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[_ Old Earth _] Continental drift and Pangaea?

John

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Scientists had noted for hundreds of years that the shapes of the continents, in particular those on either side of the Atlantic Ocean are such that they look like they could fit together.

Most creation scientists agree that the continents were probably once together, for the most part, in a super-continent based on Genesis 1:9.

Moreover, rocks and fossils found on the facing shores of the different continents were remarkably similar. We now understand this, not just theoretically, but experimentally, by recognizing that the continents are indeed drifting apart. Using satellite data we can measure that South America and Africa are moving apart at an average rate of 5.7 centimeters per year, about the same rate at which your fingernails grow. This spreading apart of the continents is now understood because material is measured to be moving up to the surface from deep in the earth at the mid-ocean ridges. Our understanding of the Earth’s dynamics is completely consistent with this observation,

a good point here in showing that we know the continental plates are drifting apart because we can observe them drifting. Since this is an observation that can be made in the present, this falls under operational science. And, of course, creationists agree with these observable facts. However, it is when scientists make assumptions about the past (which cannot be observed) that we disagree.

and using the present observed rate of ocean spreading we can determine that the observed continents were part of a single land mass about 250 million years ago.

Herein lies the assumption and problem with which creationists disagree. Many secular scientists assume uniformitarianism (i.e. the idea that the rate at which an event happens in the present is the same as it was in the past) and extrapolate backwards. Hence, they automatically reject catastrophes when dealing with the past in many areas, such as this one!

It is commonly assumed that this average rate we observe today of 5.7 cm per year has always been the rate at which the continents have drifted apart. One must ask “how do they know that the rate has always been the same?†What source of information are they using that allows and confirms this assumption they are making? But that’s the problem, there is no source of information that confirms this assumption. To state that the rate has never changed in the past means one is omniscient and omnipresent (which are qualities of God).

This would be like seeing a 52-gallon bathtub full of water and noticing the water coming out of the faucet at a rate of 5.7 ounces per minute and then assuming that this was always the rate and that it must have taken 19.5 hours for the bathtub to fill up. However, what is the source being used to make such an assumption? None: it is assumed without any evidence or source of information. Someone could have very easily filled the bathtub in five minutes and then turned down the faucet.

Your thoughts?
 
Scientists had noted for hundreds of years that the shapes of the continents, in particular those on either side of the Atlantic Ocean are such that they look like they could fit together.

Most creation scientists agree that the continents were probably once together, for the most part, in a super-continent based on Genesis 1:9.

That's not what Genesis 1:9 says.

a good point here in showing that we know the continental plates are drifting apart because we can observe them drifting. Since this is an observation that can be made in the present, this falls under operational science. And, of course, creationists agree with these observable facts. However, it is when scientists make assumptions about the past (which cannot be observed) that we disagree.

Fortunately, there is a record of the past in the rocks. As the mantle rises up to make new crust, the iron particles in it align with the magnetic north pole, and then are locked in place as the rock hardens. So each "stripe" of crust has a geologic "date stamp" on it.

and using the present observed rate of ocean spreading we can determine that the observed continents were part of a single land mass about 250 million years ago.

Actually, it's varied a bit over time, but not by very much. It couldn't. You see, the energy to produce rapid crustal movement would be dissipated by heat, and that much thermal energy would have boiled the oceans. The laws of thermodynamics still apply.

Herein lies the assumption and problem with which creationists disagree. Many secular scientists assume uniformitarianism (i.e. the idea that the rate at which an event happens in the present is the same as it was in the past)

That's not what "uniformitarianism" means. It means the rules have been the same since the beginning. This does not rule out discontinuous change. Indeed, classical geology cites many such changes.

Hence, they automatically reject catastrophes when dealing with the past in many areas, such as this one!

Laws of physics, you know.

It is commonly assumed that this average rate we observe today of 5.7 cm per year has always been the rate at which the continents have drifted apart.

The evidence is a bit more precise than that...

Science 25 August 1967:
Vol. 157. no. 3791, pp. 920 - 923
DOI: 10.1126/science.157.3791.920

Magnetic Anomalies over the Mid-Atlantic Ridge near 27°N
J. D. Phillips 1

1 Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Woods Hole, Massachusetts

Ten magnetic profiles across the mid-Atlantic ridge near 27°N show trends that are parallel to the ridge axis and symmetrical about the ridge axis. The configuration of magnetic bodies that could account for the pattern supports the Vine and Matthews hypothesis for the origin of magnetic anomalies over oceanic ridges. A polarity-reversal time scale inferred from models for sea-floor spreading in the Pacific-Antarctic ridge and radiometrically dated reversals of the geomagnetic field indicates a spreading rate of 1.25 centimeters per year during the last 6 million years and a rate of 1.65 centimeters per year between 6 and 10 million years ago. A similar analysis of more limited data over the mid-Atlantic ridge near 22°N also indicates a change in the spreading rate. Here a rate of 1.4 centimeters per year appears to have been in effect during the last 5 million years; between 5 and 9 million years ago, an increased rate of 1.7 centimeters per year is indicated. The time of occurrence and relative magnitude of these changes in the spreading rate, about 5 to 6 million years ago and 18 to 27 percent, respectively, accords with the spreading rate change implied for the Juan de Fuca ridge in the northeast Pacific.


One must ask “how do they know that the rate has always been the same?â€Â

It hasn't been, and we have pretty good number as to what it was in various ages.

What source of information are they using that allows and confirms this assumption they are making? But that’s the problem, there is no source of information that confirms this assumption. To state that the rate has never changed in the past means one is omniscient and omnipresent (which are qualities of God).

See above. It's rather precisely known.

Your thoughts?

This one has the distinct odor of "Answers in Genesis." And they know better. I pointed these facts out to Jon Sarfati myself.
 
It was AIG i thought i sourced it, i guess not.

I will get back to you tomorrow some time its getting very late here Zzzzzzzzz...... :wave
 
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