Hi Wayseer,
I have been following the exchange between Mitspa and yourself and would like to interject something I think both of you are getting at but are approaching from two different angles.
That is not the point that I am challenging. What I am challenging is your claim that David was righteous because of faith. We are not righteous because of anything we have done - even our faith is contaminated. We are righteous because we have accepted God's grace in that while we yet sinners he had mercy upon us.
David was just as screwed us as the rest of us. But even in our screwed up state we and made righteous by God - but not by anything we might have done.
To suggest that anything we might do has a bearing on our righteousness is spiritual arrogance.
Your poem is beautiful and is better theology than your argument.
You are right that we are not righteous because of anything that WE have done (or can do), but rather we can only be regarded as righteous if we are
accounted so by God. Also very clearly the misunderstanding in this discussion hinges on the wording of (or idea behind) the assertion "
David was righteous because of faith". This, as I think you would agree,
cannot mean David had something
of his own accord before trusting in God to which he could attribute as a result his salvation through grace or any imputed righteousness. No man can come to the Son (who is The Righteous and The Just) unless the Father draws him first
(John 6:44). So the "chicken or the egg" issue in the chronological order by which one "comes to God" clearly falls
on God first drawing the sinner through grace
unto faith.
I don't believe in a Calvinistic "irresistible grace", man does have a free will and choice, but regardless the choice would not even be
presented to man unless the Father first drew him. Men cannot arrive at an opportunity to become righteous by their own free will, much less make it happen of their own works, ability, or power. The
working of righteousness is a supernatural, inward working of power (
dunamis) by the Holy Spirit in the believer (or 'faith-er' to emphasize faith) as we place trust in God to redeem and sanctify us daily.
Let's return then to the denial that "
David had something of his own accord before trusting in God". Here I draw on Paul's understanding of where his righteousness came from:
"More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." (Philippians 3:8-9)
Therefore, yes indeed, Scripture is very clear there is
a righteousness to be had for ourselves but not
by means of ourselves, but rather
by faith in Jesus Christ (which I have already established can only first happen if the Father draw us).
I think this reconciles the two points you and Mitspa have been making. No need to overly complicate the doctrine, and I merely am commenting on that doctrine and not necessarily applying this to anything in particular in David's life. I'm not pointing out specifics at this point I mean, so as to not get mired in all the previous discussion. However it is clear that David, as the other saints, did at some point in their life arrive at faith in God by means of God's great mercies toward them.
God Bless,
~Josh
