Death is come up into our windows!

[whirlwind]

Christ was sent to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel." He was of the house of Judah, a Jew, through His mother Mary but He was not sent to them...nor were His disciples. They, the house of Israel, are not nor ever have been Jews.

• Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
  
  15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

He was sent to them and...He found us. We carry His name.

Wow. I have never seen this argument. Let me see if I understand you - you are saying that Jesus' mission was narrowly focused on the lost 10 tribes, to the exclusion of Judah? I do not see how such an argument can work. You are leveraging the ambiguity of the term "Israel" in support of an hypothesis that is otherwise entirely untenable.

Dear Drew...do you or do you not believe His Words. It is not me that is saying anything. It doesn't matter what I believe...it is what is written. Accept it or not.

We all know, or at least should know, that the term "Israel" has multiple connotations. Sometimes it denotes all 12 tribes, and, as much as I suspect this will only feed your exegitical errors, sometimes it refers to the church, and, of course, sometimes it refers to the 10 tribes.

But, there is every reason to believe that when Jesus refers to being sent to "the lost sheep of Israel", he is referring to all Jews, not just the 10 northern tribes as you seem to think.

Biblically, Jews does not nor ever has referred to Israel. Jews are of Israel but not all Israel are Jews.

The reasons for this are many. Throughout his ministry, Jesus preached to the Jews of Judah, calling them to a new way of living and critiquing their leaders. He even declares himself to the the chief cornerstone of the temple, the center of of life for the tribe of Judah. So it is very hard to make the case that Jesus' ministry does not include the tribe of Judah.

I didn't say it did or did not include Judah. I quoted His Words. Please refer to them. Also consider that as the Chief Cornerstone it is of the living temple...that is us. We are the temple.

Some of us are Israel by lineage others of us are Israel through belief. Either way, we are His chosen and His letter, the Bible, is written to us...for all time until the end of time. And...if that is "foolishness" to you and others then...so be it. [/b]

It is true that there is indeed a sense in which we, the church can see ourselves as Israel. But, as the Romans 9 example so clearly shows, we cannot apply the over-simplified hermeutical key of thinking that every reference to Israel is a reference to the church.

References to Israel are to God's chosen....all twelve tribes and that would include those that become Israel through belief. Thus...the Jeremiah quote pertains to us.

 

[Drew]

Dear Drew...do you or do you not believe His Words. It is not me that is saying anything. It doesn't matter what I believe...it is what is written. Accept it or not.

Its not that simple. We all know, or at least should know, that the term "Israel" does not have only one meaning in the Bible. You are simply arbitrarily choosing one of the available meanings and seem to think that you have no obligation to substantiate your position.

The "I am just quoting his words" line simply does not work. You are no doubt leveraging the fact that 10 tribes were indeed "lost", and that Jesus refers to "Israel" as "lost". Fair enough, I can see why you might think that Jesus is suggesting His ministry is somehow restricted to these 10 lost tribes.

But there is no way to reconcile that claim with the vast corpus of Jesus' actions and teachings. Let there be no mistake - Jesus spent a lot of his time doing two things: Pronouncing judgement on the Israel of his day - and this was not the 10 lost tribes - and inviting the the Israel of his day - again clearly not the lost tribes - to follow his new way of "being Israel".

Jesus was deeply and directly engaged with the Jews around him. There is no way one can reconcile this with the interpretation you offer for the texts in question.

 

[Drew]

References to Israel are to God's chosen....all twelve tribes and that would include those that become Israel through belief. Thus...the Jeremiah quote pertains to us.

Alright, lets see how this "hermeneutical key" works in the context of several texts from Romans 9. Here is one:

I am telling the truth in Christ (I am not lying!), for my conscience assures me in the Holy Spirit – I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed – cut off from Christ – for the sake of my people, my fellow countrymen, who are Israelites.

Now lets subsitute "God's chosen" for Israel:

I am telling the truth in Christ (I am not lying!), for my conscience assures me in the Holy Spirit – I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed – cut off from Christ – for the sake of my people, my fellow countrymen, God's chosen.

Paul has sorrow for God's chosen? It must really be terrible to be one of God's chosen, to have to put up with eternal life with God, etc. I trust the point is clear.

And here is another text:

What shall we say then? – that the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness obtained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith, but Israel even though pursuing a law of righteousness did not attain it.Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but (as if it were possible) by works. 59 They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Now lets subsitute "God's chosen" for Israel:

]What shall we say then? – that the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness obtained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith, but God's chosen even though pursuing a law of righteousness did not attain it.Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but (as if it were possible) by works. 59 God's chosenstumbled over the stumbling stone,

God's chosen did not attain righteousness? I thought that's what it meant to be God's chosen. God's chosen stumbled over Jesus?

Please. It is a demonstrably false oversimplification to assume that all references to Israel are allusions to God's chosen.

 

[whirlwind]

Dear Drew...do you or do you not believe His Words. It is not me that is saying anything. It doesn't matter what I believe...it is what is written. Accept it or not.

Its not that simple. We all know, or at least should know, that the term "Israel" does not have only one meaning in the Bible. You are simply arbitrarily choosing one of the available meanings and seem to think that you have no obligation to substantiate your position.

Israel refers to the tribes. Then you have the divisions of those tribes...the two houses. The house of Judah and the house of Israel. Jews and Christians...all God's children.

The "I am just quoting his words" line simply does not work. You are no doubt leveraging the fact that 10 tribes were indeed "lost", and that Jesus refers to "Israel" as "lost". Fair enough, I can see why you might think that Jesus is suggesting His ministry is somehow restricted to these 10 lost tribes.

Why I "might think that?" Come on Drew...it is what He tells us. It is really an interesting subject...one I think you would enjoy.

But there is no way to reconcile that claim with the vast corpus of Jesus' actions and teachings. Let there be no mistake - Jesus spent a lot of his time doing two things: Pronouncing judgement on the Israel of his day - and this was not the 10 lost tribes - and inviting the the Israel of his day - again clearly not the lost tribes - to follow his new way of "being Israel".

Jesus was deeply and directly engaged with the Jews around him. There is no way one can reconcile this with the interpretation you offer for the texts in question.

Did I offer anything or did I quote His Words? The house of Israel are also termed Ephraim in some passages, as that was the larger of the ten tribes and they would go under his banner. Interestingly, Ephraim and Manassah...the two sons of Joseph have a huge play in history. The whole episode of Jacob/Israel blessing the two boys tells us a great deal about their destiny.

 

[whirlwind]

References to Israel are to God's chosen....all twelve tribes and that would include those that become Israel through belief. Thus...the Jeremiah quote pertains to us.

Alright, lets see how this "hermeneutical key" works in the context of several texts from Romans 9. Here is one:

I am telling the truth in Christ (I am not lying!), for my conscience assures me in the Holy Spirit – I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed – cut off from Christ – for the sake of my people, my fellow countrymen, who are Israelites.

Now lets subsitute "God's chosen" for Israel:

I am telling the truth in Christ (I am not lying!), for my conscience assures me in the Holy Spirit – I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed – cut off from Christ – for the sake of my people, my fellow countrymen, God's chosen.

Paul has sorrow for God's chosen? It must really be terrible to be one of God's chosen, to have to put up with eternal life with God, etc. I trust the point is clear.

How many times does He tells us that all Israel are His chosen ones? How many times is He angry at His chosen ones?

And here is another text:

What shall we say then? – that the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness obtained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith, but Israel even though pursuing a law of righteousness did not attain it.Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but (as if it were possible) by works. 59 They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Now lets subsitute "God's chosen" for Israel:

]What shall we say then? – that the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness obtained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith, but God's chosen even though pursuing a law of righteousness did not attain it.Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but (as if it were possible) by works. 59 God's chosenstumbled over the stumbling stone,

God's chosen did not attain righteousness? I thought that's what it meant to be God's chosen. God's chosen stumbled over Jesus?

Please. It is a demonstrably false oversimplification to assume that all references to Israel are allusions to God's chosen.

Drew...have you sinned? Have you stumbled? Are you His chosen? :yes

 

[Drew]

Although I have seen a lot of things on this board, I have never experienced what I am seeing from you ww - an approach where local context is entirely thrown to the wind and a hermeneutical "Israel always means the church" key is applied. I suspect you will stand entirely alone on this approach.

The texts I have posted are clearly about the nation of Israel. Paul is weeping over his countrymen, the ones of his own race. And it is clear why he is upset: they, that is his fellow ethnic Jews have rejected the Messiah.

Same with the other text. Paul refers sadly to the fact that his fellows Jews have failed to recognize their own Messiah and have, in fact, stumbled over Him and did not attain righteousness. How you think a failure to attain righteousness can be predicated of the church - the very ones who get righteousness - is a deep mystery to me.

I am willing to bet that not one single person, teaching at any seminary or university, anywhere in the world, thinks that these two references to "Israel" are a reference to the church.

 

[whirlwind]

Although I have seen a lot of things on this board, I have never experienced what I am seeing from you ww - an approach where local context is entirely thrown to the wind and a hermeneutical "Israel always means the church" key is applied. I suspect you will stand entirely alone on this approach.

The texts I have posted are clearly about the nation of Israel. Paul is weeping over his countrymen, the ones of his own race. And it is clear why he is upset: they, that is his fellow ethnic Jews have rejected the Messiah.

Paul was a Jew. He was of the tribe of Benjamin so he was of the house of Judah. As such he was also of Israel...not the house of Israel but of Israel.

Same with the other text. Paul refers sadly to the fact that his fellows Jews have failed to recognize their own Messiah and have, in fact, stumbled over Him and did not attain righteousness. How you think a failure to attain righteousness can be predicated of the church - the very ones who get righteousness - is a deep mystery to me.

I am willing to bet that not one single person, teaching at any seminary or university, anywhere in the world, thinks that these two references to "Israel" are a reference to the church.

:D

 

[Vic C.]

Did I offer anything or did I quote His Words? The house of Israel are also termed Ephraim in some passages, as that was the larger of the ten tribes and they would go under his banner. Interestingly, Ephraim and Manassah...the two sons of Joseph have a huge play in history. The whole episode of Jacob/Israel blessing the two boys tells us a great deal about their destiny.

There is another member here, Tim_from_Pa who has some insight and believes some of this. But... they are his beliefs. I do not recall one incident where he came into a discussion insisting it was carved in stone. He realizes it's his POV. He has no pride in the fact that his beliefs are different, nor does he claim any divine revelation.

Just some food for thought.

 

[whirlwind]

Did I offer anything or did I quote His Words? The house of Israel are also termed Ephraim in some passages, as that was the larger of the ten tribes and they would go under his banner. Interestingly, Ephraim and Manassah...the two sons of Joseph have a huge play in history. The whole episode of Jacob/Israel blessing the two boys tells us a great deal about their destiny.

There is another member here, Tim_from_Pa who has some insight and believes some of this. But... they are his beliefs. I do not recall one incident where he came into a discussion insisting it was carved in stone. He realizes it's his POV. He has no pride in the fact that his beliefs are different, nor does he claim any divine revelation.

Just some food for thought.

It isn't my POV. It is the Word of our Lord and as I stated before....if one finds it to be foolishness or not doesn't bother me in the least. Please understand...it is not "divine revelation" nor is there any "pride" involved. It is written in His Word. If you have questions simply look up the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

 

[toddm]

It isn't my POV. It is the Word of our Lord and as I stated before....if one finds it to be foolishness or not doesn't bother me in the least. Please understand...it is not "divine revelation" nor is there any "pride" involved. It is written in His Word. If you have questions simply look up the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

This seems to be the common "theme" of your posts - "I'm just quoting His word". The problem that Drew, myself, Free, and others have tried to point out is that you are ripping "His Word" right out of context and forcing it to mean something it does not! You are literally ABUSING His Word by not reading it contextually. This is like people that take James 2:18 out its context and make a works based salvation, or taking Mark 11:24 and making it say that we can ask God for anything (new house, BMW, etc.) and He's obligated to give it to us because we have faith.

You can't just rip verses out of their context, plug your own interpretation into it, and then say "well, that's what Jesus says so don't argue with me!" That's carelessness with God's Word and it bothers me as I'm sure it bothers others around here too.

 

[Drew]

You can't just rip verses out of their context, plug your own interpretation into it, and then say "well, that's what Jesus says so don't argue with me!" That's carelessness with God's Word and it bothers me as I'm sure it bothers others around here too.

It should come as no suprise that I agree with your general point here.

Returning to the original text, I think that further arguments can be provided as to why we should see it as being about judgement against Israel. As you may know, there is an emerging awareness in the church of the dimension of "story" as revealed in the scriptures - the notion of an unfolding narrative of God's working in the world. This view challenges the "timeless truths" idea - that everything in the Bible is either directly, or indirectly, the assertion of some timeless truth.

Well, I am not denying that there are "timeliess truths" in the Bible. But we must bear the "grand narrative" in mind. Greatly simplifying, I would say the grand narrative is basically this:

1. God created man and man fell - creation was tainted as a result with death;

2. God plans to "reverse the fall" and calls Abraham and Israel as the people by which this will be accomplished - the covenant is set so that the Jews will be the means by which the "nations" are blessed (read: delivered from sin and death);

3. The Jews ultimately turn out to fail in their covenant obligations. How could this be otherwise - they too are "in Adam".

4. God therefore sends the one faithful Israelite - Jesus - to take Israel's destiny and fulfill the covenant;

5. Jesus does this by dying on the cross. The purpose of the covenant has been fulfilled - the nations have been delivered from the power of sin and death.

What does this have to do with Jeremiah 9? Well, most of us accept this idea that Jesus "bears the penaltly for our sin - our sins are "placed onto Jesus" and He is punished in our stead. I actually would want to nuance that a bit, but that's another story. The basic idea is this: Israel's destiny devolves onto Jesus. In the "story" way of looking at things, it makes perfect sense to assert that indeed Israel in particular is threatened with the judgement of death that her faithful representative Jesus ultimately bears.

In other words, seeing Jeremiah 9 as denoting judgement against Israel makes perfect sense since it perfectly anticipates what we otherwise know to be true of the big picture - the threatened judgement against Israel is ultimately borne by her representative.

If we see the text as ww and others are suggesting, that whole narrative kind of falls apart.

A word to others who see the Jeremiah text as "about Israel": you may think I am disagreeing with you, whereas past posts would suggest that we agree. Well, I am not disagreeing with you. The "windows" text is indeed directed at Israel. And no doubt, the nation of Israel was indeed "punished" later in her history. But I think there is a larger story that sits "on top" of that - what I have outlined above. I think it is biblical to assert that when Jesus goes to the cross, He is, in large measure, taking the punishment that Israel has been threatened with - and this is precisely why it makes so much sense to see the Jer 9 passage as "Israel-specific".

 

[follower of Christ]

The prophecy in Jeremiah 9 is about Israel. Jeremiah is telling what was about to happen to his people. It is a prophecy warning the Israelites of the imminent judgment which is about fall upon them and the surrounding gentile (heathen) nations. The death in this case is from God and HIS judgment.

Please, stop making things that which they are not. :gah

AMEN AND AMEN !

 

[whirlwind]

It isn't my POV. It is the Word of our Lord and as I stated before....if one finds it to be foolishness or not doesn't bother me in the least. Please understand...it is not "divine revelation" nor is there any "pride" involved. It is written in His Word. If you have questions simply look up the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

This seems to be the common "theme" of your posts - "I'm just quoting His word". The problem that Drew, myself, Free, and others have tried to point out is that you are ripping "His Word" right out of context and forcing it to mean something it does not! You are literally ABUSING His Word by not reading it contextually. This is like people that take James 2:18 out its context and make a works based salvation, or taking Mark 11:24 and making it say that we can ask God for anything (new house, BMW, etc.) and He's obligated to give it to us because we have faith.

You can't just rip verses out of their context, plug your own interpretation into it, and then say "well, that's what Jesus says so don't argue with me!" That's carelessness with God's Word and it bothers me as I'm sure it bothers others around here too.

Oh...I don't say "don't argue with me," for the more you argue the more opportunity is presented for His Word to go forward...His Word, not man's. Look back over the thread Todd and see who does and does not present His Word. And you are correct in that the "common theme of my posts" is indeed presenting THE WORD OF GOD...not man, not books, not who or whatever but....HIS WORD.

• Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
  
  Mark 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

Once His Spirit teaches us we are to tell others, "upon the housetops" but when we have reached that stage then we DO NOT go back and allow man to teach us which would be taking "any thing out of his house." We as believers are of one house. We as the elect are to "preach upon" the top of this house with His Words, His teaching, His message but we are not to allow those not led by the Spirit to teach us. To do so would be entering the house and taking from it...not from Him.


We all have the ability to read His Word, if we know how to read. We, as His children, are to SEE and HEAR His Word. Learning what is written, the letter of the word, is the milk. Understanding, seeing and hearing, what is written, the spirit of the word, is the meat. If you wish to say I'm "abusing, ripping out of context, and being careless" with His Word then okay...do so.

Those that are to understand what is said will understand for He leads us. He leads me to see what the Spirit says through others. We are to learn from each other as He teaches us individually and opens Scripture...so He does with others. We are to come together and learn.

• Malachi 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name. And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

 

[whirlwind]

You can't just rip verses out of their context, plug your own interpretation into it, and then say "well, that's what Jesus says so don't argue with me!" That's carelessness with God's Word and it bothers me as I'm sure it bothers others around here too.

It should come as no suprise that I agree with your general point here.

Returning to the original text, I think that further arguments can be provided as to why we should see it as being about judgement against Israel. As you may know, there is an emerging awareness in the church of the dimension of "story" as revealed in the scriptures - the notion of an unfolding narrative of God's working in the world. This view challenges the "timeless truths" idea - that everything in the Bible is either directly, or indirectly, the assertion of some timeless truth.

It is indeed about Israel. We must understand who Israel is.

Well, I am not denying that there are "timeliess truths" in the Bible. But we must bear the "grand narrative" in mind. Greatly simplifying, I would say the grand narrative is basically this:

1. God created man and man fell - creation was tainted as a result with death;

2. God plans to "reverse the fall" and calls Abraham and Israel as the people by which this will be accomplished - the covenant is set so that the Jews will be the means by which the "nations" are blessed (read: delivered from sin and death);

3. The Jews ultimately turn out to fail in their covenant obligations. How could this be otherwise - they too are "in Adam".

4. God therefore sends the one faithful Israelite - Jesus - to take Israel's destiny and fulfill the covenant;

5. Jesus does this by dying on the cross. The purpose of the covenant has been fulfilled - the nations have been delivered from the power of sin and death.

What does this have to do with Jeremiah 9? Well, most of us accept this idea that Jesus "bears the penaltly for our sin - our sins are "placed onto Jesus" and He is punished in our stead. I actually would want to nuance that a bit, but that's another story. The basic idea is this: Israel's destiny devolves onto Jesus. In the "story" way of looking at things, it makes perfect sense to assert that indeed Israel in particular is threatened with the judgement of death that her faithful representative Jesus ultimately bears.

Yes, Israel (all of Israel...Jew and Christian) are warned to shape up. Follow Him...don't fall into apostasy. Don't allow death to come into your windows.

In other words, seeing Jeremiah 9 as denoting judgement against Israel makes perfect sense since it perfectly anticipates what we otherwise know to be true of the big picture - the threatened judgement against Israel is ultimately borne by her representative.

If we see the text as ww and others are suggesting, that whole narrative kind of falls apart.

A word to others who see the Jeremiah text as "about Israel": you may think I am disagreeing with you, whereas past posts would suggest that we agree. Well, I am not disagreeing with you. The "windows" text is indeed directed at Israel. And no doubt, the nation of Israel was indeed "punished" later in her history. But I think there is a larger story that sits "on top" of that - what I have outlined above. I think it is biblical to assert that when Jesus goes to the cross, He is, in large measure, taking the punishment that Israel has been threatened with - and this is precisely why it makes so much sense to see the Jer 9 passage as "Israel-specific".

It is "Israel-specific." We are His children. He wants us to be with Him.

 

[whirlwind]

[quote="Vic C.":12kjusqn]The prophecy in Jeremiah 9 is about Israel. Jeremiah is telling what was about to happen to his people. It is a prophecy warning the Israelites of the imminent judgment which is about fall upon them and the surrounding gentile (heathen) nations. The death in this case is from God and HIS judgment.

Please, stop making things that which they are not. :gah

AMEN AND AMEN ![/quote:12kjusqn]



Well hello you cigar smoking duck....I haven't seen you for quite awhile.

Would you and Vic care to list the "things" I'm saying that "are not?" Along with Scripture of course.

 

[Joe67]

All should consider and hear all that is witnessed in the following testimony of Jesus.

1 Cor 1:27-2:1
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. KJV

Until we confess that we are base and foolish and weak, then we glory in the flesh. Until we confess that we are nothing and are reconciled to being despised, without railing against those who despise us, we rob God of his glory in Jesus Christ.

Peter was called. Jesus as the Christ was revealed to him by the Father. Peter was still unconverted. He promised that he would go with his Lord to prison and death. He did not know his heart. He pulled the sword. He was reproved. He ran. He stayed in the background. He denied when asked. He was converted through this agonizing process.

We cannot study our way into conversion, though study is useful for its limited purpose. We cannot pray our way through into conversion, though prayer is useful for its limited purpose. Jesus being revealed to us as the Christ, the Son of God, is not conversion. In the fullness of time, the Father brings the same process to bear upon us as he did Peter and the disciples, through humiliation, disappointment and loss of all things.

Conversion comes to us. But even conversion was not the end of the discipline of God for Peter. The report is clear. Our Lord has left us a simple story. Through elementary hearing and seeing the report comes to us by the holy Spirit of Jesus sent down from heaven.

The disciples that Jesus had called did not know what manner of spirit was moving them.

Let us not ridicule each other, let us not seek to control the belief of each other, let us not seek to control the method by which the Spirit of Jesus gives us to believe upon the Father and the Son through the holy Scriptures. Some are given to believe because of the works of Jesus. Some are given to believe because of the words of Jesus. Japeth abides in the tent of Shem. Only Ham is rejected.

Joe

 

[follower of Christ]

Well hello you cigar smoking duck....I haven't seen you for quite awhile.

Would you and Vic care to list the "things" I'm saying that "are not?" Along with Scripture of course.

When you take a scripture completely out of context and pretend it says things it doesnt and apply it to things that it doesnt, well we dont have to say a thing...your own ignorance speaks for itself.
Anyone in this thread can read that passage for themselves and see that you are twisting it to say things it doesnt and apply it to that which it does not apply.

I decided a while back to just let you do your own damage to yourself in the eyes of the readers here.
I hardly need to even say a word when anyone here can see how absurd your conclusions are and how poor your skills with the scripture actually are.

 

[follower of Christ]

Jeremiah 9:21 For death is come up into our windows, and is entered into our palaces, to cut off the children from without, and the young men from the streets.

• Death is one of Satan's many names.....

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

• Death, comes into our windows to enter our homes. To me this means through our windows to the world...our televisions and computers. They are fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for they are...good and evil. He, Death, uses these windows to keep God's children and God's young men, (the man child) from the "streets." Well, in today society, keeping someone "off the streets" is a good thing...but that isn't what is meant.
  
  [list:3r7ha03f]Streets....width, avenue or area; broad place (way), street.
  
  Without...to sever, separate by a wall, outside, outdoors; abroad, field, forth highway, more out(side) street, without.

As I was reading the above verse in Jeremiah I wondered why Death wants to keep us "from the streets." Then I realized....He wants the children "cut off from without," and the "young men from the streets," as it keeps them from their destiny. The children of God and the young men are...the two witnesses. They are to take His word forward...to witness for Him. Among them, some will be those shown below....[/list:u:3r7ha03f]

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

• [list:3r7ha03f]Street ...wide place, open square.

That is the street Death wants to keep us from. The great city is the world...not Jerusalem and he wants to keep us from witnessing in this world.[/list:u:3r7ha03f]

Jeremiah 9:21 For death is come up into our windows, and is entered into our palaces, to cut off the children from without, and the young men from the streets.

Jer 9:21
For death is come up into our windows
Their doors being shut, bolted, and barred, they thought themselves safe, but were not; the Chaldeans scaled their walls, broke in at the tops of their houses, or at their windows, and destroyed them: for the invasion of the enemy, and the manner of their entrance into them, seem to be described. Death is here represented as a person, as it sometimes is in Scripture; see Rev_6:8 and as coming suddenly and unawares upon men, and from whom there is no escape, or any way and method of keeping him out; bolts and bars will not do; he can climb up, and go in at the window:

and is entered into our palaces;
the houses of their principal men, which were well built, and most strongly fortified, these could not keep out the enemy: and death spares none, high nor low, rich nor poor; it enters the palaces of great men, as well as the cottages of the poor. The Septuagint version is, "it is entered into our land"; and so the Arabic version; only it places the phrase, "into our land", in the preceding clause; and that of "into", or "through our windows", in this:

to cut off the children from without, and the young men from the streets;
these words are not strictly to be connected with the preceding, as though they pressed the end of death, ascending up to the windows, and entering palaces, to cut off such as were in the streets; but the words are a proposition of themselves, as the distinctive accent "athnach" shows; and must be supplied after this manner, and passing through them it goes on, "to cut off", &c. and so aptly describes the invading enemy climbing the walls of the city, entering at windows, or tops of houses, upon or near the walls; and, having destroyed all within, goes forth into the streets, where children were at play, and slays them and into courts or markets, where young men were employed in business, and destroys them. The Jews (e) interpret it of famine.

John Gill

Jer 9:10-22
The punishment described in general terms in the preceding three verses is now detailed at great length.
Jer_9:10
The habitations i. e - the temporary encampments of the shepherds (see Jer_6:3).
So that none can ... - Or, “They are parched up, with no man to pass through them; neither do they hear the voice of cattle; from the birds of the heaven even to the beasts they “are fled, they are gone.â€
Jer_9:11
Dragons - Rather, jackals.
Jer_9:12
For what the land perisheth ... - This is the question proposed for consideration. The prophet calls upon the wise man to explain his question; that question being, Wherefore did the land perish? He follows it by the assertion of a fact: “It is parched like the wilderness with no man to pass through.â€
Jer_9:13
The cause of the chastisement about to fall upon Jerusalem, was their desertion of the divine Law.
Jer_9:14
Imagination - Or, as in the margin.
Which their fathers taught them - It was not the sin of one generation that brought upon them chastisement: it was a sin, which had been handed down from father to son.
Jer_9:15
I will feed them ... - Rather, I am feeding them. The present participle used here, followed by three verbs in the future, shows that the judgment has beam, of which the successive stages are given in the next clause.
Wormwood - See Deu_29:18, note, and for “water of gall,†Jer_8:14, note.
Jer_9:16
This verse is taken from Lev_26:33. The fulfillment of what had been so long before appointed as the penalty for the violation of Yahweh’s covenant is one of the most remarkable proofs that prophecy was something more than human foresight.
Till I have consumed them - See Jer_4:27 note. How is this “consuming†consistent with the promise to the contrary there given? Because it is limited by the terms of Jer_9:7. Previously to Nebuchadnezzars destruction of Jerusalem God removed into safety those in whom the nation should revive.
Jer_9:17
The mourning women - Hired to attend at funerals, and by their skilled wailings aid the real mourners in giving vent to their grief. Hence, they are called “cunning,†literally “wise†women, wisdom being constantly used in Scripture for anything in which people are trained.
Jer_9:18
Take up a wailing for us - i. e., for the nation once God’s chosen people, but long spiritually dead.
Jer_9:19
Forsaken - Or, left: forced to abandon the land.
Because our dwellings ... - Rather, “because they have east down our dwellings.†The whole verse is a description of their sufferings. See 2Ki_25:1-12.
Jer_9:20
The command is addressed to the women because it was more especially their part to express the general feelings of the nation. See 1Sa_18:6; 2Sa_1:24. The women utter now the death-wail over the perishing nation. They are to teach their daughters and neighbors the “lamentation, i. e., dirge,†because the harvest of death would be so large that the number of trained women would not suffice.
Jer_9:21
Death is come up ... - i. e., death steals silently like a thief upon his victims, and makes such havoc that there are no children left to go “without,†nor young men to frequent the open spaces in the city.
Jer_9:22
The “handful†means the little bundle of grain which the reaper gathers on his arm with three or four strokes of his sickle, and then lays down. Behind the reaper came one whose business it was to gather several of these bundles, and bind them into a sheaf. Thus, death strews the ground with corpses as thickly as these handfuls lie upon the reaped land, but the corpses lie there unheeded.

Albert Barnes

 

[follower of Christ]

Death, comes into our windows to enter our homes. To me this means through our windows to the world...our televisions and computers.

And yet here you are, using your computer that brings death into your home.
Something tells us that you dont actually believe this nonsense or you wouldnt own a computer

 

[follower of Christ]

TO THE READER HERE.

I posted a couple items from commentators above.
The reason I did this is because Ive learned not to waste my entire day arguing with Whirlwind about her absurd insertions into the scriptures.
Its sort of like if she proclaimed that the moon was made of cheese.
How do you convince a person who is so deluded that its not really made of cheese. Man has been to the moon and we know its NOT made of cheese, but for those who are delusional enough to reject the facts there comes a time when you simply sit back, smile and nod and let them ramble on about how the moon is made of cheese and know that those who listen to them know that they are deluded.

No offense intende to WW, but this is precisely where I am with her.

.