Converting to a Catholic

[francisdesales]

Fnerb....It is against my personal nature to come and be confrontational and I can put up with allot of things....

You got to be kidding me. Would you like me to post the obnoxious and confrontational things you have posted, Javier? Can't you just simply disagree with me? You got to make fun of me and my beliefs, as well? You aren't confrontational? The Catholic Church is kept in existence because of the devil??? What sort of "non-confrontational" language is that? Do you actually read your posts?

Perhaps that beam in your eye is preventing you from seeing your own actions.

 

[francisdesales]

I find it sad that the catholics are more hurt when they are insulted rather than when the Word of God is challenged. Selfish anger comes when we ourselves are insulted. But righteous anger comes when God is insulted, as Jesus showed us by his actions in the temple.

I find it more sad that you think your opinion of Scriptures = God's intent. I don't find your name on the "infallible list" in my Bible...

Can't you accept the fact that people can read a book in different ways? Or do you think you cannot make a mistake?

 

[francisdesales]

We are presently being "treated" to some of the rhetoric that some protestant evangelicals muster in their attempt to discredit Catholicism.

There will always be those who will approach these discussions with the single minded purpose of discrediting beliefs they do not hold. These people are passionate about "their position" and not passionate about what is important - the truth.

This is evidenced by their stark refusal to accept solid arguments that undermine their positions. Its almost as if reason does not matter and they cling to their position despite it. A recent example is the whole Matt 1:25 thing. The arguments to this point are decisive - this text, in and of itself, does not warrant a conclusion that Mary and Joseph ever had intercourse. The "until always means a state transition" argument has been dissembled with precision and clarity. But this seems to matter not one whit. But there may be further arguments. And that is but one example.

I would like to encourage those who have taken the high ground to stay there. And I encourage the others to take that same route.

At the end of the day, I believe those who use rhetoric may indeed "win" for a day. I am not so naive to think that rhetoric does not sway people - it does.

But I have to believe that sober, careful, and correct arguments determine the long term outcome. There are doubtless lurkers in these forums that are "shopping" for something to believe. I am hopeful that these people, who are not hopelessly trapped in a "my present belief must prevail even if it is proved to be wrong" mindset, can advance in their search despite the braying of the rhetoric merchants.

People who, with humility, accept that life is a 70 year process of correcting mistaken ideas , are the ones who can change the world in the long run.

Wise words to live by, Drew.

 

[jgredline]

Drew, inspight of the fact that he has said he is an open theist and does not believe God knows the beginning from the end
sometimes does have some good things to say no dought...

 

[Drew]

Drew, inspight of the fact that he has said he is an open theist and does not believe God knows the beginning from the end
sometimes does have some good things to say no dought...

Thanks.....

And since you live in LA (of which Anaheim is basically a suburb if I am not mistaken) and I live in Ottawa (Ontario - not Calfornia), we will probably be rooting for different teams in the Stanley Cup final.

Your "duck-like" avatar is not, perchance, a sign that you are fan of the Anaheim ducks, is it?

 

[francisdesales]

Thanks.....

And since you live in LA (of which Anaheim is basically a suburb if I am not mistaken) and I live in Ottawa (Ontario - not Calfornia), we will probably be rooting for different teams in the Stanley Cup final.

Your "duck-like" avatar is not, perchance, a sign that you are fan of the Anaheim ducks, is it?

I'm a die-hard Sabre fan! Ottawa played a great series and Buffalo had one good player out there...

I'll be rooting for Ottawa, since I'm an Eastern Conference guy, and Ottawa deserves the Cup after all these years they've been close.

Regards

 

[Drew]

I'm a die-hard Sabre fan! Ottawa played a great series and Buffalo had one good player out there...

I'll be rooting for Ottawa, since I'm an Eastern Conference guy, and Ottawa deserves the Cup after all these years they've been close.

Regards

If the mods will indulge this rather obvious deviation from topic (for which I am responsible), I will say that I intended to root for the Sabres if they advanced. They, too, have excelled for years and not yet won the Cup.

 

[cyberjosh]

We are presently being "treated" to some of the rhetoric that some protestant evangelicals muster in their attempt to discredit Catholicism.

There will always be those who will approach these discussions with the single minded purpose of discrediting beliefs they do not hold. These people are passionate about "their position" and not passionate about what is important - the truth.

I personally and honestly try to avoid sarcasm & bias against Catholics (though I will openly & firmly disagree with them), else I would loose respect with them and they wouldn't even listen to what I had to say. Making fun of the Catholic Church doesn't help anything and it's pettiness. Only through reasonable discussion can any kind of understanding be reached, if any. And if in the end we disagree then atleast we know we didn't stoop to the gutter to get there.

~Josh

 

[jgredline]

I am not a hockey fan, although since they are ducks, I suppose I will root for them.....

 

[francisdesales]

I personally and honestly try to avoid sarcasm & bias against Catholics (though I will openly & firmly disagree with them), else I would loose respect with them and they wouldn't even listen to what I had to say. Making fun of the Catholic Church doesn't help anything and it's pettiness. Only through reasonable discussion can any kind of understanding be reached, if any. And if in the end we disagree then atleast we know we didn't stoop to the gutter to get there.

~Josh

Very well said. I think some people need to put the shoe on the other foot. When if THEIR faith was attacked for an entire month consistently by the same persons and you have felt that you have given adequate responses - yet they not only disagree, but condemn you as going to hell, being stupid, and so forth. What is even more frustrating is that these same people CLAIM to have the Holy Spirit guarding their private interpretations - while "allowing" them to be so very un-Christianlike towards someone else! The hypocrisy is befuddlingly so because they don't even see their religious superiority complex (nor did the Pharisees).

If some people here would put themselves in those shoes for a month, then ask yourself if you would take that accuser/protagonist seriously? Now, if someone whom I thought was virtuous and holy called me those things, I would humbly accept it. But I don't see it from the charecters here that call Catholics stupid and so forth. Thus, how far can one continue to "throw pearls to the swine"? (this doesn't mean someone is a pig, but that they will not understand the value of what is offered - as a pig will not understand a precious stone). The conversations move that much more quickly into dead ends.

I have the utmost respect for a Protestant who can defend his faith, disagree with me, and at the end of the day, we still have respect for each other and have not condemned the other to hell. The rest have a lot to learn about the One whom they claim to follow.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

If the mods will indulge this rather obvious deviation from topic (for which I am responsible), I will say that I intended to root for the Sabres if they advanced. They, too, have excelled for years and not yet won the Cup.

As poorly as Buffalo played, a few lucky bounces in overtime might have changed the outlook of the series...

The 1-0 shutout was THE statement game vs. Buffalo for Ottawa. Very impressive. (Imagine how badly Ottawa would have clobbered Buffalo if Miller wasn't the goaltender...) If they do not let up, they'll win it this year.

Joe

 

[jgredline]

There are many things that one can agree to disagree on, but there are also many things that folks can choose to sit on the fence and turn away....as if it were not there....

I had no idea really how out there the CC really is...I did my own homework on it and so much is against what scripture teaches...So so much, it is not even funny....

Pretending that nothing is wrong is what has started the seeker friendly / emergent church movement...Jesus called those false teachers what they were...A brood of vipers....If Josh wants to be politically correct about it, that is cool...That is the way God made him....I have to use the Gifts God gave me the best way I could....If I did not care about this forum, and the seekers, I would let the false teaching go on, but that is not who I am....

If I saw a mugging on the street or somebody needed help pushing there broken down car, I would stop and help....

You may look at my sarcasm with disgust, but what I have said is true....
although, you may not see it.....I know there are many who feel the way I do here on this very forum, and agree with what I am saying, although they may have used a more finesse way of saying it or say nothing at all in order to keep the peace....Sorry, that is not me....If you want to go to war, I and Solo and jack as well as a few others will be there until the end...We would not turn tail and run....Jesus never ran, the apostles never ran, paul never ran, and the early church fathers of whom I have studied never ran, so why should I run..... ?

I have serious concerns about many folk who I know are trapped in this sect called the CC......I had no idea of the madness...To think that the catholic church believes it can take someones salvation is crazy......

You may have looked at Jack with disgust in what he said about the pedofile priest and stuff and while that happens in all churches, the CC knew it was going on and left it alone...Now they are having to sell property to pay off the lawsuits against them....How can a priest molest young boys with out being demoniacally possessed? Oppressed? Maybe, but maybe not....

What I have learned this past moth about the CC disgusts me....

 

[golfjack]

reply

Thanks Javier for the kind words. I can assure you that I will not compromise the Word of God. God's business is serious business and as a Preacher/teacher I will always stand up for the Truth. A Church that preaches there is no hell, trinity, and so forth should receive correction. I perceive that the Catholic Church is the biggest violator of the Truth of the Gospel. They havve over a billion members, which are being deceived. Did you see my last post about Apostate Churches Javier? I believe the Catholic Church will be the leader of the Apostate Church, you know, a one world church. They will be the whore of Bablyon along with the other world religions.

Right now, I am going to watch what is going on in Lebanon. It doesn't look good.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[francisdesales]

I had no idea really how out there the CC really is...I did my own homework on it and so much is against what scripture teaches...So so much, it is not even funny....

You did your homework? LOL! May I test you?? Let's put that boast to the test, if you dare.


What WOULD be funny, if it weren't so pitiful, is that the Sola Scripturists believe something that is self-refuting, leading people away from God's truth AND Sola Fide, something that is EXPLICITLY DENIED in Scriptures. Two for the price of one! :roll:

Let's see.

Sola Scriptura - a tradition of men invented in the 1500's or so.
Sola Fide - a tradition of men that is spoken AGAINST in the Scriptures.

:

It's sad. Sad that you have the gall to continue with your accusations.

What I have learned here is that you seem to feel more comfortable tearing things down and making fun of others, rather than building others up... I suppose that is what dissenters do best. Reject what has been established so they can put themselves on a pedestal with God...

You may continue to persecute me. It is merely a continuation of what has gone before...

"Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you" Mat 5:10-12

Carry on with your words of "love" moved by the "spirit". By your words you are known.

 

[jgredline]

You may continue to persecute me. It is merely a continuation of what has gone before...

Joe
Perhaps you can point me to where I have persecuted you....My grievance is against this machine called the Catholic Church...I however can point to places where you have attacked me personally....

But to rehash some of the catholic church heresies.....

1) That the Catholic church can ex communicate folks and take their salvation..

2) Mary worship...It is ok to have graven images of her inspight of the fact that the bible prohips this...

3) Why the Catholic church feels the need to lie about Mary being a virgin AFTER the birth of Jesus is beyond me...

4) Why the catholic Church has eph 2:8-9 in their bibles is a mystery to me, since they base their salvation off of works...

5) That the Death of Jesus was not enough and so they had to make up this place they call purgatory....This is a total disgrace and total disrepect of the Lord Jesus Christ for what he did on the cross....

 

[Guest]

This question is open to anyone:

What does it mean to worship Mary?

Catholics say that they do not, Protestants say that they do. Perhaps the rub is in the difinition of worship.

I would ask, why Catholics keep a statue of Mary somehwere on their property. Also, in many Catholic homes there is a statue of mary in the window. Isn't there something about if she faces out the window you are to have good weather?

And correct me if I am not mistaken, but don't Catholics believe in patron saints that they pray to for certain things? Patron saint of lost causes, etc etc

 

[Solo]

This question is open to anyone:

What does it mean to worship Mary?

Catholics say that they do not, Protestants say that they do. Perhaps the rub is in the difinition of worship.

I would ask, why Catholics keep a statue of Mary somehwere on their property. Also, in many Catholic homes there is a statue of mary in the window. Isn't there something about if she faces out the window you are to have good weather?

And correct me if I am not mistaken, but don't Catholics believe in patron saints that they pray to for certain things? Patron saint of lost causes, etc etc

A Roman Catholic that says, "I do not worship Mary" is similar to the comment of an alcoholic that says, "I am not an alcoholic!"