Re: Comma Johanneum - clearing out the fog
Before I discuss this, I want to make sure from the outset that the doctrine of the Trinity does NOT hinge on this verse. There are other verses in Scripture that attest to the doctrine of the Trinity. So I do not plan to derail this discussion with the Trinity discussion, nor to proceed as I have seen on other sites where some posters here may post.
In the same manner, I also want to state that the the most important thing in my mind is that the insertion does NOT contradict other Scriptures. As a result, the origin of that comma does not impugn the doctrine of Scriptural inerrancy, nor of the Trinity.
So we can see here through the quotations from modern scholars that the comma was found ONLY in later and Latin manuscripts, and that the secular scholar Erasmus, true to the best academic scholarship stated clearly that since he could NOT find it in any Greek manuscripts, which were copied, as opposed to the Latin manuscripts that were translations of the Greek, by definition concluded that it was a gloss.
From what I highlighted in bold blue, the statements of Barnes, JFB, Adam Clark, et all are in agreement with these sources, so they were not mistaken. To impugn their academic skills because of a disagreement of the conclusions they reach, is to also call into question the scholarship of Erasmus.
Not only is that important, but the Critical Apparatus to the Third edition to the UBS Greek New Testament gives a rating of [A] to the words, "that there are three witnesses". What that means is that of a possible rating of [A] which is the highest, to [D] which is the least probable likelihood of being accurate. But the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one " are the problematic words in the text.
So my point is that this verse IN THE ORIGINAL GREEK is a firm basis for the doctrine of the Trinity, despite the insertion in Latin Bibles of the rest of the verse in the KJV
As a corollary, if anyone wants to be of a different mind, that it is fine with me. Just as we all have noses we mall have opinions. However while we are all entitled to our opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Therefore I request that any opposing the late insertion of "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one " needs to provide an example using the Greek manuscripts where they are inserted prior to the Latin insertion. To do that requires scholarship greater than that of Erasmus, as well as lots of luck. :D
I am not trying to be snarky. or to cause a "shuffle" in the post, but instead, I am trying to post a reasoned, and scholarly support to my thesis,stated in the beginning.
Before I discuss this, I want to make sure from the outset that the doctrine of the Trinity does NOT hinge on this verse. There are other verses in Scripture that attest to the doctrine of the Trinity. So I do not plan to derail this discussion with the Trinity discussion, nor to proceed as I have seen on other sites where some posters here may post.
In the same manner, I also want to state that the the most important thing in my mind is that the insertion does NOT contradict other Scriptures. As a result, the origin of that comma does not impugn the doctrine of Scriptural inerrancy, nor of the Trinity.
Johannine Comma, also known as the ‘Three Witnesses’. An interpolation in the text of 1 Jn. 5:7 f., that is, the words in italics in the following passage from the AV: ‘For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these Three are One. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree in one.’ They occur in Latin MSS from about AD 800 onwards and so became established in the official Latin text of the Bible, but they are found in no Greek MS before the 12th cent., are certainly not part of the original Epistle, and are omitted from the RV and other scholarly modern translations. The origin of the interpolation is obscure. Traces of a mystical interpretation of the phrase about the Spirit, the Water, and the Blood, applying it to the Trinity, are to be found in *Cyprian and *Augustine; but the earliest evidence for the insertion of a gloss in the text of the Epistle comes from a MS of *Priscillianist provenance discovered by G. Schepss at Würzburg in 1885. Later the insertion is found in quotations in African authors. It would thus seem to have originated in N. Africa or Spain and to have found its way into the Latin Bibles used in those districts (both *Old Latin and *Vulgate), possibly under the stress of *Arian persecution.
Cross, F. L., & Livingstone, E. A. (2005). The Oxford dictionary of the Christian Church (3rd ed. rev.) (885). Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press.
This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation. However, the evidence - both external and internal - is decidedly against its authenticity. For a detailed discussion, see TCGNT 647–49. Our discussion will briefly address the external evidence. This longer reading is found only in nine late MSS, four of which have the words in a marginal note. Most of these MSS (221 2318 [18th century] {2473 [dated 1634]} and [with minor variations] 61 88 429 629 636 918) originate from the 16th century; the earliest ms, codex 221 (10th century) includes the reading in a marginal note, added sometime after the original composition.
The oldest ms with the Comma in its text is from the 14th century (629), but the wording here departs from all the other MSS in several places. The next oldest MSS on behalf of the Comma, 88 (12th century) 429 (14th) 636 (15th), also have the reading only as a marginal note (v.l.). The remaining MSS are from the 16th to 18th centuries. Thus, there is no sure evidence of this reading in any Greek ms until the 14th century (629), and that ms deviates from all others in its wording; the wording that matches what is found in the TR was apparently composed after Erasmus’ Greek NT was published in 1516.
Indeed, the Comma appears in no Greek witness of any kind (either ms, patristic, or Greek translation of some other version) until A.D. 1215 (in a Greek translation of the Acts of the Lateran Council, a work originally written in Latin). This is all the more significant since many a Greek Father would have loved such a reading, for it so succinctly affirms the doctrine of the Trinity. The reading seems to have arisen in a 4th century Latin homily in which the text was allegorized to refer to members of the Trinity. From there, it made its way into copies of the Latin Vulgate, the text used by the Roman Catholic Church. The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum) made its way into the third edition of Erasmus’ Greek NT (1522) because of pressure from the Catholic Church. After his first edition appeared, there arose such a furor over the absence of the Comma that Erasmus needed to defend himself. He argued that he did not put in the Comma because he found no Greek MSS that included it.
Biblical Studies Press. (2006). The NET Bible First Edition Notes (1 Jn 5:7). Biblical Studies Press.The oldest ms with the Comma in its text is from the 14th century (629), but the wording here departs from all the other MSS in several places. The next oldest MSS on behalf of the Comma, 88 (12th century) 429 (14th) 636 (15th), also have the reading only as a marginal note (v.l.). The remaining MSS are from the 16th to 18th centuries. Thus, there is no sure evidence of this reading in any Greek ms until the 14th century (629), and that ms deviates from all others in its wording; the wording that matches what is found in the TR was apparently composed after Erasmus’ Greek NT was published in 1516.
Indeed, the Comma appears in no Greek witness of any kind (either ms, patristic, or Greek translation of some other version) until A.D. 1215 (in a Greek translation of the Acts of the Lateran Council, a work originally written in Latin). This is all the more significant since many a Greek Father would have loved such a reading, for it so succinctly affirms the doctrine of the Trinity. The reading seems to have arisen in a 4th century Latin homily in which the text was allegorized to refer to members of the Trinity. From there, it made its way into copies of the Latin Vulgate, the text used by the Roman Catholic Church. The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum) made its way into the third edition of Erasmus’ Greek NT (1522) because of pressure from the Catholic Church. After his first edition appeared, there arose such a furor over the absence of the Comma that Erasmus needed to defend himself. He argued that he did not put in the Comma because he found no Greek MSS that included it.
7. three—Two or three witnesses were required by law to constitute adequate testimony. The only Greek manuscripts in any form which support the words, "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one; and there are three that bear witness in earth," are the Montfortianus of Dublin, copied evidently from the modern Latin Vulgate; the Ravianus, copied from the Complutensian Polyglot; a manuscript at Naples, with the words added in the Margin by a recent hand; Ottobonianus, 298, of the fifteenth century, the Greek of which is a mere translation of the accompanying Latin. All the old versions omit the words. The oldest manuscripts of the Vulgate omit them: the earliest Vulgate manuscript which has them being Wizanburgensis, 99, of the eighth century. A scholium quoted in Matth橬 shows that the words did not arise from fraud; for in the words, in all Greek manuscripts "there are three that bear record," as the Scholiast notices, the word "three" is masculine, because the three things (the Spirit, the water, and the blood) are SYMBOLS OF THE TRINITY. To this CYPRIAN, 196, also refers, "Of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, it is written, 'And these three are one' (a unity)." There must be some mystical truth implied in using "three" (Greek) in the masculine, though the antecedents, "Spirit, water, and blood," are neuter. That THE TRINITY was the truth meant is a natural inference: the triad specified pointing to a still Higher Trinity; as is plain also from 1Jo 5:9, "the witness of GOD," referring to the Trinity alluded to in the Spirit, water, and blood. It was therefore first written as a marginal comment to complete the sense of the text, and then, as early at least as the eighth century, was introduced into the text of the Latin Vulgate. The testimony, however, could only be borne on earth to men, not in heaven. The marginal comment, therefore, that inserted "in heaven," was inappropriate. It is on earth that the context evidently requires the witness of the three, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, to be borne: mystically setting forth the divine triune witnesses, the Father, the Spirit, and the Son. LUECKE notices as internal evidence against the words, John never uses "the Father" and "the Word" as correlates, but, like other New Testament writers, associates "the Son" with "the Father," and always refers "the Word" to "God" as its correlate, not "the Father." Vigilius, at the end of the fifth century, is the first who quotes the disputed words as in the text; but no Greek manuscript earlier than the fifteenth is extant with them. The term "Trinity" occurs first in the third century in TERTULLIAN [Against Praxeas, 3].
Jamison, Fausett and Brown Commentary
So we can see here through the quotations from modern scholars that the comma was found ONLY in later and Latin manuscripts, and that the secular scholar Erasmus, true to the best academic scholarship stated clearly that since he could NOT find it in any Greek manuscripts, which were copied, as opposed to the Latin manuscripts that were translations of the Greek, by definition concluded that it was a gloss.
From what I highlighted in bold blue, the statements of Barnes, JFB, Adam Clark, et all are in agreement with these sources, so they were not mistaken. To impugn their academic skills because of a disagreement of the conclusions they reach, is to also call into question the scholarship of Erasmus.
Not only is that important, but the Critical Apparatus to the Third edition to the UBS Greek New Testament gives a rating of [A] to the words, "that there are three witnesses". What that means is that of a possible rating of [A] which is the highest, to [D] which is the least probable likelihood of being accurate. But the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one " are the problematic words in the text.
So my point is that this verse IN THE ORIGINAL GREEK is a firm basis for the doctrine of the Trinity, despite the insertion in Latin Bibles of the rest of the verse in the KJV
As a corollary, if anyone wants to be of a different mind, that it is fine with me. Just as we all have noses we mall have opinions. However while we are all entitled to our opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Therefore I request that any opposing the late insertion of "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one " needs to provide an example using the Greek manuscripts where they are inserted prior to the Latin insertion. To do that requires scholarship greater than that of Erasmus, as well as lots of luck. :D
I am not trying to be snarky. or to cause a "shuffle" in the post, but instead, I am trying to post a reasoned, and scholarly support to my thesis,stated in the beginning.
