Daniel & Revelation Reveal The Antichrist

[herald]

1. It was to arise among the ten divisions of the Roman Empire. Dan 7:8.

2. It would destroy three of the ten kingdoms. Dan 7:8. The Roman power destroyed the Heruli in A.D. 493, the Vandals in A.D. 534, and defeated the Ostrogoths in A.D. 538. The other seven are, still, with us today - Germany, England, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Switzerland.

3. It would speak great words against the Most High. Dan 7:25;Rev 13:6. "The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God." - P.F.L. Ferraris, Ecclesiastical Dictionary, art. On The Pope.

4. It would wear out the saints. Dan 7:25;Rev 13:7. "That the Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind, will be questioned by no Protestant who has a competent knowledge of history..." - William Edward Hartpole Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, vol. 2 (London: Longmans, Green and Company, 1904. p. 32)

5. It would be guilty of blasphemy. Rev 13:6;Dan 7:25. The church claims that the Pope is God and has power to forgive sin. When Jesus made these claims, he was accused by the Jews of blasphemy. (The Church, also, claims Mary as Mediator, and the priests "Create God" in the eucharist, etc.)

6. It would attempt to change times and divine law. Dan 7:25. The Ten Commandments were written with the finger of God in stone, yet, the Catholic Church claims the authority to delete the 2nd (graven images) and split the last to come up with Ten. She also changed the fourth - changing the day of worship from the seventh day (instituted at Creation) to the first day of the week (at the Council of Laodicea, 364 A.D.) A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25. There is only one time in His Covenant - the Sabbath.

7. It would exercise power over all kindreds, tongues and nations. Rev 13:7. The nations of the world send ambassadors to this Roman church/state.

8. The Dragon would give his power, seat and great authority to this beast. Rev 13:2. The Caesars of the Roman Empire gave their power, seat and authority to the Bishop of Rome.

9. It was to continue in world domination for 1260 years. Rev 13:5;Dan 7:25. 42 months x 30 days to the Biblical month - 1260 days or years. Ezek 4:6. After defeating the Ostrogoths, she rose to power and reigned until 1798 A.D.

10. It would receive a mortal wound. Rev 13:3. On Feburary 10, 1798, Napoleon's general Berthier entered Rome and took Pope Pius V1 captive. Napoleon decreed that at the death of the Pope (August 1799), the Papacy would be discontinued. "Half Europe thought...that without the Pope, the Papacy was dead."

11. It would amaze the whole world, for it's deadly wound would be healed. Rev 13:3. In August, 1929, in a letter written by the Pope in Current History magazine, the Pope said, "...Efforts have been made to heal the wound." p. 847.

Fromt he very beginning of Mussolini's dictatorship, both the church and state determined to settle the Roman question. On February 11, 1929, a concordat was signed, restoring the place of the Papacy, and thus healing the wound. (The S.F. Chronicle newspaper printed an article, referring to this act as healing the wound.)

 

[parousia70]

What does any of that have to do with antichrist of scripture?

None of the verses you posted mention antichrist anywhere.

Indeed, antichrist is not taught about anywhere in Daniel or Revelation.

 

[Vic C.]

If we go straight from the Bible, only John mentions antichrist.

(1 John 2:18 KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

(1 John 2:22 KJV) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

(1 John 4:3 KJV) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

(2 John 1:7 KJV) For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[parousia70]

That is correct, but from my admittedly minimal exposure to this forum as a newbie here, going straight from the Bible doesn't seem to be the preferred method here.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by parousia70
That is correct, but from my admittedly minimal exposure to this forum as a newbie here, going straight from the Bible doesn't seem to be the preferred method here.

Speak for yourself. You haven’t posted one verse of Scripture yet, and all I post is Scripture. You want straight from the Bible? You got it! But put your money where your mouth is when the time comes. I do not consider opinionated monologue, the writings of Josephus, or the use of flashy exegetical gymnastics to force interpretations to be “straight from the Bible†- just so you know.

 

[Vic C.]

Os, no need to go postal on us. I really need for everyone posting here to do it with respect for another. If someone disrespects another, feel free to bring it to our attention via the Report feature.

I am the one who posted the four verses, the only four verses that mention antichrist. I have to work it out form there. Right now I'm feeling that is proper exegesis and that interjecting the idea of a singular antichrist into the mix is gymnastics. I also don't count out using extra biblical sources as wrong in some cases. The two books of Maccabees aren't in the Bible, but when one reads them, one will see that some of the verses quoted above, like Dan 7:25 were fulfilled by Antiochus.

It would speak great words against the Most High
It would wear out the saints
It would be guilty of blasphemy
It would attempt to change times and divine law

All done by Antiochus. I also don't deny some sort of second fulfillment, maybe in 70AD.

Herald's post above is basic Adventist teaching. Many of the Reformers, who were also historicists, believed much the same thing. It was my intention to see if we could work out how to fit antichrist into passages that never mention antichrist. Daniel ch. 9 is a prime example. I'm convinced Daniel 9 is addressing Messiah and that the bulk of ch. 9 points to Jesus, not antichrist. Because of this conviction, I have been forced to look at much prophetic scripture in a whole new light.

So, can we address the OP?

Thanks.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Vic C
Os, no need to go postal on us. I really need for everyone posting here to do it with respect for another. If someone disrespects another, feel free to bring it to our attention via the Report feature.
I am the one who posted the four verses, the only four verses that mention antichrist.

No postal here Vic. I was only referring to the comment I quoted; nothing else. I'll always quote the post I'm replying to. Yours had nothing to do with it. Also, like I mentioned, my post had nothing to do with 1 & 2 John. I quoted Scripture referring to something different.

 

[herald]

Can you refute it with Scripture? If not, you have no argument.

You have been warned...the Pre and Post Reformers studied Daniel and Revelation and pointed to the office of the Papacy as The Antichrist and the Son of Perdition. These included Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, John Wyclif, William Tyndale, King James, John Knox, Philipp Melanchthon, and Huldreich Zwingli. Some of them were roasted at the stake for such comments.

When I became a Christian forty years ago, this was common knowledge.

 

[parousia70]

Revelation and Daniel do not contain ANY teaching on the Biblical antichrist. ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ZILCH, GOOSE EGG, NUTIN'.

To insist they do, one must cross refrence the cited passages in those books with the Bibles ACTUAL teaching on antichrist, contained only in the 4 verses of 1 & 2 John cited above.

So far I have not seen anyone do that here or anywhere.

 

[herald]

A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25. There is, only, one time in His Covenant - the Sabbath instituted at the Creation of the world.

Rome says, "Of course the Catholic church claims the change was her act...and the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H. F. Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the "change" of the Sabbath.

Again Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the mark of our authority to overrule God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, p. 802.

"Sunday is our mark of authority...The Church is above the Bible and this transference of Sabbath obeservance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

In the Ecclesiastical (Roman Catholic) dicitonary by Lucius Ferraris, entitled Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Vol. V1, pgs. 438,442 article "Pope." The Catholic Encyclopedia , 1913 edition, Vol. V1, p. 48 speaks of this book as "a veritable encyclopedia of religious knowledge," and a "precious mine of information."

"The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God.

"The Pope is of such lofty and supreme dignity that, properly speaking, he has not been established in any rank of dignity, but rather has been placed upon the very summit of all ranks and dignities."

"He is likewise the divine monarch and supreme emperor and king of kings."

"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown as king of heaven, and of earth and of the lower regions."

"So that if it were possible that the angels might err in the faith, or might think contrary to the faith, they could be excommunicated by the Pope.

"The Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having plenitude of power, to whom has been entrusted by the omnipotent God direction not only of the earthly, but also of the heavenly kingdom."

"The Pope can modify divine law since his power is not of man but of God."

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." - Pope Leo X111, in an Encyclical letter, June 20,1894.

"For thou art another God on earth." - History of the Councils, vol. X1V, p. 109.

"We define that the Holy apostolic see (The Vatican) and the Roman Pontiff hold the primacy over the whole world." - A Decree of the Council of Trent, quoted in Phillippe Labbe and Gabriel Cossart, The Most Holy Councils, Vol. 13, col.1167.

"Take thou the tiara adorned with a triple crown, and know that thou art the Father of princes and of kings, and art the Governor of the world." - Coronation Service of the Pontiffs.

"The Pope is the supreme judge...He is the vicegerent of Christ, who is not only priest forever, but also king of kings and lord of lords." - Vatican Council, p. 220.

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." - The Catholic National, July 1895.

During the Vatican Council of 1870, on January 9, it was proclaimed: "The Pope is Christ in office, Christ in jurisdiction and power...We bow down before thy voice, O Pius, as before the voice of Christ, the God of truth; in clinging to thee, we cling to Christ."

"If a man refuse to hear the (Roman Catholic) Church, let him be considered - so the Lord commands - as a heathen and a publican." - Pope Pius X11, in His encyclical letter, The Mystical Body of Christ, June 29,1943.

"Thus the priest may, in a certain manner, be called THE CREATOR OF HIS CREATOR, since by saying the words of the consecration, HE CREATES as it were, JESUS in the sacrament, by giving Him a sacramental existence, and produces Him as a VICTIM to the eternal Father. As in creating the world, it was sufficient for God to have said, let it be made and it was created. He spake and they were made, so it is sufficient for the priest to say, 'Hoc est corpus meum, and behold the bread is no longer the brea, but the body of Jesus Christ. 'The power of the priest, says St. Bernadine of Sienna, 'is the power of the divine person; FOR THE TRANSUBSTANTIATION OF THE BREAD REQUIRES AS MUCH POWER AS THE CREATION OF THE WORLD.'

Jesus was crucified "once for all,"(Heb 7:27;9:28) and does not need to be offered over and over again as a "victim" in the mass.

"Antichrist" also means, "False Christ."

 

[parousia70]

A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25. There is, only, one time in His Covenant - the Sabbath instituted at the Creation of the world.

Dan 7:25 makes no mention of "antichrist"

"Antichrist" also means, "False Christ."

Scripture teaches no such meaning of "antichrist".

 

[herald]

"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and the dividing of time." Dan 7:25.

The Apostle Paul wrote, "Now this I say that everyone of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas (Peter); and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor 1:12,13.

The Lord calls the denominational system, "The Mother of harlots." Rev 17. She has replaced much of the Word of God for her traditions. She has lost her way and departed from the Word of God.

"And I heard another Voice from heaven saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." (lawlessness) Rev 18:4,5.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say unto Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I KNOW HIM and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him: but whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we know we that we are in HIm." 1 John 2:3-5.

Antichrist will arise from within the apostate church, just as Judas arose from within the disciples.

"Little children, it is the last time: and ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now there are many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us...Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:18-22.

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is the spirit of Antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now is already in the world." 1 John 4:22.

"For many deceivers are entered into this world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." 2 John 7.

Antichrist will reign over the world. The first Beast is the Papacy. Rev 13:1 The last Beast is Protestant America. Rev 13:11. Just as President Reagan worked with the Pope to bring down communism in eastern Europe, so that will happen again.

The USA is "The greatest Superpower the world has ever known."

Jesus said, "My sheep hear My Voice, and I KNOW THEM, and they follow Me." John 10:27. The Lord has sheep in both the Catholic and the Protestant churches, and He is calling them out of the system.

How do we "Come out?" By imitating the Bereans: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word and not hearers, only, DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Can you refute it with Scripture? If not, you have no argument.

You have been warned...the Pre and Post Reformers studied Daniel and Revelation and pointed to the office of the Papacy as The Antichrist and the Son of Perdition. These included Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, John Wyclif, William Tyndale, King James, John Knox, Philipp Melanchthon, and Huldreich Zwingli. Some of them were roasted at the stake for such comments.

When I became a Christian forty years ago, this was common knowledge.

Vic already refuted it with scripture.
If you paid any attention ,you would realize an anti christ is one who denies Christ.
Catholics dont deny the Son.Matter of fact,catholics claim Christ has come in the flesh which is the opposit of antichrist.

 

[parousia70]

If you paid any attention ,you would realize an anti christ is one who denies Christ.
Catholics dont deny the Son.Matter of fact,catholics claim Christ has come in the flesh which is the opposit of antichrist.

Absolutely correct

 

[parousia70]

"Little children, it is the last time: and ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now there are many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us...Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:18-22.

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is the spirit of Antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now is already in the world." 1 John 4:22.

You do realize that the above 2 passages are entirely paralell don't you?
And you do realize that both passages testify to the fact that antichrist is not a 21st century Singular World Ruler but a First century spirit affecting many in the church and has absolutely ZERO biblical connection to Paul's man of Sin and John's Beast don't you?

Antichrist will reign over the world.

You do realize that no such thing is taught in scripture don't you?

 

[Vic C.]

I don't have the time to look for the verses, but I know they exist. Satan is already the ruler, 'god' of this world. However, Jesus says His kingdom is not of this world. There will be a time when Christ's Kingdom replaces the corrupt, current kingdom.

 

[parousia70]

Satan is already the ruler, 'god' of this world .

Incorrect.
Jesus rules the world

This world is not under the power of the "price of darkness" for he is powerless. This world is under the power of Jesus Christ. Satan does NOT rule the earth today, Jesus Christ does.
Satan's head has been crushed. He is a defeated foe.

Satan was bound/judged/cast out by Christ's earthly ministry, reversing satan's dominion over the People of God, granting power over all darkness to the saints, and immediately enabling the gospel to spread to all nations.
(John 12:31 and Matt 12:28-29, Heb 2:14-15 and 1 John 3:8).

Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. ALL power and dominion are His. There is nothing that is not already under his rule.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER is given unto me in heaven AND IN EARTH.

Revelation 1:5
...Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, AND THE PRINCE OF THE KINGS OF THE EARTH.

Satan truly is defeated (Jn 12:31; Col 1:15; Heb 2:14-15; 1 Jn 3:8; 1 Jn 5:4) and Jesus truly is now the God of this world (Matt 28:18; Eph 1:20-23; Rev 1:5; 1 Pet 3:22). Christ and the Church are now ruling over all darkness so that not even the gates of hell can prevail against the Church's advances (Matt 16:18-19)

 

[Matthew24:34]

That is correct, but from my admittedly minimal exposure to this forum as a newbie here, going straight from the Bible doesn't seem to be the preferred method here.

:rolling parousia70, you are a God-send and a breath of fresh air on this forum!

Matthew24:34

 

[parousia70]

:rolling parousia70, you are a God-send and a breath of fresh air on this forum!

Matthew24:34

Shucks Matthew, me thinks you are a bit to generous with your accolades, but Thanks!

 

[Vic C.]

Incorrect.
Jesus rules the world

From your perspective, I guess. But one look around and a handful of verses I could post stating otherwise, I'd have to disagree. But since you say this site doesn't value the use of Biblical passages, I won't bother. But I know they're there. ;)

You believe Jesus passed judgment and already established His Kingdom on earth, most of us just do not see it that way and view this one particular part the the preterist's view in err.

Besides, after rereading your post, you are talking in terms of the ekklesia's status, not the world's. I'm more concerned for the souls who aren't saved. They are still under Satan's rule. If you are also proposing some sort of UR over all the earth, then we have a different and more serious issue.

Peace,
Vic