Covid Vaccine, a Gospel imperative

[WIP]

3. The unvaccinated needlessly divert hospital resources away from other patients.

I suspect it would be enlightening to learn how many of those "other patients" were in the hospital because they neglected to take care of their own bodies with healthy diets and exercise. With nearly half of the country (speaking of the US of course) being obese, likely myself included since I am 6'-1" and weighing roughly 210 pounds, we have proven to be very poor at taking care of ourselves. As a result obesity-related conditions are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death and include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. (source: CDC)

 

[Drew]

You want to force the vaccine on those who don't want to take it. All your posts support this.

Falsehood - you have no evidence at all for this. Please us to any post where I have stated or remotely implied that I want people to be forced to get the vaccine.

You will not find one - please retract your false accusation.

 

[Drew]

Romans 14 does apply. It is nt just vegetables He is speaking of, it is anything which goes into the body.

No. He is not talking about anything that goes into the body.

This is obvious - if I want to put deadly poison into my body, does Romans 14 really work? Of course not:

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only deadly poison. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who wants to eat deadly poison, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

See?

 

[Drew]

Fauci lies

What actual evidence - from a credible source - do you have that Dr. Fauci has ever lied about an important Covid-19 issue?

 

[JLB]

it is decidedly anti-gospel to needlessly place others at risk.

I agree. Why place perfectly healthy people at undo risk, by injecting them with…God knows what?

This goes especially for Covid recovery patients who have overcome the diseases effects with their natural immune system.


Makes no sense.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html


DIRECTLY FROM THE CDC. —

CDC Monitoring Reports of Myocarditis and Pericarditis
CDC has received increased reports of myocarditis and pericarditis in adolescents and young adults after COVID-19 vaccination. The known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.


Myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart muscle (myocardium). The inflammation can reduce your heart's ability to pump and cause rapid or abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias).

Infection with a virus usually causes myocarditis. Sometimes myocarditis can result from a reaction to a drug or be part of a more general inflammatory condition. Signs and symptoms include chest pain, fatigue, shortness of breath, and rapid or irregular heartbeats.

Severe myocarditis weakens your heart so that the rest of your body doesn't get enough blood. Clots can form in your heart, leading to a stroke or heart attack.



Pericarditis is swelling and irritation of the thin, saclike tissue surrounding your heart (pericardium). Pericarditis often causes sharp chest pain and sometimes other symptoms. The chest pain occurs when the irritated layers of the pericardium rub against each other.

Pericarditis is usually mild and goes away without treatment. Treatment for more-severe cases may include medications and, rarely, surgery. Early diagnosis and treatment may help reduce the risk of long-term complications from pericarditis.



These are the facts straight from the CDC.



JLB

 

[JLB]

What actual evidence - from a credible source - do you have that Dr. Fauci has ever lied about an important Covid-19 issue?

What actual evidence do you have that injecting people with this COVID vaccine is safe?

 

[Drew]

How come you don't want to look at this issue through a spiritual eye, or see what the word of God says? That's very odd for a Christian.

Who are you asking this question to? If to me, I suggest the answer is obvious.

Christians are supposed to care for the temple that is their body
Christians are supposed to be concerned for the welfare of others.

I do not think one needs a Phd in theology to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that vaccination is the "spiritual" thing to do.

 

[Drew]

This is not been proven to be an accurate statement and making such a statement could turn out to be a dangerous path. In fact, by your own admission that the vaccine is not 100% effective, what I say above is true.

1. Based on the best evidence we have, my statement is accurate. Of course, it could turn out that the vaccines have dangerous long-term effects. But you completely overlook the other side of the coin - what would the long term consequences of Covid be. Again, medical expertise comes down strongly on the side of vaccination here.
2. How does my admission that the vaccine is not 100% effective have anything to do with whether the vaccines might turn out to be dangerous in the long term.

Again, we need to look at all the aspects of this issue - if you are going to talk about long term risks of the vaccine, you need to balance them against long-term risks of not getting vaccinated against one of the most contagious pathogens that humanity has ever seen.

 

[WIP]

2. How does my admission that the vaccine is not 100% effective have anything to do with whether the vaccines might turn out to be dangerous in the long term.

You either didn't carefully read what I wrote or you are intentionally twisting my words into something that is not there, which is a form of false witness.

I claimed that your admission that the vaccines are not 100% effective contradicts your assertion that the vaccines are virtually zero-risk. At this point our differences would depend on what we individually define as "virtually" it would seem.

 

[WIP]

Again, we need to look at all the aspects of this issue

Agreed and it would seem that your view of the risk is different from mine. I don't consider the risk of infection either to me or from me, whether I'm vaccinated or not, to be much different than the potential risk of vaccine side effects either in the short term or long term simply because there are way too many unknowns yet and since the FDA has not been able to issue a full approval of any of these vaccines, which are experimental at this time, leaves plenty of room for questions. I just don't have that much faith in government or science.

 

[JLB]

Based on the best evidence we have, my statement is accurate. Of course, it could turn out that the vaccines have dangerous long-term effects.

The CDC has already shown the vaccine to be dangerous.

I agree. Why place perfectly healthy people at undo risk, by injecting them with…God knows what?

This goes especially for Covid recovery patients who have overcome the diseases effects with their natural immune system.


Makes no sense.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html


DIRECTLY FROM THE CDC. —

CDC Monitoring Reports of Myocarditis and Pericarditis
CDC has received increased reports of myocarditis and pericarditis in adolescents and young adults after COVID-19 vaccination. The known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.


Myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart muscle (myocardium). The inflammation can reduce your heart's ability to pump and cause rapid or abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias).

Infection with a virus usually causes myocarditis. Sometimes myocarditis can result from a reaction to a drug or be part of a more general inflammatory condition. Signs and symptoms include chest pain, fatigue, shortness of breath, and rapid or irregular heartbeats.

Severe myocarditis weakens your heart so that the rest of your body doesn't get enough blood. Clots can form in your heart, leading to a stroke or heart attack.



Pericarditis is swelling and irritation of the thin, saclike tissue surrounding your heart (pericardium). Pericarditis often causes sharp chest pain and sometimes other symptoms. The chest pain occurs when the irritated layers of the pericardium rub against each other.

Pericarditis is usually mild and goes away without treatment. Treatment for more-severe cases may include medications and, rarely, surgery. Early diagnosis and treatment may help reduce the risk of long-term complications from pericarditis.



These are the facts straight from the CDC.



JLB

Please stop giving medical advice to people when you don’t even know what is in the Vaccine.






JLB

 

[Edward]

Who are you asking this question to? If to me, I suggest the answer is obvious.

Christians are supposed to care for the temple that is their body
Christians are supposed to be concerned for the welfare of others.

I do not think one needs a Phd in theology to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that vaccination is the "spiritual" thing to do.

So essentially you're saying that you do not rely on the word of God for guidance. You are not a reader of your Bible. Right? I can tell by how you talk.

I'd really like to hear your testimony of how you got saved. I bet it's a real good one.

 

[Edward]

Who are you asking?

Actually, I had Drew in mind but it could be a good question for you too.

 

[Drew]

You either didn't carefully read what I wrote or you are intentionally twisting my words into something that is not there, which is a form of false witness.

I claimed that your admission that the vaccines are not 100% effective contradicts your assertion that the vaccines are virtually zero-risk. At this point our differences would depend on what we individually define as "virtually" it would seem.

I know what you claimed.

Let me be clear: the assertion that the vaccines are not 100% effective does not in any way contradict that the vaccines are zero-risk.

I have not done anything remotely resembling bearing false witness.

 

[Drew]

I agree. Why place perfectly healthy people at undo risk, by injecting them with…God knows what?

This goes especially for Covid recovery patients who have overcome the diseases effects with their natural immune system.


Makes no sense.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html

.....

These are the facts straight from the CDC.

It is deeply misleading to present things this way. Yes, the vaccines carry risks - we all know this.

The responsible way to look at this is to contrast the risk of getting the vaccine vs the risk of not getting the vaccine.

This is not even remotely debatable - both sides need to be examined.

 

[Drew]

What actual evidence do you have that injecting people with this COVID vaccine is safe?

First, you are not addressing my question. Let me repeat:

What actual evidence is there that Dr. Fauci lied?

This is a very simple, clear, and understandable question.

Second, I am not qualified to debate the science and I suspect neither are you. The simple truth that you are faced with is this: the overwhelming majority of qualified experts recommend the vaccine, even though we know the vaccine is not perfectly safe.

 

[Isilwen]

Actually, I had Drew in mind but it could be a good question for you too.

I'm not sure what God's word has to do with me being vaccinated and allowing others to choose to be vaccinated or not?

I choose to believe that God gave the researchers the knowledge to create the vaccine and have faith in that God directed them.

 

[Drew]

Agreed and it would seem that your view of the risk is different from mine. I don't consider the risk of infection either to me or from me, whether I'm vaccinated or not, to be much different than the potential risk of vaccine side effects either in the short term or long term simply because there are way too many unknowns yet and since the FDA has not been able to issue a full approval of any of these vaccines, which are experimental at this time, leaves plenty of room for questions. I just don't have that much faith in government or science.

Of course this is what you believe! We all know this is what you believe.

And it contradicts what the experts say. Could the experts be wrong? Of course they could be.

We will see, won't we?

 

[Drew]

Can't you discern a Government Schill when you see one? I can.

It's hard for me to understand how christians can have faith in Government. Didn't our last election teach you anything about your Government?!

Are you saying that you trust our government? I bet you even think that Biden won fair & square, huh?

In other words: you have no evidence.

 

[stovebolts]

How is the answer not obvious? The much better solution is to get vaccinated! There is no debate about this, assuming we are committed to dealing with reality, as contrasted with conspiracy theories and false information.

I’m sorry if you think I’m debating. I’m simply trying to have a reasoned conversation with you.

You and many others have reasoned that vaccination is the much better solution. However, you cannot force that reasoning on others who reason differently than you without considering their views.

For example, I believe Michigan in in the mid to upper 60 percent range when it comes to vaccination rates for those 12 and older. However, when you look at the city of Detroit, that rate is about 48 percent which is consistent with the black community nationwide with the exception of the southern states where those rates are much lower.

You have to ask why, and I’ve posted two links that show how the US government admitted that they lied to the black community and actually did medical experiments with them.

This is not false information Drew. It’s factual and it’s part of our US history.

Trust is a huge factor in getting people to do things. And when that trust has been betrayed, people won’t respond. As a result, when you say false information, it’s only false depending on ones perspective, and trust is part of peoples reasoning process.

So, the reality is this. When folks drive their own agenda without consideration of others perspective, it only causes more issues.

In conclusion, not everyone will get the vaccine and mandating it will cause a serious social uproar here in the states.

So the question for you is this. Will you love them? If you say yes, then loving them means wishing them the best and helping them by giving them things that are valuable.

One thing we can give them is information that can save their life or reduce their suffering and by that I mean we teach them about early treatment and when they should go in, and why they should go in.

What you don’t seem to consider is many people have gotten Covid and it wasn’t much more than a head cold for them. They don’t feel they need the vaccine. But for that very small percentage where Covid turns into Covid Pneumonia, they need to be told what those symptoms look like and when to get in. Why? Because by the time they get Covid Pnemonia, it’s too late for the vaccine. And if all anyone is pushing is getting the vaccination, then they are withholding critical information that is causing needless suffering, death and clogging our healthcare system.