen like a normal human being what would be un-normal about his/her soul? Identical twins have unique souls and personalities, even though they have all their genes in common, and (in most cases) their childhood experiences, too.

IVF is much different,at least to me.Though much of the process occurs in a external,controlled environment there are natural materials involved.The baby still stems from actual sperm and eggs as far as I know.It appears that the only real tampering is removing the eggs,fertilizing them externally and replacing them whilst hoping for the pregnancy to take.

Cloning is an entirely different ballgame.To illustrate this Ill paste from an article with a shorter explanation of the process.

"The most common cloning method, known as "somatic cell nuclear transfer" or simply "nuclear transfer," requires two kinds of cell. One is a somatic cell, which is collected from the animal that is to be cloned (known as the "genetic donor"). A somatic cell is any cell other than a sperm cell or egg cell, and contains the complete DNA, or genetic blueprint, of the animal it came from. For cloning purposes, somatic cells are typically obtained by a routine skin biopsy performed by a veterinarian.

The other kind of cell required for cloning is an egg cell, which is collected from a female of the same species (known as the "egg donor"). In the lab, a scientist extracts and discards the nucleus of the egg cell, which is the part of the cell that contains the egg donor's genes. The scientist then inserts the somatic cell from the genetic donor into the egg and "fuses" the two with electricity. The resulting fused egg contains the genetic donor's DNA.

The scientist stimulates the fused egg, which "activates" the egg and causes it to divide just as an egg would if it had been fertilized by a sperm cell in conventional reproduction. The activated egg is then placed in a culture medium. As cellular division continues over the course of several days, a blastocyst (early-stage embryo) forms. After about a week, an embryo transfer specialist transfers the blastocyst to a recipient female (sometimes referred to as "surrogate mother") where it continues to develop. After a full-term pregnancy, the recipient gives birth to an animal that is essentially the identical twin of the genetic donor. "

As you can see an animal is basically Frankenstein'd into life by utilizing specifically selected and extracted cellular and DNA material and as stated "fused" through electrical means.Not exactly a natural creature.

I also partially agree on the soul issue.I figure im about 50/50 on the matter.On one hand I think any human life is a bit different than those of animals.As such just for that spark of life to be possible God would certainly have to be involved in some way.And then the other half of me really does wonder exactly what the spiritual outcome of a Franken-baby would be.With all the Extraction and splicing it seems like more of a creature than a person.As such,I believe that though we shouldnt unnecessarily condemn such a being it would merit a great degree of caution.

I'd be way more afraid of how mankind would treat clones than of soulless zombies from cloning.

Absolutely.I would bet that almost immediately any such person would regarded with revulsion and general distrust.As mentioned by Farouk,you may even have the "parent" company regarding it as property or an investment.All things considered,I believe the most ethical thing would be to leave that process to God and have our children naturally.
 
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