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Coronavirus Pandemic, why does God allow it

OzSpen said:
You spiritualised what was literal.
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No, I did not spiritualize it. All of God's promises are literal for everyone whether under the old covenant beginning with Noah in Genesis 6:6-8; 9:1-17; the Abrahamic covenant, Genesis 12:1-3; Mosaic covenant, Exodus 19-24 and the new covenant of grace through Christ Jesus, Genesis 3:15.

2 Chronicles 7:12-22 is the Lord confirming His covenant with only Israel, or did He have the Gentiles also in mind back in Genesis 3:15?

Do you not believe that God would send pestilence upon the land even today as He has done before and also in the end of days after the seventh trumpet is sounded? This pandemic is different then all the other ones before it that wiped out many people as this time the Government is involved with all of it making decisions for everyone making them to conform to their ruling power, but yet setting the world in total chaos. I believe what God said in 2 Chronicles and confirmed by James in James 4:10 is for all His people as all, whether Jew or Gentile, Christian or not are all God's creation.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

IMO I believe God is shaking the earth trying to get everyone's attention as He sends us out into the world to witness Christ to others giving them the same hope and faith we are to have.
 
Quantrill said:
Yes, we are victims of death. And we are alive unto Christ.

The spiritual war exists. satan comes against the people of God and if he could kill us all he would. But God is the final authority. That doesn't mean the war doesn't exist.

And when that day comes, when satan has a missionary by the throat to kill him through the mobs he has incited, he is not doing it to do God's will. He is doing it to kill the man of God. God however has selected this one to come home.

And it doesn't have to be a 'missionary'. It can just be a Christian involved in a war such as VietNam. The enemy knows it wants to kill him. They don't consider the spiritual warfare. But satan is behind them doing what he can to eliminate this believer.

As Joseph said, (Gen. 50:20), "But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good,...."

Quantrill
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If you want to be a victim of death that is your choice as I will never be a victim, but will gladly lay my life down for another if it brings them to Christ. Do you think Jesus was a victim when the angry mob had Him nailed to a cross as He suffered and died?

I never said the war whether literal or Spiritual did not exist, but that we as a child of God are to be prepared for battle and fear not of what others can and will do against us.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
for_his_glory said:
If you want to be a victim of death that is your choice as I will never be a victim, but will gladly lay my life down for another if it brings them to Christ. Do you think Jesus was a victim when the angry mob had Him nailed to a cross as He suffered and died?

I never said the war whether literal or Spiritual did not exist, but that we as a child of God are to be prepared for battle and fear not of what others can and will do against us.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
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It is not a question of 'if you want to be'. It is a question of , 'are you willing to be."

You act like death is preferable. So, is it? Do you want to die? Please, lie to me and say you want to die.

Quantrill
 
I will say it. I want to die. But Christ won't let me. He tells me he needs me and that I have a lot to do before I can come home.
 
Dear Quantrill: The Holy Spirit has asked me to tell you something. Don't shoot the messenger.

You are an avoidant who is addicted to drama. What does that mean? It means you like to stir up drama because it excites you and you do it to push people away because you are afraid of rejection. Yes, it is that complicated. You also have some anger issues which compensate for your underlying issues such as unresolved childhood trauma and past failures in your life which you attribute to others being out to get you.

In other words, you are me before recovery.

While the symptoms are complicated the solution is simple. Stop trying to upset people as a test to see if they are going to abandon you like someone did in the past. Be a little bit more tolerant of those who disagree with you. Stick around because we want you to be happy. We accept you. We love you. We are not going anywhere.

Some of your ideas are brilliant. Others are more controversial. You seem to not like it when people disagree with you. Your comment to me was a bit rough. I was trying to be honest and confide in you. I have been wanting to die since I was ten years old. I have been depressed most of my life. I can't wait to get to heaven and be with all my loved ones who have left me. The world is a mess and I don't fit in. I want out. I want to be with Jesus all the time and sit in his shadow. Not everybody wants to live, but we hang around out of love for Jesus Christ.

I had a dream once. I was in heaven and God was asking me to go down to earth and help people. I burst out in tears and said I did not want to go. He said I must. I stopped crying, looked into his face and said, "Father. Of course will go. It for such a short time after all." Then I woke up.

So here I am. A misfit trying to help others with my limited intellect and immature spirituality. And I will stay until God finally calls me home. Right now I miss my husband who died a year ago. It is very painful. I miss him. But he is waiting for me to catch up.

I say all this in the hopes of lifting your spirits not making you angry. Welcome to this forum. Christ is here. We are here.
 
Susannah said:
Dear Quantrill: The Holy Spirit has asked me to tell you something. Don't shoot the messenger.

You are an avoidant who is addicted to drama. What does that mean? It means you like to stir up drama because it excites you and you do it to push people away because you are afraid of rejection. Yes, it is that complicated. You also have some anger issues which compensate for your underlying issues such as unresolved childhood trauma and past failures in your life which you attribute to others being out to get you.

In other words, you are me before recovery.

While the symptoms are complicated the solution is simple. Stop trying to upset people as a test to see if they are going to abandon you like someone did in the past. Be a little bit more tolerant of those who disagree with you. Stick around because we want you to be happy. We accept you. We love you. We are not going anywhere.

Some of your ideas are brilliant. Others are more controversial. You seem to not like it when people disagree with you. Your comment to me was a bit rough. I was trying to be honest and confide in you. I have been wanting to die since I was ten years old. I have been depressed most of my life. I can't wait to get to heaven and be with all my loved ones who have left me. The world is a mess and I don't fit in. I want out. I want to be with Jesus all the time and sit in his shadow. Not everybody wants to live, but we hang around out of love for Jesus Christ.

I had a dream once. I was in heaven and God was asking me to go down to earth and help people. I burst out in tears and said I did not want to go. He said I must. I stopped crying, looked into his face and said, "Father. Of course will go. It for such a short time after all." Then I woke up.

So here I am. A misfit trying to help others with my limited intellect and immature spirituality. And I will stay until God finally calls me home. Right now I miss my husband who died a year ago. It is very painful. I miss him. But he is waiting for me to catch up.

I say all this in the hopes of lifting your spirits not making you angry. Welcome to this forum. Christ is here. We are here.
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Again, I appreciate your concern, but me being angry at times is not 'anger issues'. It is just being angry. No problem.

I am not addicted to drama. But drama exists in the Christians life. It is unavoidable. Just as rejection is. Everyone deals with it.

You misunderstand. If I run into conflict, it is because of what I believe concerning God and the Bible. It is not because I am trying to 'test someone'.

Yes, my comments can be rough, but they are honest. You tell me God told me this. But what if I said God told me just the opposite?

Sorry to hear of your husband. Loss is always hard. My condolences.

You don't make me angry. But neither do I feel the need for my spirit to be lifted up at this time.

You say 'Christ is here'. Perhaps with some. But for me the jury is still out on most.

Quantrill
 
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Quantrill said:
It is not a question of 'if you want to be'. It is a question of , 'are you willing to be."

You act like death is preferable. So, is it? Do you want to die? Please, lie to me and say you want to die.

Quantrill
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Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

As long as I live I will witness the love of Christ and His Gospel of grace and continue with my dying breath unless the Lord returns first. If I die before His glorious return I will be made alive again in the resurrection and be with Him in all eternity, John 5:28, 29.
 
for_his_glory said:
2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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FHG,

Who were the people to whom 2 Chron 7:14 was addressed? This is the immediate context:

11 Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king's house. All that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished. 12 Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice. 13 When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command the locust to devour the land, or send pestilence among my people, 14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land (2 Chron 7:11-14 ESV).​

So King Solomon finishing the 'house of the Lord and the king's house' tells us exactly who are the recipients of 2 Chron 7:14 - the ones over whom Solomon was king.

This is stated clearly in the context: 'When all the people of Israel saw the fire come down and the glory of the Lord on the temple, they bowed down with their faces to the ground on the pavement and worshipped and gave thanks to the Lord, saying, “For he is good, for his steadfast love endures for ever' (2 Chron 7:3 ESV).

So 2 Chron 7:14 was not a promise for today's Christians but for the Israelites. We violate Scripture when we reef it out of context to make it mean what it does not mean.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
FHG,

Who were the people to whom 2 Chron 7:14 was addressed? This is the immediate context:

11 Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king's house. All that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished. 12 Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice. 13 When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command the locust to devour the land, or send pestilence among my people, 14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land (2 Chron 7:11-14 ESV).​

So King Solomon finishing the 'house of the Lord and the king's house' tells us exactly who are the recipients of 2 Chron 7:14 - the ones over whom Solomon was king.

This is stated clearly in the context: 'When all the people of Israel saw the fire come down and the glory of the Lord on the temple, they bowed down with their faces to the ground on the pavement and worshipped and gave thanks to the Lord, saying, “For he is good, for his steadfast love endures for ever' (2 Chron 7:3 ESV).

So 2 Chron 7:14 was not a promise for today's Christians but for the Israelites. We violate Scripture when we reef it out of context to make it mean what it does not mean.

Oz
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I don't believe I am violating scripture by reefing it out of context, but giving full context in how I understand the scriptures.

I see 2 Chronicles 7:12-22 as a dual reference first for the Israelite's as it was written specifically for that era about Solomon and the Temple as God chose that place to himself for an house of sacrifice, meaning a house of prayer as His people needed to humble themselves and pray and seek his face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will God hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Acts 7:44-49; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17 we who are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit are the Temple of God not made by hands and also need to call others to humble themselves in the sight of God and He will lift us up, James 4:1-10. If everyone would turn back to God, seek His face and turn from their wicked ways God will hear them, forgive them and heal our land from nation rising against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be no more famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
 
for_his_glory said:
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

As long as I live I will witness the love of Christ and His Gospel of grace and continue with my dying breath unless the Lord returns first. If I die before His glorious return I will be made alive again in the resurrection and be with Him in all eternity, John 5:28, 29.
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Yes, death holds nothing over us. We have eternal life now. Thus I am willing to go anytime the Lord sees fit. But, I don't try and rush it. But I do know the loss, as most do, at times where you wish the Lord would take you. But it subsides over time.

It is strange that when you are a youth you dread those who are close to you dying and leaving you. When you get older, you don't have that dread anymore. Instead, you hate and dread to leave those you love behind.
Quantrill
 
for_his_glory said:
I don't believe I am violating scripture by reefing it out of context, but giving full context in how I understand the scriptures.
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FHG,

I provided the evidence in my last post that you are reefing 2 Chron 7:14 (ESV) out of context.

I'll no longer respond to you further on this topic. :wall :wave

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
FHG,

I provided the evidence in my last post that you are reefing 2 Chron 7:14 (ESV) out of context.

I'll no longer respond to you further on this topic. :wall:wave

Oz
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She acknowledged that the immediate context was to the Israelites, as you stated.


Can you see that there may be a further fulfillment by those who worship God in spirit and truth?


Please don’t give up on expounding these truths.





JLB
 
Quantrill said:
Yes, death holds nothing over us. We have eternal life now. Thus I am willing to go anytime the Lord sees fit. But, I don't try and rush it. But I do know the loss, as most do, at times where you wish the Lord would take you. But it subsides over time.

It is strange that when you are a youth you dread those who are close to you dying and leaving you. When you get older, you don't have that dread anymore. Instead, you hate and dread to leave those you love behind.
Quantrill
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Is it better to be with the Lord in the resurrection on the last day or to hate leaving those you have loved behind as they rejected the Gospel being preached to them?
 
OzSpen said:
FHG,

I provided the evidence in my last post that you are reefing 2 Chron 7:14 (ESV) out of context.

I'll no longer respond to you further on this topic. :wall :wave

Oz
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And I presented in my post that I am not reefing so that just brings us at a standstill between us and nothing wrong with that as we are ever learning. I hold no animosity towards you as we disagree.

God bless
 
OzSpen said:
No. That would be an invention and so eisegesis.
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Do you think that what God spoke and had the Prophets write in the OT is not relevant for us today?

The whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation is all about Israel, Jew and also Gentile as God being above all and in all that will humble themselves before Him and seek His face.

Do you not think that God would heal our land if everyone were to turn back to Him?
 
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