What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Common Usage?

Status
Not open for further replies.
rstrats

You never tag anyone!
It's the only way they'll know you've answered that person specifically.

Just use the @ sign and then type the name after it. The name should automatically come up after you type the second letter...just click on the name and the person will know you're responding.

Hope this is helpful.
:)
 
rstrats said:
wondering,
re: "3 days and 3 nights is not possible...."

Not with a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection - at least not if the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb. However, there are some who do believe the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and also believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

So how do they account for the lack of a 3rd night?

Well, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I have in the back of my mind that someone may have said that the Messiah had been employing common figure of speech or colloquial language of the period.

So for the purpose of this topic I'm simply curious if it indeed was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of daytime or no part of a night time could occur.
Click to expand...
Of course it was common language.
I had already stated this in a previous post.

Also, we should remember that Jesus was quoting Jonah
Matthew 12:40

As to the heart of the earth...I'd say that Jesus was in the heart of the earth since He went to Paradise to free the prisoners...
Luke 16

The Jews believed the dead went into the dark pit....I think this is the reason Jesus used this expression.

in the Hebrew Bible, is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from life and separated from God.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
 
wondering,
re: "Of course it was common language."

And that is the only issue of this topic. So far, however, no one has provided any examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.



re: "Also, we should remember that Jesus was quoting Jonah Matthew 12:40"

Correct, and the verse has the Messiah saying that He would be spending 3 nights in the heart of the earth.
 
rstrats said:
wondering,
re: "Of course it was common language."

And that is the only issue of this topic. So far, however, no one has provided any examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.



re: "Also, we should remember that Jesus was quoting Jonah Matthew 12:40"

Correct, and the verse has the Messiah saying that He would be spending 3 nights in the heart of the earth.
Click to expand...
So do you think Jesus made a mistake?
Did HE not know that you cannot have 3 days and 3 nights?

Have you ever taken a vacation?
How many DAYS did you spend there?
How many NIGHTS?

If you cannot accept that it was just common usage and are expecting some form of proof, you'll have to find that yourself.

Here's one site you might want to read...there are many more.

The Jews had an official calendar, but were divided even among themselves as to its details. This difference finds its way into the Scriptures, wherein the three synoptic gospels seem to date Passover one day, but John’s Gospel another. The reason is likely rooted in the two different calendars in use among the Jews of Jesus’ day. There is strong evidence that the Essene community used a calendar from the Book of Jubilees, which was a solar calendar of 364 days rather than the lunar calendar of many other Jews. So even in the significant feasts like Passover, different groups of Jews sometimes had strong differences as to how to enumerate the exact days of Passover. And add to this complexity the fact that the Romans had a completely different calendar from the Jews, as did the Samaritans. The Greek cities of the Decapolis used the Macedonian calendar, and others made reference to as many as four calendars: the Jewish, the Syrian, the Egyptian, and the Roman.

One of the greater mysteries in terms of telling time is the seven-day week. Most of the other increments make sense based on the cycles of the moon and the sun. But there seems to be no obvious reference in the natural order to explain a week being seven days. Surely the book of Genesis is the theological source for this practice. God worked for six days and creating the heavens and the earth, and rested on the seventh. Thus man, made in God’s image, did the same. And yet it seems clear that most cultures throughout human history seem to “reset the clock” every seven days. Where exactly this comes from naturally is not clear. It is possible that the influence of the Jewish scriptures had some role. Yet the seven-day cycle seems common even where Jewish faith could not have had much influence. Perhaps there is some inner circadian rhythm in the human person; it’s not clear. But for the Jews of Jesus’ time, it is clear enough that God had set this forth and thus it was to be followed.

Weeks lasted from one sabbath to the next; there is no evidence that the Jews named each day. Of course the Sabbath was named, and the day before the Sabbath was called Preparation Day (e.g., Mk 15:42). However other days were simply called the first day of the week (e.g., Mk 16:2), the second day of the week, and so forth. Romans and Greeks named each day off after a god or a planet, but there is no evidence that the Jews did this.

For the ancient Jews the day began at sundown. In larger towns, and especially in Jerusalem, the end of the day was marked with the sound of trumpets. This pattern is of course very different for us, who mark the beginning of the new day literally at midnight but practically at sunrise. We begin the day with work and then rest; they rested and then worked.

The division of the day and the hours was a comparatively recent phenomenon in Jesus’ time. The very word “hour” is not even found in the Old Testament, except perhaps once in the book of Daniel. But by the time of Jesus, the division of the day into 12 hours was commonly accepted. This fact is referenced in many places in the New Testament. For example there is a parable of the laborers who were hired at the 11th hour (Mt 20:9). There are references to Jesus meeting the Samaritan woman at the well at the sixth hour (Jn 4:6). St. Mark says that Jesus was let out for crucifixion at the third hour and died at the ninth hour (Mk 15:25,33). Jesus admonished the disciples when they were unable watch and pray even for one hour.

Exactly how an hour was reckoned was obviously less precise than it is today. There was a general sense of the position of the sun and there were sundials in use, especially among the Greeks. But there was a general vagueness surrounding it and in determining the exact time of the day in Israel back in Jesus’ day. As already noted, our modern mania for promptness and exactness with time was utterly unknown at the time of Jesus, and even in many places in the world today. Time was a much more flexible phenomenon. In Jesus’ day it would’ve been meaningless to set an appointment for 10:30 AM or 6:00 PM. One would have had to be content to speak of meeting in the early evening, or in mid-afternoon, etc. To us moderns this would seem infuriating. But life was slower then and people were rarely in a hurry.

As for the night hours, things are even more vague. For those who were up at night (and cared), the night was divided into watches. It would seem there were four of them. St. Matthew, for example, states that it was in the fourth watch of the night when Jesus walked on the water to join his disciples (Mat 14:25). The last watch of the night would also feature the cockcrow as dawn neared.

source: http://blog.adw.org/2014/08/how-did-people-tell-time-in-jesus-time/
 
wondering,
re: "So do you think Jesus made a mistake?"

Of course not. What on earth have I written that causes you to ask such a question?


re: "Have you ever taken a vacation?"

Many, many years ago.


re: "How many DAYS did you spend there?"

I have no idea.


re: "How many NIGHTS?"

I have no idea.

What do those 3 questions have to do with this topic's issue?



re: "If you cannot accept that it was just common usage and are expecting some form of proof..."

So when someone says that it was common practice to say something, I must take it by faith and not ask for support for the assertion? I can say anything I want and not be questioned about it?



re: "Here's one site you might want to read..."

It deals with issues for a different topic.
 
rstrats said:
wondering,
re: "So do you think Jesus made a mistake?"

Of course not. What on earth have I written that causes you to ask such a question?


re: "Have you ever taken a vacation?"

Many, many years ago.


re: "How many DAYS did you spend there?"

I have no idea.


re: "How many NIGHTS?"

I have no idea.

What do those 3 questions have to do with this topic's issue?



re: "If you cannot accept that it was just common usage and are expecting some form of proof..."

So when someone says that it was common practice to say something, I must take it by faith and not ask for support for the assertion? I can say anything I want and not be questioned about it?



re: "Here's one site you might want to read..."

It deals with issues for a different topic.
Click to expand...
The questions I ask are always for a reason.
I'm sorry I can't help you more.
 
Simply....
Palm Sunday was on Sunday, right?
It was the 4th day before the Passover...
The 11th of Nissan
John 12:13 Mark 11:8
Returns to Bethany, Mark 11:11

The 3rd day before the Passover, 12h of Nissan
In the morning, ( our Monday a.m), Lord returns to Jerusalem,
Mark 11:12
He goes out of the city, probably to Bethany, Mark 11:19

The 2nd day before the Passover, The 13th if Nissan
In the morning (our Tuesday a.m) on the way to Jerusalem, the fig tree. Mark 11:20-26
He returns to Bethany, Mark14:3-9

1 day before the Passover, 14th of Nissan, "The Preparation Day"
The Day of the crucifixion....
The Preparation for the last supper, the even was come, ( our Tuesday after sunset) Mark14:17
The trials, continued throughout our Tuesday night, Mark 14:53-15:19
The 6th HOUR (our Tuesday midnight) Pilate says, Behold your King, led away to be crucified, Mark 15:20-23

It was the 3rd HOUR and they crucified Him, (our 9 a.m Wed.) Mark 15:25,26
The 6th HOUR (our Wed.noon) and the darkness ,Mark 15:33
The 9th HOUR (our Wed.3pm) the expiring cry, Mark15:34-37

Buried in haste before sunset (our Wed.about 6 pm, before the "High Day", ( the 1st day of the feast began), our Wed. Sunset...Mark 15:42-47

Continued...
 
dianegcook,
re: "Buried in haste before sunset (our Wed.about 6 pm, before the 'High Day'..."

That's an issue for a different topic. Perhaps you could start one.
 
wondering,
re: "The questions I ask are always for a reason."

So what was your reason for the questions you asked me in your post #164?
 
High Day?
Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was a "Holy Convocation" a Sabbath, not necessarily Sat. The weekly Sabbath.
A High Day...
Lev.23:4-8 Ex.12:16
1st day, Holy Convocation...

The words in Mark 14:12 and Luke 22:7 refer to the "first day of unleaven bread" which was the 14th day of Nissan, and therefore "the preparation day". That is why the Lord goes on to tell the 2 disciples to go and make preparation for the Passover.

Even as Jonah was in the belly of the fish, 3 days and 3 nights, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights..
Now while it is quite correct to speak according to Hebrew idiom of "3 days" or "3 years" while they are only parts of 3 days and 3 years, yet that idiom does not apply in a case like this, where 3 nights and 3 days are mentioned.
The Lord states it, and repeats it, that we may not mistake it.

Thus,
Our Wed. Sunset to Thurs.Sunset, "High Day", the 1st night and day in the tomb

Our Thurs.Sunset to Friday sunset, the 2nd night and day in the tomb...

Our Friday sunset to to Saturday sunset, Sat. Sunset, the first day of the week...The 3rd night and day in the tomb.

Each day is marked by a return to Bethany during the last week, (up to Preparation Day) and each day is filled with the recorded events...
 
I think it is as Jesus said, 3 nights in the heart of the earth, it refers to the location of the dead in his time, but now i believe that we are transported to heaven, and in Gods presence now.
 
And again, that "someone new" needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top