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Cross or Stake

Free said:
What prophecy?
Click to expand...
Three witnesses, Psalms, Isaiah, and Zechariah.

Psalms 22:16. Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.

Isaiah 53:5. But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

Zechariah 12:10. "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced,



Sin hanged on a pole.

Numbers 21:8
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.”

Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
 
Christ hanged on a pole.
A cross is a pagan symbol.

Deuteronomy 21:23
you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.

1 Corinthians 1:23. NIV
23 but we preach Christ (crucified / staked out a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised up Yahshua, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 10:39
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Stake

Stauroo
stauroó: to stake out.

Original Word: σταυρόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: stauroó
Phonetic Spelling: (stow-ro'-o)
Definition: To fix to a stake; fig: To destroy, or mortify.

Stauros
stauros: an upright stake.

Original Word: σταυρός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: stauros
Phonetic Spelling: (stow-ros')
Definition: a stake.

 
CherubRam said:
Christ was (staked out) on a post.
Click to expand...




What Was the Shape of Jesus’ CrossImage Credit: Alem Sánchez from Pexels
Recently, after speaking at large conference, I was approached by a man who asked a question about the shape of crucifixion cross of Jesus. He’d been approached by Jehovah’s Witnesses who challenged the traditional shape of the cross. They argued the Greek word for “cross” (stauros) simply meant an “upright pole”, “upright stake” or “torture stake”. His Jehovah’s Witness visitors claimed Jesus was actually nailed to a straight stake with a single spike through his hands and another through his feet. In my experience with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I’ve also heard them argue the traditional Christian shape of the cross was borrowed from pagan sources and, as a result, it is un-Christian to acknowledge the traditional cross shape in church architecture, worship or adornment. While the Greek words used for the cross in the New Testament are not specific about its shape (“stauros” = stake / pole and “xulon” = timber / tree), there are several evidential clues offered in the scripture to help us understand the true shape of Jesus’ cross.

Before we look at the evidence related to the cross, we need to examine the many ways Roman executed criminals on wooden structures of one kind or another throughout history. Josephus, when writing about the siege of Jerusalem ion 70AD, acknowledged the fact Roman soldiers used a variety of methods and stake shapes to execute their prisoners:

“(The Jews caught outside the walls of Jerusalem) were first whipped, and then tormented with all sorts of tortures, before they died, and were then crucified before the wall of the city … the soldiers, out of the wrath and hatred they bore the Jews, nailed those they caught, one after one way, and another after another, to the crosses, by way of jest” (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, 5.11.1).

In addition, the first-century Roman philosopher, Seneca the Younger, described crucifixions in a variety of ways:

“I see before me crosses not all alike, but differently made by different peoples: some hang a man head downwards, some force a stick upwards through his groin, some stretch out his arms on a forked gibbet” (Seneca the Younger, “To Marcia on Consolation”, in Moral Essays, 6.20).

The Romans typically employed one of four shapes:

I – Crux Simplex
Sometimes they used a single upright stake or post and either nailed or tied their victim (in some cases this may have simply been to the trunk of a tree). With this shape of wood, the victim’s hands could be tied or nailed quite simply with a single piece of rope or a single nail, as many Jehovah’s Witnesses suggest.

T – Crux Commissa
Sometimes the Roman soldiers used a Crux Commissa (“connected cross”). This is also referred to as “St. Anthony’s Cross” or the “Tau Cross” (after the Greek letter “Tau” it resembles). This structure was constructed from a horizontal beam connected at the top of the vertical stake, forming a “T” shape. Victims were nailed to the T with arms outstretched on either side of the horizontal beam. Their feet were either nailed together or separately to the bottom of the vertical post.

+ – Crux Immissa
Similar to the Crux Commissa, this third shape is the traditional form Christians observe for the cross (“Immissa” means “inserted”). This cross was constructed from a vertical stake with a horizontal cross beam (called a “patibulum”) inserted across the upper portion, leaving a “tip” extending above the patibulum. Sometimes this tip was little more than a small extension, resulting in a structure still resembling a “T” more than a “+”. Victims were nailed to the structure with arms outstretched on either side of the patibulum. Their feet were either nailed together or separately to the bottom of the vertical post.

X – Crux Decussata
This “X” shaped cross (also known as “St. Andrew’s Cross”) borrowed its name from the Roman numeral ten (“decussis”). Two wooden planks were fastened together in an X configuration and the victim’s were nailed to the cross with arms outstretched on top ends of the X. Their feet were either nailed or tied separately to the bottom ends of the X.

For further info-read-

coldcasechristianity.com

What Was the Shape of Jesus’ Cross? | Cold Case Christianity

While the Greek words used for the cross are not specific about its shape, there are evidential clues to help us understand the true shape of Jesus’ cross.
coldcasechristianity.com coldcasechristianity.com
 
Johann!@# said:
What Was the Shape of Jesus’ CrossImage Credit: Alem Sánchez from Pexels
Recently, after speaking at large conference, I was approached by a man who asked a question about the shape of crucifixion cross of Jesus. He’d been approached by Jehovah’s Witnesses who challenged the traditional shape of the cross. They argued the Greek word for “cross” (stauros) simply meant an “upright pole”, “upright stake” or “torture stake”. His Jehovah’s Witness visitors claimed Jesus was actually nailed to a straight stake with a single spike through his hands and another through his feet. In my experience with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I’ve also heard them argue the traditional Christian shape of the cross was borrowed from pagan sources and, as a result, it is un-Christian to acknowledge the traditional cross shape in church architecture, worship or adornment. While the Greek words used for the cross in the New Testament are not specific about its shape (“stauros” = stake / pole and “xulon” = timber / tree), there are several evidential clues offered in the scripture to help us understand the true shape of Jesus’ cross.

Before we look at the evidence related to the cross, we need to examine the many ways Roman executed criminals on wooden structures of one kind or another throughout history. Josephus, when writing about the siege of Jerusalem ion 70AD, acknowledged the fact Roman soldiers used a variety of methods and stake shapes to execute their prisoners:

“(The Jews caught outside the walls of Jerusalem) were first whipped, and then tormented with all sorts of tortures, before they died, and were then crucified before the wall of the city … the soldiers, out of the wrath and hatred they bore the Jews, nailed those they caught, one after one way, and another after another, to the crosses, by way of jest” (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, 5.11.1).

In addition, the first-century Roman philosopher, Seneca the Younger, described crucifixions in a variety of ways:

“I see before me crosses not all alike, but differently made by different peoples: some hang a man head downwards, some force a stick upwards through his groin, some stretch out his arms on a forked gibbet” (Seneca the Younger, “To Marcia on Consolation”, in Moral Essays, 6.20).

The Romans typically employed one of four shapes:

I – Crux Simplex
Sometimes they used a single upright stake or post and either nailed or tied their victim (in some cases this may have simply been to the trunk of a tree). With this shape of wood, the victim’s hands could be tied or nailed quite simply with a single piece of rope or a single nail, as many Jehovah’s Witnesses suggest.

T – Crux Commissa
Sometimes the Roman soldiers used a Crux Commissa (“connected cross”). This is also referred to as “St. Anthony’s Cross” or the “Tau Cross” (after the Greek letter “Tau” it resembles). This structure was constructed from a horizontal beam connected at the top of the vertical stake, forming a “T” shape. Victims were nailed to the T with arms outstretched on either side of the horizontal beam. Their feet were either nailed together or separately to the bottom of the vertical post.

+ – Crux Immissa
Similar to the Crux Commissa, this third shape is the traditional form Christians observe for the cross (“Immissa” means “inserted”). This cross was constructed from a vertical stake with a horizontal cross beam (called a “patibulum”) inserted across the upper portion, leaving a “tip” extending above the patibulum. Sometimes this tip was little more than a small extension, resulting in a structure still resembling a “T” more than a “+”. Victims were nailed to the structure with arms outstretched on either side of the patibulum. Their feet were either nailed together or separately to the bottom of the vertical post.

X – Crux Decussata
This “X” shaped cross (also known as “St. Andrew’s Cross”) borrowed its name from the Roman numeral ten (“decussis”). Two wooden planks were fastened together in an X configuration and the victim’s were nailed to the cross with arms outstretched on top ends of the X. Their feet were either nailed or tied separately to the bottom ends of the X.

For further info-read-

coldcasechristianity.com

What Was the Shape of Jesus’ Cross? | Cold Case Christianity

While the Greek words used for the cross are not specific about its shape, there are evidential clues to help us understand the true shape of Jesus’ cross.
coldcasechristianity.com coldcasechristianity.com
Click to expand...
Good work.

If Christ died on a cross, then he did not fulfill being sin hanged on a pole.
 
CherubRam said:
If Christ died on a cross, then he did not fulfill being sin hanged on a pole.
Click to expand...
You haven't read the post.


For this reason, Kittel’s Theological Dictionary defines “stauros” in the following way:

“In shape we find three basic forms. The cross was a vertical, pointed stake… or it consisted of an upright with a cross-beam above it… or it consisted of two intersecting beams of equal length…” (Gerhard Kittel, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament: Volume 7, 1971, p. 572).

In order to know precisely which shape of wood was used to crucify Jesus, we need to look at the cumulative case from other evidences.

The Descriptions of Ancient Non-Biblical Sources:
A number of ancient non-Biblical sources eliminate at least one form of the cross (“Crux Simplex”) and make another form (“Crux Decussata”) unlikely. Let’s take a look at them in order of antiquity:

Dionysius of Halicarnassus (60BC to sometime after 7BC)
A Greek historian and teacher of rhetoric who lived at the time of the birth of Jesus, offers the following description of how the condemned were led to execution on what appears to be a “Crux Commissa,” or “Crux Immissa”:

“A Roman citizen of no obscure station, having ordered one of his slaves to be put to death, delivered him to his fellow-slaves to be led away, and in order that his punishment might be witnessed by all, directed them to drag him through the Forum and every other conspicuous part of the city as they whipped him, and that he should go ahead of the procession which the Romans were at that time conducting in honour of the god. The men ordered to lead the slave to his punishment, having stretched out both his arms and fastened them to a piece of wood which extended across his breast and shoulders as far as his wrists, followed him, tearing his naked body with whips.” (Roman Antiquities, VII, 69:1-2)

Dionysius used the word “xulon” for the horizontal “patibulum”.

The Epistle of Barnabas (90-135AD)
This pseudepigraphic letter, used by many Christians in the early Church, described the shape of the cross as it was understood very early in history:

“For the scripture saith; And Abraham circumcised of his household eighteen males and three hundred. What then was the knowledge given unto him? Understand ye that He saith the eighteen first, and then after an interval three hundred In the eighteen ‘I’ stands for ten, ‘H’ for eight. Here thou hast JESUS (IHSOYS). And because the cross in the ‘T’ was to have grace, He saith also three hundred. So He revealeth Jesus in the two letters, and in the remaining one the cross.” (Barnabas 9:7)

The author, referring to the story of Abraham in the Old Testament, analogized the cross of Jesus to the letter “T” (which had the numeric value of 300). For this writer, the cross of Jesus had a cross beam like the “Crux Commissa,” or “Crux Immissa”. In addition, the author of the Epistle of Barnabas referenced Exodus 17:11-12 and wrote:

“And He saith again in Moses, when war was waged against Israel by men of another nation, and that He might remind them when the war was waged against them that for their sins they were delivered unto death; the Spirit saith to the heart of Moses, *that he should make a type of the cross and of Him that was to suffer, that unless, saith He, they shall set their hope on Him, war shall be waged against them for ever. Moses therefore pileth arms one upon another in the midst of the encounter, and standing on higher ground than any he stretched out his hands, and so Israel was again victorious. Then, whenever he lowered them, they were slain with the sword.” (Barnabas 12:2)

In this passage, the author again analogized the cross of Jesus with a passage from the Old Testament (this time from the life of Moses), interpreting the shape of Jesus’ cross as requiring “he stretched out his hands”. This would be the case in either the “Crux Commissa,” “Crux Immissa,” or “Crux Decussata”.

Odes of Solomon (1st to 3rd Centuries)
These odes, generally considered to be of Christian origin, were written by several authors over the first three centuries. In Ode 27, the author wrote:

“I extended my hands and hallowed my Lord, For the expansion of my hands is His sign, And my extension is the upright cross.” (Odes of Solomon 27.1-2)

The author refers to a version of the cross in which the victim’s hands would once again be outstretched as with the “Crux Commissa” or “Crux Immissa”.

Justin Martyr (100–165AD)
This early Christian Case Maker expressly described the cross of Jesus as being constructed from two beams:

“That lamb which was commanded to be wholly roasted was a symbol of the suffering of the cross which Christ would undergo. For the lamb, which is roasted, is roasted and dressed up in the form of the cross. For one spit is transfixed right through from the lower parts up to the head, and one across the back, to which are attached the legs of the lamb.” (Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter XL)

This description of the cross with two beams is far more similar to the “Crux Immissa” than any other form. Justin Martyr wrote several other passages describing the cross of Jesus in a similar way, analogizing it to a sail mast and staysail or describing the position of Jesus on the cross with outstretched hands.

Artemidorus Daldianus / Ephesius (2nd Century)
Artemidorus was a non-Christian, professional diviner from the city of Ephesus. He wrote a five-volume Greek work called Oneirocritica (“The Interpretation of Dreams”) in which he described crucifixions of criminals:

“Since he is a criminal, he will be crucified in his height and in the extension of his hands” (Oneirocritica 1:76)

According to Artemidorus, criminals during this period of time were executed by Romans on a cross as wide as it was tall. This could once again refer to either the “Crux Commissa,” “Crux Immissa,” or “Crux Decussata”.

Lucian (125-180AD)
This early Greek rhetorician wrote a number of artistic, satirical and cynical pieces surviving to this day. In one of them, entitled Trial in the Court of Vowels, he wrote the following:

“Such are his verbal offences against man; his offences in deed remain. Men weep, and bewail their lot, and curse Cadmus with many curses for introducing Tau into the family of letters; they say it was his body that tyrants took for a model, his shape that they imitated, when they set up the erections on which men are crucified” (Trial in the Court of Vowels, 12.4-13)

Once again, an ancient author analogizes the cross to the letter “T”, as would be the case if the structure was a “Crux Commissa” or “Crux Immissa”.

Given these ancient non-Biblical sources of information, the “Crux Simplex” is repeatedly eliminated by way of description. In addition, the “Crux Decussata” is typically eliminated based on the references to specific “T” shapes. But if “Crux Commissa” or “Crux Immissa” are still in the running, which of the two is the more reasonable inference? It’s time to examine the very best source of information we have about the cross of Jesus: the Biblical record.
 
Last edited:
CherubRam said:
Three witnesses, Psalms, Isaiah, and Zechariah.

Psalms 22:16. Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.

Isaiah 53:5. But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

Zechariah 12:10. "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced,
Click to expand...
Yes, but what do these have to do with whether it was a pole or a cross?

CherubRam said:
Sin hanged on a pole.

Numbers 21:8
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.”

Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
Click to expand...
How are these a prophecy of Christ dying on a pole rather than a cross?

CherubRam said:
Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with whether Jesus died on a pole or on a cross?
 
CherubRam said:
1694369861740-png.595
Click to expand...
Two points:

1. You're probably a JW since they are the only people that believe Jesus was hanged on a pole.
Why this is important I still don't understand.

2. The above image is not of a man that is going to be killed, but of a man that is going to be flayed by Apollo. This is Hellinistic. Apollo was a fake God BTW. What are we discussing here anyway?

You should stick to the bible, a real bible and not the New World Translation,
and if you care to become a Christian, it would be to your advantage.
Leave the cult behind and join the rest of us.



{{Information Louvre |artist=Unknown |description= {{en|Marsyas hanging on the tree as he is going to be flayed by Apollo. Marble, Roman copy of the 1st-2nd century after a Hellenistic original. Found in Rome, Italy.}} {{fr|Marsyas suspendu à un pin,
source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Detail_Marsyas_hanging_Louvre_Ma542.jpg
 
Johann!@# said:
You haven't read the post.


For this reason, Kittel’s Theological Dictionary defines “stauros” in the following way:

“In shape we find three basic forms. The cross was a vertical, pointed stake… or it consisted of an upright with a cross-beam above it… or it consisted of two intersecting beams of equal length…” (Gerhard Kittel, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament: Volume 7, 1971, p. 572).

In order to know precisely which shape of wood was used to crucify Jesus, we need to look at the cumulative case from other evidences.

The Descriptions of Ancient Non-Biblical Sources:
A number of ancient non-Biblical sources eliminate at least one form of the cross (“Crux Simplex”) and make another form (“Crux Decussata”) unlikely. Let’s take a look at them in order of antiquity:

Dionysius of Halicarnassus (60BC to sometime after 7BC)
A Greek historian and teacher of rhetoric who lived at the time of the birth of Jesus, offers the following description of how the condemned were led to execution on what appears to be a “Crux Commissa,” or “Crux Immissa”:

“A Roman citizen of no obscure station, having ordered one of his slaves to be put to death, delivered him to his fellow-slaves to be led away, and in order that his punishment might be witnessed by all, directed them to drag him through the Forum and every other conspicuous part of the city as they whipped him, and that he should go ahead of the procession which the Romans were at that time conducting in honour of the god. The men ordered to lead the slave to his punishment, having stretched out both his arms and fastened them to a piece of wood which extended across his breast and shoulders as far as his wrists, followed him, tearing his naked body with whips.” (Roman Antiquities, VII, 69:1-2)

Dionysius used the word “xulon” for the horizontal “patibulum”.

The Epistle of Barnabas (90-135AD)
This pseudepigraphic letter, used by many Christians in the early Church, described the shape of the cross as it was understood very early in history:

“For the scripture saith; And Abraham circumcised of his household eighteen males and three hundred. What then was the knowledge given unto him? Understand ye that He saith the eighteen first, and then after an interval three hundred In the eighteen ‘I’ stands for ten, ‘H’ for eight. Here thou hast JESUS (IHSOYS). And because the cross in the ‘T’ was to have grace, He saith also three hundred. So He revealeth Jesus in the two letters, and in the remaining one the cross.” (Barnabas 9:7)

The author, referring to the story of Abraham in the Old Testament, analogized the cross of Jesus to the letter “T” (which had the numeric value of 300). For this writer, the cross of Jesus had a cross beam like the “Crux Commissa,” or “Crux Immissa”. In addition, the author of the Epistle of Barnabas referenced Exodus 17:11-12 and wrote:

“And He saith again in Moses, when war was waged against Israel by men of another nation, and that He might remind them when the war was waged against them that for their sins they were delivered unto death; the Spirit saith to the heart of Moses, *that he should make a type of the cross and of Him that was to suffer, that unless, saith He, they shall set their hope on Him, war shall be waged against them for ever. Moses therefore pileth arms one upon another in the midst of the encounter, and standing on higher ground than any he stretched out his hands, and so Israel was again victorious. Then, whenever he lowered them, they were slain with the sword.” (Barnabas 12:2)

In this passage, the author again analogized the cross of Jesus with a passage from the Old Testament (this time from the life of Moses), interpreting the shape of Jesus’ cross as requiring “he stretched out his hands”. This would be the case in either the “Crux Commissa,” “Crux Immissa,” or “Crux Decussata”.

Odes of Solomon (1st to 3rd Centuries)
These odes, generally considered to be of Christian origin, were written by several authors over the first three centuries. In Ode 27, the author wrote:

“I extended my hands and hallowed my Lord, For the expansion of my hands is His sign, And my extension is the upright cross.” (Odes of Solomon 27.1-2)

The author refers to a version of the cross in which the victim’s hands would once again be outstretched as with the “Crux Commissa” or “Crux Immissa”.

Justin Martyr (100–165AD)
This early Christian Case Maker expressly described the cross of Jesus as being constructed from two beams:

“That lamb which was commanded to be wholly roasted was a symbol of the suffering of the cross which Christ would undergo. For the lamb, which is roasted, is roasted and dressed up in the form of the cross. For one spit is transfixed right through from the lower parts up to the head, and one across the back, to which are attached the legs of the lamb.” (Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter XL)

This description of the cross with two beams is far more similar to the “Crux Immissa” than any other form. Justin Martyr wrote several other passages describing the cross of Jesus in a similar way, analogizing it to a sail mast and staysail or describing the position of Jesus on the cross with outstretched hands.

Artemidorus Daldianus / Ephesius (2nd Century)
Artemidorus was a non-Christian, professional diviner from the city of Ephesus. He wrote a five-volume Greek work called Oneirocritica (“The Interpretation of Dreams”) in which he described crucifixions of criminals:

“Since he is a criminal, he will be crucified in his height and in the extension of his hands” (Oneirocritica 1:76)

According to Artemidorus, criminals during this period of time were executed by Romans on a cross as wide as it was tall. This could once again refer to either the “Crux Commissa,” “Crux Immissa,” or “Crux Decussata”.

Lucian (125-180AD)
This early Greek rhetorician wrote a number of artistic, satirical and cynical pieces surviving to this day. In one of them, entitled Trial in the Court of Vowels, he wrote the following:

“Such are his verbal offences against man; his offences in deed remain. Men weep, and bewail their lot, and curse Cadmus with many curses for introducing Tau into the family of letters; they say it was his body that tyrants took for a model, his shape that they imitated, when they set up the erections on which men are crucified” (Trial in the Court of Vowels, 12.4-13)

Once again, an ancient author analogizes the cross to the letter “T”, as would be the case if the structure was a “Crux Commissa” or “Crux Immissa”.

Given these ancient non-Biblical sources of information, the “Crux Simplex” is repeatedly eliminated by way of description. In addition, the “Crux Decussata” is typically eliminated based on the references to specific “T” shapes. But if “Crux Commissa” or “Crux Immissa” are still in the running, which of the two is the more reasonable inference? It’s time to examine the very best source of information we have about the cross of Jesus: the Biblical record.
Click to expand...
I read your post. I do not trust Pagans, Gnostic, Catholics, or Mystics for the truth.
 
wondering said:
Two points:

1. You're probably a JW since they are the only people that believe Jesus was hanged on a pole.
Why this is important I still don't understand.

2. The above image is not of a man that is going to be killed, but of a man that is going to be flayed by Apollo. This is Hellinistic. Apollo was a fake God BTW. What are we discussing here anyway?

You should stick to the bible, a real bible and not the New World Translation,
and if you care to become a Christian, it would be to your advantage.
Leave the cult behind and join the rest of us.



{{Information Louvre |artist=Unknown |description= {{en|Marsyas hanging on the tree as he is going to be flayed by Apollo. Marble, Roman copy of the 1st-2nd century after a Hellenistic original. Found in Rome, Italy.}} {{fr|Marsyas suspendu à un pin,
source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Detail_Marsyas_hanging_Louvre_Ma542.jpg
Click to expand...
How many times are you going to say I'm a JW? I am a Judaic Christian.
 
CherubRam said:
I read your post. I do not trust Pagans, Gnostic, Catholics, or Mystics for the truth.
Click to expand...
Now is your opportunity to promulgate the crucified and risen Messiah.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and This One crucified.

ου γαρ εκρινα του ειδεναι τι εν υμιν ει μη ιησουν χριστον και τουτον εσταυρωμενον

כי לא־אמרתי לדעת בתוככם דבר בלתי אם־ישוע המשיח והוא הנצלב׃
 
Pope Gregory and Paganism.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.
 
CherubRam said:
Pope Gregory and Paganism.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.
Click to expand...
Harmonized with Christianity.
 
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