Consider the Flood and Attributes of God

[Tenchi]

1. Consider God is love: 1 John 4:8.

And 1 John 4:16.

2. Consider God does not change: Malachi 3:6.

In His essential nature there is no change. But God does act in varying ways, at times changing things very fundamentally between Man and Himself (e.g. the Mosaic Covenant - Exodus 34:27-28), the "new and living" Covenant in Jesus Christ - Hebrews 9-10:22).

3. Consider God is the same before the world began, during the Old Testament times, New Testament times and forever: Hebrews 13:8.

This is, essentially, a repeat of #2. But it's not entirely accurate. There are features of God that exist in consequence of Creation: judgment, wrath, patience, mercy, etc. In the timeless, spaceless, immaterial existence God sustained prior to Creation, He was never wrathful, or requiring patience, or needing to extend mercy to anyone. These qualities exist in God because of His creation of us.

4. Consider God does nothing without a purpose, and His purpose will be accomplished: Isaiah 46:10.

Oh? God has a hierarchy of purpose, of will/desire, that He pursues, subjugating certain things He desires to see come to pass under other more important desires. For example, he is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9) but subjugates this desire to His holiness and justice, both of which require that "the soul that sins, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4b). God would have us all living in perfect holiness and submission to Himself, enjoying full and constant communion with Himself, but He subjugates what He wants in this regard to His desire that we be free to love Him, without compulsion choosing to walk with Him in love - or not. And so on. It is, then, potentially misleading to say that "His purpose will be accomplished." Yes, it will, in some respects; and no, it won't, in others. This doesn't mean God has failed, only that He has a hierarchy of priorities He's pursuing, fulfilling them - or not - according to His will.

8. Now consider the common assumption in exegeting John 3:16 in order to prove that “God so loved the world.” The assumption dictates that this verse must apply to all mankind, without exception, due to the obvious definition of ‘world.’

9. By applying this assumption, we must consider that God, who is love, and whose love is constant, and is not partial, Acts 10:34, and does not change, so loved all mankind in both the world of Old and New Testaments, otherwise the assumption would not hold true. And besides, who would dare claim otherwise.... that God hated Old Testament mankind yet loved New Testament mankind.

It isn't an assumption that John 3:16 refers to all of humanity. It is, in context, exactly what John intended to say.

It's actually a non sequitur to think that, because God judged evil humanity in the past, He doesn't therefore love all of humanity today. What is the order of God's priorities He has revealed in His judgment of humanity in the Great Flood? Did He not show enormous mercy, patience and love to those who died in the Flood, Noah building before the eyes of the wicked the warning of God's imminent judgment for many years? Under the primitive conditions of the time, completing the Ark by hand would have taken Noah and his sons a very long time (some have estimated it took nearly a century) during which the wicked had a visual indicator of the nearness of God's wrath, a ship-shaped "alarm clock" that, when completed, would mean the doom of all not in it.

But this extension of patience and mercy on God's part finally had to give way to His holy wrath and justice, all those who had refused God's way of escape, built before them, day-by-day for many years, dying in their willfull, persistent rebellion and wickedness. In this it is demonstrated that God's holiness and justice are not ultimately subject to His love and mercy, the former continually sacrificed in expression of the latter. Though God extends love and mercy to all - and very patiently - He will not do so forever, His justice and holiness always taking the back seat to His love and mercy.

What God did to humanity in the Great Flood is not, then, merely an expression of God's hatred of most His creatures. Not at all. He showed much patience and grace to all the wicked in the story of the Flood, demonstrating even then that He "was not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." In light of this, I don't see that the Great Flood story is any hindrance at all to understanding that John 3:16 refers to humanity in its entirety, as one would read John's words naturally.

iconbusters wrote:

"(b) Noah reached a few men with his preaching, though they ignored his warning, 2 Peter 2:5, but the vast majority on earth who lived further away never heard the Gospel. Yet God purposefully destroyed them knowing faith comes only by hearing the Word of God, Romans 10:17, which they will never hear."

This isn't what Paul indicated. He wrote to the believers in Rome that all people (without permanently impaired cognition via congenital defect, early-infancy injury or disease, etc.) have the external witness of Creation to God's existence and the inner witness of their own conscience to a Moral Law Giver, too (Romans 1:18-20; 2:13-15). They are, then, aware of the Gospel or not, responsible for what they do with this "witness," this God-Truth, that they often "suppress in unrighteousness." Those who respond positively to this "light" that they have and seek to draw near to God, those who search for Him diligently though they don't know who He is, exactly, God promises will find Him. He will draw near to those who draw near to Him.

Jeremiah 29:13
13 'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

James 4:8
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you...

Also, prior to the Great Flood, it is not clear that the peoples of earth were widespread, living in all regions of the globe, like today. In fact, the narrative of Genesis suggests that, until the Tower of Babel incident, the tribes of humanity lived in close proximity to one another, having a single, common language, even (Genesis 11:1), and because this was so, they were able to unite in construction of the Tower. In fact, when God "came down to look upon the tower," he said, "the people are one," suggesting that the children of men had not dispersed at all (Genesis 11:6). So, then, Noah's Ark and the warning that it was would have been well-known among all of the children of men, especially since it was being built for many decades. I don't see, therefore, that the Flood is an example of God hating the majority of people by neglecting to warn them of His impending destruction of them.

How God acted in the instance of the Flood, showing much patience, giving ample warning of approaching doom, and providing concrete means of escape from that doom comports very well with what Paul wrote in Romans 1:18-20 and Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:9. Truly, God is not willing that ANY should perish but all should come to repentance. In demonstration of this, He has, through Christ's sacrifice of himself, made salvation available to the whole world, as John 3:16 plainly declares.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

iconbusters wrote:

"Preaching God’s love for all without exception leads to a very perverted view of God’s love."
I believe the very opposite is true. Those who deny the plain and repeated declaration, and demonstration, of God's "whole world" love are the one's holding a "very perverted view of God's love."

iconbusters wrote:

"1. It preaches a love which fails to save those whom God loves.

2. It preaches a love for those who will never be saved because He has willed they never hear the Gospel.

3. To tell a person, “God loves you,” is of little comfort. For, according to many, God also loves those in Hell. His love has given you the free will to choose Christ or perish. Once God loves you, they teach, He always loves you, for God is love and His love does not change, even for those in Hell, despite the horror of their eternal torments.

4. Thus, according to many, there are two kinds of God’s love: one malevolent, the other benevolent. The malevolent love of God either stands by, doing nothing more to save you, though He has the infinite power and knowledge to reverse your course on the road to perdition. Of course, if He purposed your demise, He would never give a thought of intervening in your destruction."

God's love doesn't fail when those who reject it are not saved. His love is a feature of His nature and so cannot "fail." It is an essential and enduring characteristic of who God is that has defined Him before Creation existed. Did His love "fail" when there was no world to receive it? Of course not.

God has so ordained that we may freely choose to love Him and be saved, or not. And He has further ordained that this freedom to choose, which is necessary to loving Him, will not be withdrawn even though it means the majority of people reject His love. Whether, then, a person accepts His love or rejects it, God's will is done. How, then, is there any failure on God's part?

And God has not willed that the majority of people should know nothing of Him and the Gospel and die in their sin, but has instilled in every normally-functioning person an awareness that He is, to which both their conscience and physical Creation give plain testimony so that they are all "without excuse."

Also, as I've pointed out already, God is not ONLY love, but is a God of holiness and justice, too. He will not express the former always at the expense of the latter, but graciously, patiently offers His love and mercy to the wicked before enacting His holy justice and wrath upon them. If they will receive His offer, they may escape making impossible, eternal recompense for their sin themselves. If not, they must face God's holy justice directly and fully. I don't see, then, that the horrors of hell in any way diminish God's love. It seems obvious to me that love that doesn't attend to justice and ignores righteousness is not love.

Concerning your point #4, see the above.

iconbusters wrote:

"However, the Bible teaches only one kind of God’s love: benevolent. God’s love never fails, 1 Cor. 13:8; it always accomplishes its purpose. And that purpose is to save His people, whom He has loved and foreknown from eternity, Matthew 1:21, Jeremiah 31:3. It is a love which intervenes and actually rescues those who are incapable of rescuing themselves, for men are naturally dead to spiritual truths, Ephesians 2:1. It is a love which comes first, before we could claim any genuine love for Him, 1 John 4:19. It is a love which loses none, John 6:39.

To teach, preach and believe otherwise is a sign and symptom of the tragic possibility that one may not know the true God."

The Bible does NOT teach that God's love is only benevolent. Read Hebrews 12:5-11. Consider, too, how God's love for Israel found frequent expression in jealousy, anger, fierce criticism and punishment of the "whoredom" and "harlotry" of His beloved Chosen People (Ezekiel 16). Had God not loved Israel, none of His harsh accusations of, and response to, the infidelity of the nation would have been made. He didn't, after all, rail against the Hittites, or Persians, or Babylonians like He did against His own Chosen and Beloved Nation, Israel.

God's love "never fails" in that it never ceases to be extended to the undeserving and to be the holy, just, truth-centered, sin-hating, patient, kind thing that it is. Nowhere, though, does Scripture say that God's love always accomplishes its purposes. This is a slippery twist of God's word.

Despite not being "born-again," despite being "dead in trespasses and sins," the Bible gives high praise to men like Noah, Job, Daniel, David, Enoch, and Cornelius, all of whom were God-fearing, righteous men though they were, as you put it, "naturally dead to spiritual truth."

Finally, what is a "tragic possibility" isn't that many will disagree with your interpration of God's Truth but that you are so convinced of your interpretation though it is clearly in error.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Incredibly, there are a shocking number of professing Christians who believe God loved all those whom He purposely drowned in the Flood.
As if suffocation is an act of mercy.
The Apostle Paul cites Exodus 33 when writing Romans 9, teaching the immutable nature of God and the sovereignty of His will: I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy.
Mercy is an act of love. No mercy was shown the millions and millions He drowned. Not children, infants, the sick or elderly.
Rather than believe such a horrific event actually took place, many choose to think of it as nothing more than a fictitious legend. Others tend to dismiss it as 'that was then, this is now,' meaning God would never do such a vicious thing today because today He is much more tolerant and compassionate.
This mentality explains the teaching of the Episcopal Bishop Budde who pleaded with President Trump to have mercy on the gay, lesbian and transgender population. She did so "in the name of our God" because she, like so many others, believes God's view of sin has changed.
But has it really?
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Christ of the Bible had the habit of making enemies. All He had to do was quote the Scriptures. In Luke 4, Jesus read the words of Isaiah 61 during the temple service. The congregation was shocked at his admission of personally fulfilling that prophecy. But when He had the unmitigated gall to remind them of the fact that the Lord had chosen to feed and cure Gentiles, while purposely ignoring the Israelites in need, they rose up and attempted to kill Him.
Today that same truth - God's absolute freedom and right to save some, while choosing not to save others - is met with similar disdain, hatred and mocking.

Yeah, people don't accept God's quality of true justice as our rightful Judge anymore.

 

[iconbusters]

Why doesn’t God save everybody?
There must be a good, solid biblical reason.
After all, with God all things are possible (Matt. 19:26; Luke 1:37).
That being the case, we can rule out the suggestion it is impossible for God to save everyone.
Therefore, since it is possible for God to save everyone, yet most are not saved, we must consider other reasons.

Perhaps it is God’s earnest desire all are saved, but He magnanimously leaves the ultimate decision up to mankind.
In that way God cannot be blamed if man decides against Him.
Man simply received what he wanted.
He wanted nothing to do with a holy God and His Christ.
God didn't send him to Hell. He sent himself to Hell.
God, however, will receive part of the glory for those who do accept Christ.
For it was God’s gift of Christ which enabled the possibility of salvation in the first place.

This strain of hypothetical reasoning requires man’s ‘free will’ to either remain intact after the Fall of Adam, or it requires God to graciously bestow Adam’s progeny with ‘free will’ after the Fall.
Those who hold to the former are numbered among the Pelagians.

http://www.theopedia.com/pelagianism

Those who hold to the latter are numbered among Wesleyans and Arminians who preach Prevenient Grace.

http://www.theopedia.com/prevenient-grace

Those who hold to the doctrine of man’s ‘free will’ agree that God’s election unto salvation is determined by God’s eternal prescience which foresees those who will accept the gift of Christ before they die.
Those who accept Christ are elected unto salvation.

What isn’t explained by those who hold the doctrine of ‘free will’ is the fact that of all the nations and tribes on Earth during Old Testament times, only Israel was given knowledge of the coming Messiah the Savior (Amos 3:2; Romans 9:4-5).
No matter how ‘free’ the will, the will cannot will that of which it has no knowledge (Psalm 147:19-20; Acts 14:16).
Thus, untold millions have perished without knowledge of Christ or the Gospel.
Was that God’s intention?
Either God knew what He was doing, or He is a very confused God.
Christians believe He is all-wise and does nothing capriciously or erratically.
Thus, we must conclude God did not intend to save those millions.

Next, we must examine the theory of ‘free will’ as it pertains to the New Testament world.
God elects unto salvation those who He foreknows will freely choose Christ.
But what about those He foreknows will freely reject Christ?
If God truly ‘loved’ all people, why would He condemn those He loved to an eternity of torment?
What kind of 'love' is that?
Some ‘free will’ believers preach the unbiblical doctrine of annihilation, thereby eliminating the possibility of God being charged with propagating a ‘cruel and unusual punishment.’

Those ‘free will’ believers who hold to the doctrine of eternal punishment find themselves overlooking several inconsistencies.
1. Since God knows all things, He certainly knows why certain men accept Christ while others do not.
That being the case, why then does He not reconstruct His creation in such a way that all men will, of their own free will, accept Jesus?
Remember, with God all things are possible.
2. Would it not be more ‘loving’ of God to not create those men He ‘foreknows’ will freely reject Christ?
To what ‘loving’ purpose is there to torment unbelievers forever?
3. To what purpose was the testing of Adam and Eve?
Did God test Adam and Eve to determine what His next move should be?
Or did the testing of Adam and Eve prove the fallacy of the doctrine that states sinful man is ‘free’ to choose for or against God?

CONCLUSION: It is not, nor has it ever been God’s eternal intention/purpose to save every human ever born.
Rather, God’s eternal intention/purpose is to save those of His choosing, irrespective of their unbelief, unwillingness, spiritual deadness, blindness, deafness, and hatred, all to the praise of His glorious grace (Romans 9:11-23).
All others will bring praise to His glorious justice.
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? (Romans 9:21).
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).

 

[Hidden In Him]

That being the case, we can rule out the suggestion it is impossible for God to save everyone.
Therefore, since it is possible for God to save everyone, yet most are not saved, we must consider other reasons.

Maybe the Lord leaves things up to us because love isn't love if you force someone to do it. Maybe He wants to be loved by people who freely did of their own free will.

Would you wish to be loved only by those - your children, your wife, your parents, etc - whom you had to force to love you, or would you be happier if they loved you of their own free will? Be honest.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why doesn’t God save everybody?
There must be a good, solid biblical reason.

Yes there is, the vast majority will worship Satan the dragon as God instead of God the Creator. They believe Satan will save them through the Beast instead of God through Jesus. That reason is their conscious choice.

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

"It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Why doesn’t God save everybody?
There must be a good, solid biblical reason.
After all, with God all things are possible (Matt. 19:26; Luke 1:37).
That being the case, we can rule out the suggestion it is impossible for God to save everyone.
Therefore, since it is possible for God to save everyone, yet most are not saved, we must consider other reasons.

Perhaps it is God’s earnest desire all are saved, but He magnanimously leaves the ultimate decision up to mankind.
In that way God cannot be blamed if man decides against Him.
Man simply received what he wanted.
He wanted nothing to do with a holy God and His Christ.
God didn't send him to Hell. He sent himself to Hell.
God, however, will receive part of the glory for those who do accept Christ.
For it was God’s gift of Christ which enabled the possibility of salvation in the first place.

This strain of hypothetical reasoning requires man’s ‘free will’ to either remain intact after the Fall of Adam, or it requires God to graciously bestow Adam’s progeny with ‘free will’ after the Fall.
Those who hold to the former are numbered among the Pelagians.

http://www.theopedia.com/pelagianism

Those who hold to the latter are numbered among Wesleyans and Arminians who preach Prevenient Grace.

http://www.theopedia.com/prevenient-grace

Those who hold to the doctrine of man’s ‘free will’ agree that God’s election unto salvation is determined by God’s eternal prescience which foresees those who will accept the gift of Christ before they die.
Those who accept Christ are elected unto salvation.

What isn’t explained by those who hold the doctrine of ‘free will’ is the fact that of all the nations and tribes on Earth during Old Testament times, only Israel was given knowledge of the coming Messiah the Savior (Amos 3:2; Romans 9:4-5).
No matter how ‘free’ the will, the will cannot will that of which it has no knowledge (Psalm 147:19-20; Acts 14:16).
Thus, untold millions have perished without knowledge of Christ or the Gospel.
Was that God’s intention?
Either God knew what He was doing, or He is a very confused God.
Christians believe He is all-wise and does nothing capriciously or erratically.
Thus, we must conclude God did not intend to save those millions.

Next, we must examine the theory of ‘free will’ as it pertains to the New Testament world.
God elects unto salvation those who He foreknows will freely choose Christ.
But what about those He foreknows will freely reject Christ?
If God truly ‘loved’ all people, why would He condemn those He loved to an eternity of torment?
What kind of 'love' is that?
Some ‘free will’ believers preach the unbiblical doctrine of annihilation, thereby eliminating the possibility of God being charged with propagating a ‘cruel and unusual punishment.’

Those ‘free will’ believers who hold to the doctrine of eternal punishment find themselves overlooking several inconsistencies.
1. Since God knows all things, He certainly knows why certain men accept Christ while others do not.
That being the case, why then does He not reconstruct His creation in such a way that all men will, of their own free will, accept Jesus?
Remember, with God all things are possible.
2. Would it not be more ‘loving’ of God to not create those men He ‘foreknows’ will freely reject Christ?
To what ‘loving’ purpose is there to torment unbelievers forever?
3. To what purpose was the testing of Adam and Eve?
Did God test Adam and Eve to determine what His next move should be?
Or did the testing of Adam and Eve prove the fallacy of the doctrine that states sinful man is ‘free’ to choose for or against God?

CONCLUSION: It is not, nor has it ever been God’s eternal intention/purpose to save every human ever born.
Rather, God’s eternal intention/purpose is to save those of His choosing, irrespective of their unbelief, unwillingness, spiritual deadness, blindness, deafness, and hatred, all to the praise of His glorious grace (Romans 9:11-23).
All others will bring praise to His glorious justice.
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? (Romans 9:21).
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).

I like the idea that God could save everyone but has an excellent reason why he doesn't. He just hasn't revealed that reason to us in his Word; thus, it's another mystery we must accept.

 

[iconbusters]

Maybe the Lord leaves things up to us because love isn't love if you force someone to do it. Maybe He wants to be loved by people who freely did of their own free will.

Would you wish to be loved only by those - your children, your wife, your parents, etc - whom you had to force to love you, or would you be happier if they loved you of their own free will? Be honest.

Your argument is quite prevalent among professing Christians. However, you all are making the common error of assuming that which is yet to be proved: i.e., that man has the free will to love the Lord God. Remember, obedience is the necessary fruit of a man who truly loves God (John 14:15). Sin is disobedience to God, as proved in the Garden. All die in Adam, our federal head, because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 5:12). Conclusion: All mankind is naturally disobedient to God, naturally His enemies (Romans 8). God's enemies do not naturally love God. However, God's love for His elect is so powerful that when He executes the omnipotent power of His love, He draws those men willingly to Christ, by the gift of faith (John 6:44, 65). And Christ loses none given Him by the Father (John 6:39; 17:12).

 

[iconbusters]

Election Signifies the Love of God

Jacob have I loved (Romans 9:13).
Jacob was the object of God’s electing grace.
All true Christians were and are the object of God’s electing grace.
Had it not been so, we would still be lost and dead in our sin (Ephesians 2:11-13).
For it is by God’s grace we are saved (Ephesians 2:8).
Had God not first loved us, we would still be lost and dead in our sin (1 John 4:19).
God’s love is eternal (Jeremiah 31:3).
And because it is eternal, His love cannot cease.
And because it is eternal, His love cannot fail (Romans 8:37-39).
And because God is immutable, His love for us cannot change (Romans 11:29; Malachi 3:6).
Those upon whom God has set the seal of His love cannot fail to attain glorification, (as will be proven below).
Nor can they be lost (John 10: 28-30).
This is God’s promise and God cannot lie nor fail to achieve His purposes (Titus 1:2; Isaiah 46:10).
Consider these verses (Romans 8:28-32):

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

His purpose is his electing purpose (cf. Romans 9:11).
Those who love God were first loved by Him (1 John 4:19).
God’s love is irresistible. The Elect will love Him. It was in love that He chose and predestined us to the adoption of children (Ephesians 1:4-5).
Their ultimate destiny is a good one.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

In this context God’s foreknowledge is His eternal knowledge of those He loves and purposes to save.

Their destiny was determined by God before they were born (Romans 9:11).

It is a good destiny, for they are to be Christ’s brethren in God’s family.

Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

To ensure the successful outcome of God’s loving, electing purpose, God has predestined not only their destiny, but the means to achieve that destiny.
The means include effectual calling of the Spirit by the Gospel, their justification by the faith to which they have been called, which will infallibly result in their glorification.

Please note the pronoun, ‘He.’ God is the cause of all the necessary means to glorification.

 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

This promise stands on the faithfulness, wisdom and omnipotence of God who cannot fail to achieve His purposes.

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Freely giving us all the gracious means of securing our salvation is nothing compared to sending His Son to the cross on our behalf.
Since God has performed the most difficult task of sacrificing His Son, we can be certain He will not fail to give us saving faith and all the adjuncts necessary to fulfill the conditions of achieving salvation.

But Here’s the Problem

As much as Christians like to emphasize God’s love, we do an extreme disservice to God when we claim our holy God loves all people yet cannot save all those He loves.

The argument goes typically like this:
“Because God loves all men, He gives man the free will to accept or reject His offer of salvation.
If man rejects it, it’s not because God doesn’t love them and will their salvation.”

I fully understand there are several doctrinal issues which underscore the above argument:

• Does man really have ‘free will?’

• Can God’s will be thwarted?

• Can Christ fail to save those for whom He died?

These issues must be examined in separate posts.
But here is what we can all agree on now:
I have just given proof texts which promise all those loved by God will NEVER be lost.
It is impossible for God to lose one of His sheep.
Christ also declares it:
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled (John 17:12).
Christ not only secures salvation for those Elect pre-crucifixion, but He also secures salvation for all those Elect post-crucifixion (John 17:20).
Both the Father and the Son’s love for the Elect is constant, immutable and eternal (John 13:1).

We are doing God no favor when we make the claim ‘God loves everyone without exception.’
For by so doing, we are admitting God’s failure to achieve His purpose of saving the world which He loves.
In fact, the Bible teaches more are lost than saved (Matt. 7:13-14).
This casts aspersions at Christ as Savior.
He has failed in the very mission given Him, the very purpose of His first advent:
thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Matt. 1:21).
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10).
And lastly, it teaches the Lord condemns the unbeliever to an eternity of torture, though He loves him.

 

[hawkman]

John 3:16 Context​

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

And this is a good read too !

Does God love everyone or just Christians? | GotQuestions.org

Does God love everyone or just Christians? Does God love me? Does He love Christians more?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Hidden In Him]

Your argument is quite prevalent among professing Christians. However, you all are making the common error of assuming that which is yet to be proved: i.e., that man has the free will to love the Lord God.

But neither can a lack of freewill be proved, so that doesn't really add much to the discussion. But I appreciate the courteous post. As the Lord leads, maybe we can get into verse by verse exegesis of the word, but I only give myself to that with Calvinists when I truly have nothing going on, which is rare. It's not that I would not like taking the time, but as far as it being time spent productively it rarely results in anything but both sides not seeing one another eye to eye, and it can go on for millennia with no end, so I prefer to focus on serving Christ productively with my time.

Blessings, and wish you the very best.
- H

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Your argument is quite prevalent among professing Christians. However, you all are making the common error of assuming that which is yet to be proved: i.e., that man has the free will to love the Lord God. Remember, obedience is the necessary fruit of a man who truly loves God (John 14:15). Sin is disobedience to God, as proved in the Garden. All die in Adam, our federal head, because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 5:12). Conclusion: All mankind is naturally disobedient to God, naturally His enemies (Romans 8). God's enemies do not naturally love God. However, God's love for His elect is so powerful that when He executes the omnipotent power of His love, He draws those men willingly to Christ, by the gift of faith (John 6:44, 65). And Christ loses none given Him by the Father (John 6:39; 17:12).

I agree that disobedience is part of sin because it is its fruit, but sin goes deeper. My definition, which I think is the Bible's meaning, is self-centeredness, out of which proceeds disobedience. We are born self-centered, as is evidenced by babies' actions when playing with other children. Ephesians 2:1-3 says:
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.