Bible Study Cometh this blessedness..

[dianegcook]

Uh.....it's an open forum!

Yep,
Anyone can tell me they are saved, but one has to do the walk, not the talk...
Satan believes in Jesus...

 

[Born Again 2004]

Satan believes in Jesus

No, he knows Jesus but he doesn't believe in him!
Do you believe in Jesus?....Why /How? So Satan believes is Jesus like you or does he just know Jesus?
He may "believe" in who Jesus is but believe in him no! There is a big difference!

 

[Kidron]

Sorry, it is hard for me when you react without clarity. It's YOUR words (Well, you wont be here if you are born again).... you didn't specify after the rapture....it gives he appearance that you meant that your not born again until rapture, especially when you added that rapture is when we are changed into the image of Christ...which is not true, we are created in Christ and he in us and the image there of, the day that we are saved! So, with all due respect, I will read more carefully when you write / explain more carefully!

Sounds good.

this is what i sadi..

YOU ARE BORN AGAIN INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND ARE " BEING CONFORMED INTO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST".
"BEING"........= IN PROCESS ......becoming...
YOU ARE NOT YET CONFORMED.
YOU ARE >BEING< CONFORMED. . ROMANS 8:28
WE ARE NOT Totally conformed until we get our resurrection body.
This has not happened yet. ...
So, the "being conformed", is explained in this verse...
"GOD who began a good work in you, will be faithful to complete it".. Philippians 1:6 .....the "Began" means to be COMPLETED as a process.......continually.
That is "being conformed into the image of Christ".
Its a process, and lasts a lifetime, or until we meet the Lord in the sky.

K

 

[Kidron]

Hi kidron
I agree, Christ saves you.
But...
If one does not walk in the Spirit, after being saved, what transformation has happened?
One does have free will and later on one can loose their faith.
I have seen it happen.
An atheist I knew on another forum, told me he had gotten saved once, but know rejects the existence of God..
Lost his faith....
That is why I believe the doctrine of OSAS is not sensible.
Also, I believe the so called rapture, is after the tribulation.
No where does it say, in 1Cor.15:52 and 1Thess.4:16,17 , that this occurs before the tribulation.
So if I am correct, which I think I am, :wink because of Matt.24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28, 2Thess.2:3, what if one takes the Mark of the beast?
Will God be pleased with them?

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There are.....
Many false reasons a person comes to a conclusion that they can lose their salvation,... so many things can be involved in their head, dianegcook.
It can be that 3 verses in Hebrews, that are spoken to Hebrews, conflict with 8 Full Epistles of Paul that teach otherwise to the Body of Christ..... yet the person holds on to 3 or 4 Hebrews "lose it" verses and ignores 7 or 8 full epistles of Paul spoken to the Body of Christ.
One thing about "rightly dividing the word" is that when you have 456 NT verses that all agree and 5 others that seemingly contradict those 456 that all agree, then choose wisely the 456
Some dont choose wisely....

So, It could be that a person's denomination teaches "losing your salvation" as a doctrine.
Maybe their mama told them they can "lose it".
It can be that a believer is so full of guilty condemnation because they are overwhelmed by their own sinning....and then the devil or his own on speaks to them and says....."how can you be saved now, look at all you've done, are doing, and you knew it was SIN, and you kept on doing it and doing it and doing it for YEARS and you knew it was SIN!!".
And they agree with the Devil, as Satanic condemnation is very very intense.
It is an actual fact that a person can feel lost and that they are going to hell, when in fact they are saved and going to heaven.
Now....Setting all those aside as a just few reasons, there is a main reason that someone believes that they can "lose it".
And that is, they dont believe that Jesus can "keep it".
Thats their issue., their main issue.
They read a verse that says that "Jesus is the author and <><finisher<>< of our Faith", and they DONT accept that this truth is the truth..... Hebrews 12:2
In other words, they have not been taught that the Blood Atonement is an eternal atonement, or that Jesus keeps them saved and that they dont do it for themselves.
C'mon...can you save yourself without the Blood and the Cross?.....but some will believe that they can keep themselves saved?.....This is throwing not only the Truth under the bus, but Logic right out of the window.
They have not been taught by a Teacher who can rightly divide the word, who can explain to them the truth about the Blood Of Christ and its eternally redeeming power.
Spiritual Teachers teach, God reveals.
Spiritual Teachers show the truth, but God turns on the Light of Revelation.
So, many of the "lose it" crowd...have absolutely not understood, or perhaps never have even read...or were taught.. these verses (Paul)

Romans 3:21-28
Romans 4:8
Hebrews 8:12

These people, these, "i can lose it" believers, have not been taught that Eternal Life, IS JESUS CHRIST.
He IS eternal life, and its not just some obscure obtuse definition of time.
But rather Jesus Himself, IS, Eternal Life.....and JESUS LIVES IN US.
So, that means, Eternal Life is within us, "Christ in you, the hope of Glory"" and the bible says that we the believers have become "bone of Jesus's bones, and flesh of Jesus's flesh".....we are "In Christ" who IS ETERNAL LIFE.
So, this is not going to change just because of a mindset or a horrible lifestyle or by what we say.
You cant get rid of The Lord Jesus The Christ in you, by what you do with your mind or your body or your mouth.
Not going to happen.

Listen, just before Jesus went to the Cross, he prayed "if possible Father, let this cup of judgment pass from me".
Yet, had he said instead...."i dont think i will do it".....then, He is still Jesus...He is still "God manifested in the Flesh"...He is still the Son of God BY BIRTH and not because of His DEEDS in the body or thoughts or speech.
See it?
Very important....

This next verse....is very important also when trying to understand Salvation as eternal, as it eliminates the main mistake that the "lose it" believers make in their salvation theology, and that is, that they are by some personal effort or work, trying to keep themselves saved.

Hebrews 9:12....but through HIS own BLOOD Jesus entered the holy place once and for all, > Having Obtained < = Eternal Redemption.
Now, do you see those 4?
Blood, Jesus, Having Obtained, Eternal Redemption...
Is that you keeping yourself saved, or is that JESUS keeping you saved by ETERNAL REDEMPTION ??
Notice the length of time that redemption lasts for the SAVED BELIEVER?
"Eternal".
So, that is how long, and why, and by who.....a person is saved... and that is why John 14:6 tells you that "Jesus is THE WAY", as there is no other WAY to be saved and kept saved, for eternity, then by the very ONE who is himself, Eternal LIFE.
This is why i always ask a believer... "IF you died today, WHAT are you TRUSTING to get you to heaven".
There is only one answer, and its not...."faith", and its not "commandment keeping or good works, or communion, or anything else".
Its JESUS. !!
He is the only Way to be saved, and stay saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It can be that 3 verses in Hebrews, that are spoken to Hebrews, conflict with 8 Full Epistles of Paul that teach otherwise to the Body of Christ..... yet the person holds on to 3 or 4 Hebrews "lose it" verses and ignores 7 or 8 full epistles of Paul spoken to the Body of Christ.

This is what Paul wrote to the church:
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are (presently) saved, if you (presently) hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

You are presently saved IF you are presently holding fast the word of the gospel which you first believed. That's what security is all about. Those who believe have the sure promise of salvation/eternal life, not those who are no longer holding fast the word of the gospel.

Anybody who has the courage to do so can confirm the parenthesis in the passage above at these links:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002
http://ezraproject.com/id27.html

 

[Kidron]

This is what Paul wrote to the church:
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are (presently) saved, if you (presently) hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

You are presently saved IF you are presently holding fast the word of the gospel which you first believed. That's what security is all about. Those who believe have the sure promise of salvation/eternal life, not those who are no longer holding fast the word of the gospel.

Anybody who has the courage to do so can confirm the parenthesis in the passage above at these links:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002
http://ezraproject.com/id27.html

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You are presently saved by what saved you when you were originally saved, OR you are not saved yet.

JB, you are teaching that "faith" saves you, and that is heresy.
You are telling people to trust in their FAITH or hold unto their FAITH as a way to save themselves, and that is deep deep error.
Listen...
Faith does not save you JB, ..GOD SAVED you, ..through the BLOOD of Jesus because.. "Jesus has obtained eternal redemption for us" on the Cross.
Hebrews 9:12
All Faith does, is RELEASE GOD TO SAVE YOU< and once that is done, you are eternally "Born Again".
You are not kept "born again" by Faith, JB , you are kept "born again" because it has happened, and it is completed.
"Born again" is not TEMPORARY, JB.
So, stop teaching Galatians 1:8.



K

 

[Jethro Bodine]

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You are presently saved by what saved you when you were originally saved, OR you are not saved yet.

It plainly says you are presently saved IF you are presently holding fast the word:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are (presently) saved, if you (presently) hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

Present holding fast of the word is the condition for salvation. The verb tense does not allow one to twist it to say, 'you are presently saved by past holding fast of the word'.

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...OR you are not saved yet.

Not being saved yet, if that's the case, does not make it so that presently holding fast the word is not the condition for those who are saved. Paul plainly sets the condition for presently being saved to that of presently holding fast the word. If one didn't really believe to begin with, all that does is make the condition for salvation irrelevant to that person.

JB, you are teaching that "faith" saves you, and that is heresy.

No, I'm saying what the Bible says....we are saved THROUGH our faith:

"we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand." (Romans 4:1-2 NIV)

It is through our ongoing faith that we are kept by God's power until the Day of Salvation:

"an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:4-5 NASB)

If telling people they can leave the faith and go back to their old lives of sin, even turning to Allah and they are still protected by God's power to be saved, and they listen to you and they do that, if that is not destroying the temple of God, what is, then, Kidron, what is?

 

[Kidron]

I

No, I'm saying what the Bible says....we are saved THROUGH our faith:

No, you are not.
Here is what you are saying......"WE are continuing to be save ourselves if we dont lose our FAITH that is saving us".
THAT is what you are saying, and that is not the truth,
Why do you not comprehend that the word SAVED, = means FINISHED?
Do you have a dictionary?......try using it.
Listen...
If you are SAVED FROM DROWNING, are you still drowning if you dont have faith to keep from drowning?
No, ... because you are already SAVED from Drowning.

See that D on the word SAVED. ??????????
TAKE A LOOK !!
This is why you are not in a process of saving yourself, (If you dont lose your faith).

So, your theology removes God's finished work of Christ that SAVED, and you have substituted the Blood Atonement with your (Faith to keep saving yourself), when God has already SAVED you.
You are taking credit away from the Savior who SAVED YOU, and are instead giving it to your "faith" to do it, and are trying to get others into this trap.
JB< you are not "being saved by faith"......you are ALREADY SAVED BY THE BLOOD AND THE CROSS AND THE GRACE OF GOD, THE VERY SECOND YOU HAD FAITH.
NOW, its God that will complete the good work He started in you after you first believed. Philippians 1:6


So stop teaching = Galatians 1:8