Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

contradiction

Ok, I know it's a big belief in Christianity that the Bible is completely without error. Now, I am a Christian, and I don't want anyone saying otherwise because of what I'm about to say, but I don't believe that.
The reason is, there are too many contradictions. For example, in the gospels, it says that Judas was paid 30 pieces of silver for turning Jesus over, but that afterward, he felt guilty and gave the money back. In another part of the gospels it says that Judas hung himself on a piece of land he bought with the money. So one account says he gave back the money, another account says he bought land with it. One of those versions is wrong. How can people believe the Bible is 100% accurate when there are so many contradictions?
I'm not trying to sound like I'm against the Bible or like I'm not a Christian, because I am. I love Jesus and I have a relationship with Him, but I know people are going to look negatively on me for believing this way. Does anyone else agree with me, or can anyone explain how the Bible is without error despite the contradictions?
 
NinaMMitchell said:
Ok, I know it's a big belief in Christianity that the Bible is completely without error. Now, I am a Christian, and I don't want anyone saying otherwise because of what I'm about to say, but I don't believe that.
The reason is, there are too many contradictions. For example, in the gospels, it says that Judas was paid 30 pieces of silver for turning Jesus over, but that afterward, he felt guilty and gave the money back. In another part of the gospels it says that Judas hung himself on a piece of land he bought with the money. So one account says he gave back the money, another account says he bought land with it. One of those versions is wrong. How can people believe the Bible is 100% accurate when there are so many contradictions?
I'm not trying to sound like I'm against the Bible or like I'm not a Christian, because I am. I love Jesus and I have a relationship with Him, but I know people are going to look negatively on me for believing this way. Does anyone else agree with me, or can anyone explain how the Bible is without error despite the contradictions?


I think you can be a Christian and still see reality for what it is. The bible was written by men, then translated by other men. Men are imperfect so the bible is at times reflects this imperfection.
 
As you often find with the Gospels, some of the writers are quite good with details, others will summarize. This often appears as a contradiction until we examine the evidence closely, and don't jump to conclusions.

You will find in Matthew 27:3-10 an explanation of how the Priests took the money that Judas returned, and bought a piece of land to bury strangers in. So in effect to say that Judas bought the land is correct, he paid the price for it in more ways than one.

This is equal to you giving your money, to a real-estate dealer to buy a piece of land. He will of course buy it in your name. This the Priests would have done to distance themselves from the deal, since they considered the 30 pieces of Silver blood money. And wanted nothing to do with it.
 
NinaMMitchell said:
Ok, I know it's a big belief in Christianity that the Bible is completely without error. Now, I am a Christian, and I don't want anyone saying otherwise because of what I'm about to say, but I don't believe that.
The reason is, there are too many contradictions. For example, in the gospels, it says that Judas was paid 30 pieces of silver for turning Jesus over, but that afterward, he felt guilty and gave the money back. In another part of the gospels it says that Judas hung himself on a piece of land he bought with the money. So one account says he gave back the money, another account says he bought land with it. One of those versions is wrong. How can people believe the Bible is 100% accurate when there are so many contradictions?
I'm not trying to sound like I'm against the Bible or like I'm not a Christian, because I am. I love Jesus and I have a relationship with Him, but I know people are going to look negatively on me for believing this way. Does anyone else agree with me, or can anyone explain how the Bible is without error despite the contradictions?
Here is the key: to ask yourself is GOD wrong or is your understanding wrong? Every single time something to us seems to contridict is a matter of us lacking understanding. If we see something and think it contridicts then we will never seek out the real understanding because we will put ourselves ABOVE the word of God and leave that as a contridiction in our minds and it will slowly eat away at our faith. If you cannot believe all the word of God is right and true and in unity with the rest, then when you are in a trial and need to stand on the word of God, your flesh and the enemy will have every reason to say " how can you know that is true when such and such is wrong".

As to your example the understanding is this.
Mat 27:3 ¶ Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What [is that] to us? see thou [to that].
Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Mat 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.

Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Judas gave the money back BUT the priests could not take possestion of the money so they took it and bought the field. The money was still judas's because they did not accept it back as blood money. So judas PURCHASED his own grave with the reward of his sin.This was to fulfill a prophesy

Mat 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; Mat 27:10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.
 
NinaMMitchell said:
Ok, I know it's a big belief in Christianity that the Bible is completely without error. Now, I am a Christian, and I don't want anyone saying otherwise because of what I'm about to say, but I don't believe that.
...

Does anyone else agree with me, or can anyone explain how the Bible is without error despite the contradictions?

Hello NinaMMitchell,

You are right, the Bible is correct as long its translation is correct. As you may know, perhaps none of the books found in the Bible today came from an original manuscript. They are copy, of a copy, of a copy, etc.

A couple of points would help us understand this problem:
1. The way books were written in ancient times was by hand, which was done by scribes trained for that purpose. The material where they were written could be a skin of a goat or other animal, papyrus, wood tablets, wood tablets with wax, tablets of clay, velum, or metal plates, like golden plates, or copper plates.

It is remarkable that most of the content in the books found in the Bible today have been preserved so well, barred any mistranslation. That fact can only be attributed to a loving Father in Heaven, who wants us to know the way back to HIm, as they have been preserved through so many centuries and have been gone through so many copies and hands.

2. Nevertheless, as a scribe copied from another copy or original, he was bound to introduce human errors. There was no electricity so, much of the copies made were done in pour lighting condition. The copier would be tired, as that was a tedious work. Furthermore, translation were subject to the interpretation of the scribes and the leaders. In many cases they would choose, add or omit a word in order to best fit their own belief, our view. Can you how error could be introduced easily?

As you can see from the above, the Bible contains the word of God, but only as far as the translation is correct, i.e. when it is exactly in accordance to what He intended to be written when it was written originally. That is one of the reasons that when we read it, we need to ask Father in Heaven to witness to us of the truth of what we read, so we are not led astray.

Having said all the above, in some points I agree with the previous post. But I would add that when you learn a principle in the Bible and then you read something that seems to contradict it, it is because we don't know the whole of the principle we learned, or there is some information missing in the scripture itself that was somehow lost along the way, or it was simply the perspective of the original writer, or a word that was translated inadequately. The true truth seeker will wait in the Lord and seek His direct guidance for a clarification, rather than accept any interpretation. He/she will pray always with a sincere, honest heart, and real intent to understand it from the Lord Himself . When you read the scriptures in that fashion, the Lord will guide you to the truth.

There are many, many more things that God has revealed to His children that are not found in the Bible. The Bible is not the only revelation that God has given to His children.

For example, the apostle Paul, in 1 Cor. talk about baptism for those that died without hearing of the Gospel:
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" 1 Cor. 15: 29
Paul recognizes that doctrine but, that doctrine is not shown anywhere else in the Bible.
However, if you go to 1 Pet. 3: 19, it says that Christ, after He died "...he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" So, if you read the scriptures carefully and ask the Father to help you understand you'll see that it makes sense that people would baptize for those that died without having the Gospel, because the Gospel is preached to them, and if they accept it they need to be baptized. How else could they be baptized other by their descents that received the Gospel?
Have you ever thought about your ancestors that never heard of the Gospel?


Have a great day,
mamre
 
NinaMMitchell said:
Ok, I know it's a big belief in Christianity that the Bible is completely without error. Now, I am a Christian, and I don't want anyone saying otherwise because of what I'm about to say, but I don't believe that.
The reason is, there are too many contradictions. For example, in the gospels, it says that Judas was paid 30 pieces of silver for turning Jesus over, but that afterward, he felt guilty and gave the money back. In another part of the gospels it says that Judas hung himself on a piece of land he bought with the money. So one account says he gave back the money, another account says he bought land with it. One of those versions is wrong. How can people believe the Bible is 100% accurate when there are so many contradictions?
I'm not trying to sound like I'm against the Bible or like I'm not a Christian, because I am. I love Jesus and I have a relationship with Him, but I know people are going to look negatively on me for believing this way. Does anyone else agree with me, or can anyone explain how the Bible is without error despite the contradictions?


Judas killed himself on his own land. His father was a potter. The priests bought the land from the potter (Judas' father) to make a burial ground.

There are seeming contradictions in the bible. The one you stated is actually no contradiction at all.
 
mamre said:
For example, the apostle Paul, in 1 Cor. talk about baptism for those that died without hearing of the Gospel:
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

Baptism of the dead, mamre? :chin

hmmmm... Are you ready to make an announcement of some sort? ;)
 
i used to think that the bible was incomplete. till the holy ghost changed my heart.

if the bible was written and unspired as hj suggest then why are we even sacrificing our lives if need be over something that isnt true?
 
moussa was a prophet was he not? he prophecied corrrectly the coming of christ.

so did david, jeremiah, malachi with john the baptist, and also isiah with the lord and a host of more.

one cant be convinced here alone by this, as i wasnt, for i humbled my self and gave my heart to christ.

would you allow us to call the writers of the quran inept like this?
 
NinaMMitchell said:
Ok, I know it's a big belief in Christianity that the Bible is completely without error. Now, I am a Christian, and I don't want anyone saying otherwise because of what I'm about to say, but I don't believe that.

The reason is, there are too many contradictions. For example, in the gospels, it says that Judas was paid 30 pieces of silver for turning Jesus over, but that afterward, he felt guilty and gave the money back. In another part of the gospels it says that Judas hung himself on a piece of land he bought with the money. So one account says he gave back the money, another account says he bought land with it. One of those versions is wrong. How can people believe the Bible is 100% accurate when there are so many contradictions?

I'm not trying to sound like I'm against the Bible or like I'm not a Christian, because I am. I love Jesus and I have a relationship with Him, but I know people are going to look negatively on me for believing this way. Does anyone else agree with me, or can anyone explain how the Bible is without error despite the contradictions?

Hi NinaMMitchell,

Some say 'the Bible is completely without error'. More would probably say that 'in matters of doctrine and faith the bible is completely without error.' Of course the scriptures would also have to be interpreted correctly for this to be true at a practical level.

Contradictions and errors can also arise out of poor translations. If the problem is deeper, and this happens, then it goes back to the Greek or Hebrew texts (compilations) from which the translation was made. The Greek new testament and Hebrew old testament go back to the manuscripts from which they were compiled. There is fantastic summary in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categories ... anuscripts

The manuscripts, fragments etc are all copies of the autograph originals we don't have and contain 'variant readings' that have been classified in various ways eg by letters eg A virtually certain, B some degree of dount, C considerable degree of doubt and D very high degree of doubt. In instances where there is no appreciable differences between variants - the text can still be unclear but this does not mean that it is an error. The Lord has left His scriptures to us historically in this (manuscript) manner and it has been the best way to safeguard the integrity of His word.

About 'negative reactions'. I was once in an unhealthy Christian culture/subculture - a local fellowship where the Pastor was a retired man ministering on a temporary basis. A new pastor had been appointed and in talking to him he said (of the retired Pastor) 'he's an easily threatened man'. I'll never forget those words - they were so accurate. In Christian culture there are many easily threatened men and women - bless them all!
 
Mujahid Abdullah said:
You interpret that as the coming of Jesus, based on your beleif. I interpret it the old testament in an entirely diffent way. But the Old Testament is not the book that bothers me, its the books written down by mark, mathew, luke, and Paul especially.

Mujahid, I wonder if you are involved in any other threads that apply to this topic. I'd like to discuss this with you in depth, but this isn't the place. Are you discussing this anywhere else? I see some similarities in your logic to vintage Muslim argument to the authenticity of scripture. I'd like to compare the history/archeology of the Koran to the Bible, but Nina asked a question that has little to do with this matter, and it probably deserves its own attention.

In fact, any discussion or argument to this point should be debated in the "Other Religions" forum.

Thanks, MA

Mike
 
Here is the key: to ask yourself is GOD wrong or is your understanding wrong?

I completely agree. I used to go through these contradiction phases awhile back ago when I wasnt as strong of a christian and then things would get revealed to me and I would realize it was no contradiction at all but I did not understand.
 
Mike said:
mamre said:
For example, the apostle Paul, in 1 Cor. talk about baptism for those that died without hearing of the Gospel:
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
Baptism of the dead, mamre? :chin

hmmmm... Are you ready to make an announcement of some sort? ;)
In this passage, Paul is admonishing the Corinthians for adopting the practices of the local pagans. That practice is baptisms for the dead.

http://www.carm.org/baptism-for-the-dea ... ians-15-29
Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say we.2

This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.

Paul's point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection, otherwise, why would they baptize for the dead?
The commentary given at the link I provided is short. Please read it to get the entire message. :yes
 
Thanks Nick. I was afraid this had been swept under the rug, but a baptism of the dead post deserves to be responded to; not ignored.
 
These men who wrote it were not even prophets?

Actually the true definition of prophecy is the expression of God's will. Not nessecarily just telling the future. The fact that these men spoke with the Holy Spirit shows them to be prophets in that they expressed inerrently the will of God.

When Moses(AS) came down off mount sianai, he had in his hand the unadulterated word of God, the ten comandments, God gave the word to Prophet, and the Prophet gave it to the people.

and Jesus Christ did not come to change that law and in effect was the fulfilment of that law, which the New Testament writers declare and prove.

With the bible you have the stories of men, one of which never met jesus(AS), men who made mistakes.
Yet you call it the Word of God?

Actually Paul (whom I think you are refering to) did meet Jesus on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:5). Or do you mean that an encounter with the risen Jesus was not as valid as one with the pre-crucified Jesus (which would be ludicrous btw,)

There are parts of the bible today which were added by scribes hundreds of years later, now that scribes mistake is the word of God? Make me understand this logic of yours?


We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty ~ 2 Peter 1:16 (NIV)

Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." Luke 24:44 (NIV)
 
My definition of a Prophet, and what I was always taught as a Christian was a man who received divine revelation from God, not divine inspiration as is the normal claim of the men who wrote the bible,
.

But if Jesus was God, and he directly TOLD them will was, then was this not direct revelation, and in a sense making these men very much unto like prophets.., men who came forth to declare to the world God's will?
 
i think the men who wrote the bible in the nt were both inspired and had the divine revalation. as paul. and john and peter and others did speak some seriously prophetic things that havent come to pass.
 
Mujahid Abdullah said:
jasoncran said:
i think the men who wrote the bible in the nt were both inspired and had the divine revalation. as paul. and john and peter and others did speak some seriously prophetic things that havent come to pass.

So where do you draw the line on Prophet, why dont you guys (or maybe you do) accept the mormons as prophets, or david coresh, or any other guy who sees a vision while alone in the dessert to damascus?
does the said prophet line up with the bible that is known to us

mormonism contradicts the genesis account. as they claim that jesus and satan are brothers in the book of mormon. and that we are all spirits before we came to the earth.
 
Mujahid Abdullah said:
jasoncran said:
my grandma is a jew and i have seen the jewish canon,and the apochrya isnt in it!
Why would it be, there is a christian apochrypha, books written after the acent of Jesus(AS), and there is the jewish apochrypha came about from Jewish writers (by there own admission) writing "the Word of God" between 200bc and 100ad. Also, the apochrypha is not a part of jewish canon, this is why its called apochryphal - untrustworthy.


yes, but the same books in the apochprya are used in the canons of some catholics.

i dont think that the niceans approved the apochrpya. and i'm not sure on this.(if the catholics still use it)
 
Back
Top