Could God's plan for the lost be this simple?

[eddif]

Galatians 4:22 kjv
22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Just to read the story gives a physical slant.

To read the NT gives the rest of the story (the spiritual side).

eddif

 

[Alfred Persson]

Adios Moses, Joshua, David, and all the predecessors of Jesus.
Or, we can see that in the OT many believed on a coming Messiah and did their best to live according to the Law with a heart set on honoring God.
The Law won't save them, but their faith will.

Paul contradicts your traditions, yet you persist.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Its clear the OT saints were saved by Grace through Christ. His sacrifice applies to everyone who ever lived:

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Heb. 9:19-26 KJV)

Therefore, Paul says all Isael shall be saved" in Christ completely contradicting "Adios Moses, Joshua, David, and all the predecessors of Jesus" theory, an odd tradition you obviously invented and are proud of.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Rom. 11:26 KJV)

To make your sin even worse, you read and ignored Christ our LORD when He condemned following odd traditions men like you invent, rather than the Word of God:

Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (Matt. 15:6 NIB)

But that doesn't faze you, not a bit.

Now the only question remaining is:

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Lk. 6:46 KJV)

I hope you choose to repent. Our LORD and Master Jesus Christ is returning soon, and He won't deal lightly with those who don't know Him, and are no profit to Him at all:

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Matt. 25:24-30 KJV)

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen. (Matt. 22:11-14 KJV)

 

[Hopeful]

Paul contradicts your traditions, yet you persist.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Its clear the OT saints were saved by Grace through Christ. His sacrifice applies to everyone who ever lived:

How could OT folks get "in Christ", in whom is verse 24's redemption?
Us NT folks can be baptized into Christ, (Rom 6:3), but the OT folks?
Their means of salvation was faith in a coming Messiah.
The ones with faith rejoiced to see Jesus Christ.
The ones without faith, and will not be saved, killed Him.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Heb. 9:19-26 KJV)

Therefore, Paul says all Isael shall be saved" in Christ completely contradicting "Adios Moses, Joshua, David, and all the predecessors of Jesus" theory, an odd tradition you obviously invented and are proud of.

My statement was in response to the idea that the OT saints won't be saved.
They will be saved, even thought they only had the Law to enable it.
It was that faith, along with the Law, that governed their lives.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Rom. 11:26 KJV)
To make your sin even worse, you read and ignored Christ our LORD when He condemned following odd traditions men like you invent, rather than the Word of God:
Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (Matt. 15:6 NIB)

My traditions?
Saved, in spite of living by the Law...(to the faithful best of their ability).

But that doesn't faze you, not a bit.

I can see you think I said something I really didn't say.
That being, (I think), that men can't be saved while under the Law.

Now the only question remaining is:
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Lk. 6:46 KJV)
I hope you choose to repent. Our LORD and Master Jesus Christ is returning soon, and He won't deal lightly with those who don't know Him, and are no profit to Him at all:

Perhaps we can get a better understanding of our possible differences if you illustrate exactly what I am to repent of?

 

[Alfred Persson]

How could OT folks get "in Christ", in whom is verse 24's redemption?
Us NT folks can be baptized into Christ, (Rom 6:3), but the OT folks?
Their means of salvation was faith in a coming Messiah.
The ones with faith rejoiced to see Jesus Christ.
The ones without faith, and will not be saved, killed Him.

My statement was in response to the idea that the OT saints won't be saved.
They will be saved, even thought they only had the Law to enable it.
It was that faith, along with the Law, that governed their lives.

My traditions?
Saved, in spite of living by the Law...(to the faithful best of their ability).

I can see you think I said something I really didn't say.
That being, (I think), that men can't be saved while under the Law.

Perhaps we can get a better understanding of our possible differences if you illustrate exactly what I am to repent of?

You think God is bound by time and space? He saved the OT saints because of their faith, not the law which no one could keep well enough, to merit salvation.

And no one is saved apart from the sacrifice of the Lamb who was "slain from the foundation of the World" from God's perspective:

the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8 KJV)


Your odd theory the OT saints can't be saved apart from the law, is just that, odd.

And wrong.

All the OT saints are saved, albeit not because of the law, just as Paul said, repeatedly.

Try reading the scripture quotes again, and stop overlaying the Bible with your odd and wrong theory. It just might teach you the truth about how the OT saints were actually saved.

Repent from preferring your traditions (=oddball theories) above Paul's clear and precise words the OT saints are saved, but not by the law.

 

[Hopeful]

You think God is bound by time and space? He saved the OT saints because of their faith, not the law which no one could keep well enough, to merit salvation.

We can't even "merit" salvation today.
Obey God and live forever.
You are correct about their faith though.

And no one is saved apart from the sacrifice of the Lamb who was "slain from the foundation of the World" from God's perspective:

the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8 KJV)

You just got done saying the OT saints were saved by faith.

Your odd theory the OT saints can't be saved apart from the law, is just that, odd.

Apart from the Law?
News to me.

All the OT saints are saved, albeit not because of the law, just as Paul said, repeatedly.
Try reading the scripture quotes again, and stop overlaying the Bible with your odd and wrong theory. It just might teach you the truth about how the OT saints were actually saved.
Repent from preferring your traditions (=oddball theories) above Paul's clear and precise words the OT saints are saved, but not by the law.

It is written..."Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved: but he that is perverse in his ways shall fall at once." (Ps 28:18)
What is used to determined what is upright?
The Law.

My POV is this.
The righteous of the OT will be saved on the day of judgement.
Their righteousness will be measured by the Law.
It is written..."For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Rom 2:12-13)
As none could keep all of the Law perfectly, the ones judged righteous will be so because they also observed the Laws atonements.

 

[Alfred Persson]

We can't even "merit" salvation today.
Obey God and live forever.
You are correct about their faith though.

You just got done saying the OT saints were saved by faith.

Apart from the Law?
News to me.

It is written..."Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved: but he that is perverse in his ways shall fall at once." (Ps 28:18)
What is used to determined what is upright?
The Law.

My POV is this.
The righteous of the OT will be saved on the day of judgement.
Their righteousness will be measured by the Law.
It is written..."For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Rom 2:12-13)
As none could keep all of the Law perfectly, the ones judged righteous will be so because they also observed the Laws atonements.

Of course the OT saints knew nothing about Jesus, but they were saved by their faith in God. How could God accept their faith in lieu of merit? The ransom sacrifice of Christ which covers everyone from the foundation of the world onward, even though in time it didn't occur until the 1st century:

1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary.
2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary;
3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All,
4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;
5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services.
7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance;
8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.
9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience--
10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."
21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
(Heb. 9:1-28 NKJ)

This time, repent of ignoring the scripture for the sake of your own tradition (theories), meditate upon what the scripture says, pray to our heavenly Father for understanding, in Christ's name.

 

[eddif]

Of course the OT saints knew nothing about Jesus, but they were saved by their faith in God. How could God accept their faith in lieu of merit? The ransom sacrifice of Christ which covers everyone from the foundation of the world onward, even though in time it didn't occur until the 1st century:

1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary.
2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary;
3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All,
4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;
5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services.
7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance;
8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.
9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience--
10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."
21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
(Heb. 9:1-28 NKJ)

This time, repent of ignoring the scripture for the sake of your own tradition (theories), meditate upon what the scripture says, pray to our heavenly Father for understanding, in Christ's name.

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Short version:
The wings of our lungs
Overshadow the hidden man of the heart.

The 24 ribs bow before the throne.

The liver has the eagles wing flying

We are not holy, but contain the quickening spirit.

eddif