Dancing in Church

[Webb]

You're right Hitch, "Its probabliy real close to the one that authorized choirs --- stuff like that", it just ain't there. Why argue about it if its not there. WHERE again, I ask, is the scripture?

 

[Hitch]

You're right Hitch, "Its probabliy real close to the one that authorized choirs --- stuff like that", it just ain't there. Why argue about it if its not there. WHERE again, I ask, is the scripture?

Where is the scripture prohibiting it ,he repeated.

 

[WIP]

I ran a quick search for the word "dance" in the NKJV and this came up from Luke 7:31-35. I don't fully understand the message here but does it have any bearing on this discussion?

And the Lord said, “To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, saying:

‘We played the flute for you,
And you did not dance;
We mourned to you,
And you did not weep.’

For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by all her children.â

 

[Webb]

Handy wants to know "How do you apply II Tim.3:16---to just New Testament passages?"

Handy, I don't. Our Bible is composed of two parts; two covenants, two testaments. We have the Old Covenant ( Old Testament ) and the New Covenant ( New Testament ) A covenant or testament ( today we often use the word "will" ) is a contract. The Hebrew letter teaches the same thing we do today about a will, or testament. If I have a will (covenant or testament) it becomes of effect only when I die. However, while living I can make a new will, (covenant or testament). Upon making the new the old is voided and the second will (covenant or testament) is that that becomes valid at my death. In making my 2nd will (covenant or testament) I can bring from the 1st will anything I want and include it in the 2nd. What I do not bring over and include in the 2nd will is not binding. So WHERE is the dancing in the new and better will of which Jesus Christ is the Testator? Dancing in the church is not there. Apply this to any question pertaining to the OT and the NT. Which testament, covenant do we live under today?

 

[Hitch]

So WHERE is the prohibition of dancing in the new and better will of which Jesus Christ is the Testator?


Its just as valid a question Webb.

 

[handy]

I have to agree with Hitch on this one...

We know that animal sacrifices are prohibited...they served their purpose under the old covenant and are not part of the new...we know this because the New Testament specifically tells us so.

We know we are no longer under the Law...we know this because the New Testament tells us so.

It's easy to determine when something is not to be carried over, when either Jesus or the Apostles tells us not to carry them over.

However, I would really like to see some solid biblical evidence for this idea that unless Jesus or the Apostles specifically mentioned something...then it's actually PROHIBITED for a Christian to do it.

That idea...that unless the New Testament specifically mentions something, the Church is actually prohibited from...it's not a matter of freedom, it's rank sin to partake of it...I'd like to see where Jesus or any of the Apostles promoted this point of view.

All over the New Testament I see exhortations and encouragements to use the Scriptures as our standard of what we should and shouldn't be doing...and the Scriptures that were being referred to is the Old Testament...

...so where does this idea come from that, as Christians, we are to essentially ignore and turn our backs on what the Holy Spirit gave us?

Honestly, I think the bottom issue is a very strong misunderstanding of just what the Covenant encompassed. The Covenant wasn't the totality of everything that God's people said and did prior to the cross.

 

[Webb]

In spite of what I wrote Hitch asks: "So WHERE is the prohibition of dancing in the new and better will of which Jesus is the Testator?"

 

[Webb]

Handy when the church came together they prayed, sang, scripture was read and exhorted on, they gave and yes, they partook of the Lord's supper. Can you find anything else? Dancing? Remember its God's "good pleasure" ( Phil.2:13 ) we should seek, not ours. Again, where is the scripture or principle which allows dancing in the worship of the NT church. Only one will do, just one.

 

[Hitch]

In spite of what I wrote Hitch asks: "So WHERE is the prohibition of dancing in the new and better will of which Jesus is the Testator?"

Well??

 

[handy]

Handy when the church came together they prayed, sang, scripture was read and exhorted on, they gave and yes, they partook of the Lord's supper. Can you find anything else? Dancing? Remember its God's "good pleasure" ( Phil.2:13 ) we should seek, not ours. Again, where is the scripture or principle which allows dancing in the worship of the NT church. Only one will do, just one.

Come on Webb...I've already laid out good reasons as to why your "rule" here doesn't really hold up...Jesus and the Apostles both used and exhorted us to use the Old Testament as validation for our actions and our beliefs.

Where are you getting this "rule" from? This rule that we need...absolutely must have at least one mention of something in the NT about dancing...or hymnals, or musical instruments...in order to have it in the Church....Where are you getting that from?

It's not a rule that is taught in the New Testament...or, if it is, I've never come across it.

Forget about asking for a "scripture" as to dancing in the Church...and explain instead where such a rule is found.

 

[Hitch]

Come on Webb...I've already laid out good reasons as to why your "rule" here doesn't really hold up...Jesus and the Apostles both used and exhorted us to use the Old Testament as validation for our actions and our beliefs.

Where are you getting this "rule" from? This rule that we need...absolutely must have at least one mention of something in the NT about dancing...or hymnals, or musical instruments...in order to have it in the Church....Where are you getting that from?

It's not a rule that is taught in the New Testament...or, if it is, I've never come across it.

Forget about asking for a "scripture" as to dancing in the Church...and explain instead where such a rule is found.

Maybe Webb will have better luck with this one.

If dancing is inappropriate for church there should be OT passages that contain this information, directly or indirectly. Which are they?


I wonder ,if both in a couple are good baptist tea-totallers , are they really married? The only wedding I see in the NT Jesus brought the wine, doesnt that mean that wine is required?

 

[Stormcrow]

Jesus Christ is the role model for us to follow and not David. Jesus Christ didn't dance and He was perfect and holy. Not once it is mentioned that He danced.

^{19}"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds." Matthew 11:19 (NASB)

Jesus drank and mingled with prostitutes and sinners. Would you rather have the youth of a church doing that???

So, Dancing is neither a worshiping way nor any form of praising if you follow Christ and dancing is absolutely unnecessary and God did not expect it from us.

Dancing is what you make of it. God sees the motives of those who dance, just as He sees the motives of those who raise their hands, kneel, bow their heads, and fall prostrate on the ground.

Any of the above can be done in a spirit of worship just as none of it can.

No one should be so quick to judge the motives or heart of another.

 

[Hitch]

Jesus drank and mingled with prostitutes and sinners. Would you rather have the youth of a church doing that???


PERF!

 

[Classik]

I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying church, and if dancing is one of those things then, hey, bring it on, but, like you said, some may take the "dance" too far and begin dancing like Shakira or Beyonce, and church is definitely not the place for that.

:toofunny

And when we do our youth convention we dance the way we want. Honestly, I don't condemn it. Let the critics not look at the hips - parents and the I-am-too-righteous are not needed. They are not invited.

 

[Classik]

Dancing in church is a lot like crossing oneself, raising one's hands, or bowing...something the Christian has full freedom to do, or not. However, Classik, there are some things about your view that could use some prayerful thought...

Think about what you've said here:

Trust the youth...OK, but remember the Scriptures teach us:
You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

In regards to those who choose not to dance, do they not have the same freedom to be still as you do to dance? Why should your brother or sister be called mean and boring if their spirit is more in tune with God in stillness.

You ask, "is there anything wrong with the youth (in particular) dancing in church - and in our own way?"

The answer is, perhaps there was...if some were dancing to the point that it became immodest. God loves our exuberance, but He also says this in regards to our worship services:

But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

In the Corinthian church, there were also exuberant people who were getting carried away...perhaps the issue was more speaking out, shouting out in tongues and prophesies, rather than dancing, but the principle is the same. Of this, think of what we are told:

Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature (and) Let all things be done for edification. (see 1 Corinthians 14)

What happens in corporate worship should be done for the edification of all. If the dancing was getting to the point that it wasn't edifying, but rather distracting and disturbing to those who are also there to worship God...then out of love for your brethren you should respectfully reign it in.

Tnx, Dora. But believe me, your kids won't like it
Just kidding

In regards to those who choose not to dance, do they not have the same freedom to be still as you do to dance? Why should your brother or sister be called mean and boring if their spirit is more in tune with God in stillness.

In my church, there are some who do not dance at all. It is their nature. We already know them. But there are others who don't like the progress of the youth (sorry for being harsh here). Once the youth take over the show... these people cease to dance. They look at us with distate in their eyes. What have we done wrong?

 

[Classik]

Do you really think God is seeing your great dance skills and He is happy about it? If you think so, then you haven't known God. God sees your heart - not your dance and musical skills. If your heart is away from Him and you play music, it is a sound that will be brought down to hades as in Isa 14:11. Miriam also danced and Moses did not and yet, when she spoke against Moses, she became leper.

Jesus Christ is the role model for us to follow and not David. Jesus Christ didn't dance and He was perfect and holy. Not once it is mentioned that He danced. If He hasn't taught any of his disciples to dance, who are you following? Jesus or David? So, Dancing is neither a worshiping way nor any form of praising if you follow Christ and dancing is absolutely unnecessary and God did not expect it from us.

We need a combination of dance skills and your heart.

 

[Webb]

Handy---"such a rule" is found in the Hebrew letter. Please read what it says about a covenant, a testament, a will. Its the same as a contract or testament we make today.

 

[Classik]

The Scriptures teach that dance is an acceptable form of worship of God:

“Hear, O LORD, and be gracious to me;
O LORD, be my helper.â€
You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
You have loosed my sackcloth and girded me with gladness,
That my soul may sing praise to You and not be silent.
O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever. Psalms 30:10-12

Praise the LORD!
Sing to the LORD a new song,
And His praise in the congregation of the godly ones.
Let Israel be glad in his Maker;
Let the sons of Zion rejoice in their King.
Let them praise His name with dancing;
Let them sing praises to Him with timbrel and lyre.
For the LORD takes pleasure in His people;
He will beautify the afflicted ones with salvation. Psalms 149:1-4

Praise the LORD!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty expanse.
Praise Him for His mighty deeds;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-16398"></sup> Praise Him with trumpet sound;
Praise Him with harp and lyre.
Praise Him with timbrel and dancing;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and pipe.
Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with resounding cymbals.
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
Praise the LORD! Psalm 150


God even promised that He would restore the virgins of Israel that they could once more go forth in dancing:


Thus says the LORD,
“The people who survived the sword
Found grace in the wilderness—
Israel, when it went to find its rest.â€
The LORD appeared to him from afar, saying,
“I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.
“Again I will build you and you will be rebuilt,
O virgin of Israel!
Again you will take up your tambourines,
And go forth to the dances of the merrymakers. Jeremiah 31:2-4


As for me, I'm not all that comfortable in "rock-n-roll" churches myself. I tend towards very traditional type of worship services. I'm not a dancer and the times I've moved in dance during worship can be counted on one hand, with a few digits left over.



I look at 1 Corinthians 14 and look at how Paul described the Corinthians services...I wouldn't feel all that comfortable there either...but obviously the Spirit of God was working within that church...warts and all.


Classik, I don't think that you're following a different spirit...(simply disagreeing with you Felix...not the first time, I know! ;)) but I do think that you and your fellow exuberant worshipers would do well to take the correction of your elders and be sure to keep all things decent and orderly.

Thanks
I feel comfortable with your responses

Okay now!
We respect our elders. We have some of our elders who love our style of music. I'm not saying we are divided.

One of our pastors is appproaching 60. He can compete with Usher:D

 

[Classik]

I will say this and stand by it: any man who says (whether in or out of the church) that he can take a woman in dance and sway etc. and not be affected wrongly by it is either a LIAR or a DEAD man!

I would say this depends on the heart of the individual.

Perhaps a perfect church is one where females sit at the LHS and males at the RHS

 

[Stormcrow]

Perhaps a perfect church is one where females sit at the LHS and males at the RHS

And keep their heads covered and mouths shut. :bigfrown