Deception in Religion

[Not_Now.Soon]

I'm not sure if the first soil would apply to Christians, since there would no understanding of the Gospel message, followed by Satan's action to take away even that which was heard.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. (Mt 13:19)

Why wouldn't it apply to Christians too? This thread is about man made deceptions in religion. That sounds like a lot of how we can hear something from God and reject it because we don't understand it, or because it conflicts with what we think is the truth.

I mean it could be talking about Christians but not true Christians. But on the other hand, who is a real Christian and who isn't, isn't up to us. It's up to God, and both His grace in us, and how He molds us into better Christians. Therefore I'd say it can apply to Christians and nonchristians.

 

[Nathan12]

Why wouldn't it apply to Christians too?

Because "the word of the Kingdom" is the Gospel message (Mt 4:17). And unless a person understands and believes the Gospel message, and receives Christ, he or she cannot be a Christian (Romans 10).

The first soil is those who are unsaved, hear the Gospel, do not understand what it says about them and about Christ, and then Satan comes along and plants doubts and confusion in their minds. This could even apply to those who have been deceived into joining the cults, and do not really understand God's true Gospel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Because "the word of the Kingdom" is the Gospel message (Mt 4:17). And unless a person understands and believes the Gospel message, and receives Christ, he or she cannot be a Christian (Romans 10).

The first soil is those who are unsaved, hear the Gospel, do not understand what it says about them and about Christ, and then Satan comes along and plants doubts and confusion in their minds. This could even apply to those who have been deceived into joining the cults, and do not really understand God's true Gospel.

Matthew 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

It can apply to Christians, but only by name only as they truly are none of Christ own as they have no truth found in them. Satan comes along and devours (blinds) them so they will never come to any understanding as they follow the doctrine of devils.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i think it can be a useful parable for self-examination. not that i think its the best idea to look over and over, within, to see if you is truly 'in Christ," but...

ok...its another example...from me. LOL. I got saved, by a miracle, a tad over 6 years ago. because of all the brain damage, etc., limited understanding of some of the finer points of Christian doctrine and also...hard to really, deeply 'get it,' if you understand. now...

i try to pray on being less me, more Jesus...and having a soft heart, for God to guide me and teach me (like the good soil), because I want to be receptive to true wisdom, but also...

--discernment-- I'm blessed in that before my mind was restored, I was given a good bit of discernment, probably because...I needed it, more so than most others. i guess lack of discernment could be interpreted as shallow, meaningless 'faith,' kinda like...is it the shallow soil that just cannot put down roots and dies?

 

[PeterJens]

Have you ever played that childhood game where someone whispers something in your ear and you pass it on to the next person beside you and by the time it gets to the last person in line it’s altogether different then what was originally said? This is the same way in many Churches as how the word of God is being taught. The word was spoken by God for what he has already said and by the time it reaches our ears we are hearing something totally different then what he spoke in the first place. Has this become the deception we now find in religion with each one teaching a different gospel?

Many people love to dictate to you what you can and cannot do according to what they have been taught through mans doctrines and carnal interpretations and this only brings one into a deceptive bondage that can damage our very soul and cause us to fall away from God because we cannot meet the standards of the church to be that perfect person they say we need to be before we can even accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior and not only before, but even after.

Many churches go as far as shutting the doors on those who do not meet their criteria as they deem certain people as unworthy of God and misfits of society that need to clean themselves up first before they can come to church as they would be a bad influence on the youth of the church. I would say let the youth of the church be a good influence on those who need Jesus in their lives as Jesus said to come as you are and he will change anything that needs changing beginning with the condition of our hearts.

Satan has such a foothold on religion by using those unaware to teach his twisted word as Satan knows this word better than we ever could. Those who lack the knowledge of truth will perish along with the deceptive word they teach. Our English language produces many different definitions for a singular word that has caused a misinterpretation from the teachings of the original manuscripts that were written by the Disciples of Christ. The carnal mind can not perceive the teachings of the Holy Spirit and if we are not allowing the Holy Spirit to teach us then we will fall prey to those deceptions and be devoured by the wicked one who seeks to destroy our faith.

God confounded the babble of language and separated the nations to make unto himself a nation that is worthy of His name. Nation can mean an actual land mass or a gathering together of those who are called by God all over the world. Be careful for what you learn as only the Holy Spirit can bring us into all truths as he uses those around us to teach us. Satan is very clever as he presents a gospel that is contradicting to the word of God as he deceives and confuses those who lack Spiritual knowledge.

Unwritten assumptions

The bible is wrong, it is an invented document to support a political group of a time.
Now if I believe this, I am looking not for meaning but indicators behind the words that speak to this agenda. I have immediately ignored the message and am looking for something else.

That passage was written for Jews and not me.
So I can dismiss anything in my thinking though the passage is valid and does apply I have already put it to one side.

You are evil because you did not say the special phrase
The idea is only the "anointed" preacher speaks the truth. So unless the oracle is correct of course it is all wrong. Such people will then look for things to dismiss whatever is said, simply because it is wrong so why bother to work out its meaning

A few real examples is "fear" is evil.
A feeling of conviction is satan denying your faith
Only encouraging verses are from the Lord.
Sin is nothing to be guilty about, God has forgiven you before you sin.
Doubt is evil so being challenged to test your faith is evil.

It is amazing the poisonous effects such ideas have on people.
And a common thread is they could not be wrong, and will not even open
up to any critical thinking or alternatives, which shows they are frozen where
they are and do not want any change.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Because "the word of the Kingdom" is the Gospel message (Mt 4:17). And unless a person understands and believes the Gospel message, and receives Christ, he or she cannot be a Christian (Romans 10).

The first soil is those who are unsaved, hear the Gospel, do not understand what it says about them and about Christ, and then Satan comes along and plants doubts and confusion in their minds. This could even apply to those who have been deceived into joining the cults, and do not really understand God's true Gospel.

I disagree. You can reject part of the message and still be christian. But here is an example from my life. I started coming to online forums with a purpose to be able to express some of my thoughts and ideas without pushing my friends away who didn't want to hear it. Specifically as a place to talk about religion. I think I've learned a lot since that first forum site, but I also grew into a better writer and able to debate and argue my point more fiersly against those who seemed to only want to agaitate Christians, (or anyone really). Essentially I formed a skill of being a good aggressive debater against those I thought were wrong.

Before I joined that forum (and then eventually left it's toxic enviornment) I had read the bible all the way through once, and a few parts multiple times. But the verses in proverbs about quarreling didn't really get into my understanding until I had read them or been reminded of them several times. They are part of the bible and therefore part of the message from God. (Part of the message from the Kingdom of heaven). But when I read it, I didn't think it applied to me or just didn't consider the verses to apply them to my behavior. As far as I can tell, I fit the discription of hearing the word and having it stolen away from me. It was a message thankfully that I got more then once and am trying to break some habits to apply what is in that verse by not arguing endlessly or taking part in those kinds of situtions. But none the less the first time I read the passage I didn't think it applied to me, and eventually I forgot about it. If that is not the hard path, then I don't know what is.

Nonchristians show the hard path mush more, because they usually reject the gospel and the bible as a whole. But Christians still reject parts of the teachings in the bible and teachings from Jesus a lot. We still have a lot of the hard path in us.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

There was a member here a while ago who said something I've kept thinking about. He said that the bible is for us to learn from and basically everything in it can be applied to us individually. The lessons aren't for just other Christians or to non-believers. But usually can be a lesson or a rebuke we should accept for ourselves as well. I haven't seen the guy who wrote that idea for a while, but his name was smaller.

 

[for_his_glory]

Unwritten assumptions

The bible is wrong, it is an invented document to support a political group of a time.
Now if I believe this, I am looking not for meaning but indicators behind the words that speak to this agenda. I have immediately ignored the message and am looking for something else.

That passage was written for Jews and not me.
So I can dismiss anything in my thinking though the passage is valid and does apply I have already put it to one side.

You are evil because you did not say the special phrase
The idea is only the "anointed" preacher speaks the truth. So unless the oracle is correct of course it is all wrong. Such people will then look for things to dismiss whatever is said, simply because it is wrong so why bother to work out its meaning

A few real examples is "fear" is evil.
A feeling of conviction is satan denying your faith
Only encouraging verses are from the Lord.
Sin is nothing to be guilty about, God has forgiven you before you sin.
Doubt is evil so being challenged to test your faith is evil.

It is amazing the poisonous effects such ideas have on people.
And a common thread is they could not be wrong, and will not even open
up to any critical thinking or alternatives, which shows they are frozen where
they are and do not want any change.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame. 8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity. 9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.

 

[Nathan12]

I disagree. You can reject part of the message and still be christian.

We are not talking about "part of the message" but the Gospel itself. You cannot reject the Gospel and still be a Christian. You cannot fail to understand the Gospel and be a Christian either. A Christian is one who obeys the Gospel. Please note: And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up (Mt 13:4)

 

[for_his_glory]

We are not talking about "part of the message" but the Gospel itself. You cannot reject the Gospel and still be a Christian. You cannot fail to understand the Gospel and be a Christian either. A Christian is one who obeys the Gospel. Please note: And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up (Mt 13:4)

I agree as we need to accept the full Gospel of Christ as we can not just pick out the parts that we like and ignore the rest as the full of scripture from Genesis to Revelaton is for instruction in God's righteousness as we are to obey all His commands.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

We are not talking about "part of the message" but the Gospel itself. You cannot reject the Gospel and still be a Christian. You cannot fail to understand the Gospel and be a Christian either. A Christian is one who obeys the Gospel. Please note: And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up (Mt 13:4)

This might clear up where I'm coming from. What are the seeds.

 

[Nathan12]

This might clear up where I'm coming from. What are the seeds.

The seeds are the Word of God, or more precisely the Gospel, as Peter tells us in 1 Peter 1:23-25.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

The seeds are the Word of God, or more precisely the Gospel, as Peter tells us in 1 Peter 1:23-25.

Right. So the gospel is more then our salvation, or even more then the teachings of our salvation. Yet, for most intents and purposes, all that it takes to be a Christian is to accept Jesus and accept what He has done for us. Our salvation rests on Jesus, and through Him we are saved from our sins and can be citizens of the kingdom of Heaven.

Any more then this is beyond what we can tell for whether a person is a Christian or not, and goes into God's territory of who is a true Christian, a mature Christian or a young one (or even one who gets lost but returns to God later in life). The measure of a Christian isn't something we should try to do. Therefore for any practical discernment of who is a Christian or not, is based on whether or not they accept Jesus and believe in Him.

But there is more to the gospel then our salvation. There is more to what Jesus taught. This is what I mean for some people don't accept what's written and reject the seed sowed in them when they hear it. Is anyone less Christian if they accept homosexuality, or even if they are a pastor who marries homosexual couples? Or is that person still a Christian or because they haven't accepted the gospel in full (including the Old Testament too), or is their being saved and being a Christian reliant on believing Jesus and trusting Him, regardless of knowing the rest or getting caught up in social movements or politics. A second example would be if a divorced person who remarries counts as a Christian.

There is a lot in the gospel. A lot that is taught by Jesus that just isn't known or something is hard to accept. But we strive to understand it, and to trust God even if we don't understand it. Sometimes we have to be reminded the word of God several times before we accept it. Other times we have to go through something hard to make the point and turn to apply what we've heard. To either obey God's comandments and lessons in the first place, or to trust Him when life gets hard.

I'm sorry Nathan, but I just don't accept your interpretation of what is the gospel to accept or reject it all at the same time. You might not agree with my figuring on this matter, but I think we can be thick headed sometimes and not accept what Jesus taught, comanded, and warned us about. But that can be just that we are not mature in understanding yet (shallow roots), or that we have other worries and desires taking our focus (weeds).

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Here's the other part of the parable to consider. The seed is the word. And the harvest is the fruit from the plant that the seed grew. The first hurdle is about even letting the seed in, but the next two hurdles for soil is still about being unfruitful. Hearing the message in the gospel and not believing it or applying is is making that part of the message unfruitful. The same for shallow roots when persecution comes makes it unfruitful, or weeds with the desires and worries of the world choke out the word we accepted at first. These things can be applied to the gospel as a whole (to be Christian, or to reject it in it's entirety), and it can be applied to each lesson and each part of the gospel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Any more then this is beyond what we can tell for whether a person is a Christian or not, and goes into God's territory of who is a true Christian, a mature Christian or a young one (or even one who gets lost but returns to God later in life). The measure of a Christian isn't something we should try to do. Therefore for any practical discernment of who is a Christian or not, is based on whether or not they accept Jesus and believe in Him.

Jesus told us we will know they are of Christ by the fruits they bear.

Matthew 7:
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[stovebolts]

Because "the word of the Kingdom" is the Gospel message (Mt 4:17). And unless a person understands and believes the Gospel message, and receives Christ, he or she cannot be a Christian (Romans 10).

The first soil is those who are unsaved, hear the Gospel, do not understand what it says about them and about Christ, and then Satan comes along and plants doubts and confusion in their minds. This could even apply to those who have been deceived into joining the cults, and do not really understand God's true Gospel.

I look at that parable and Jesus explanation of it a bit differently.

I see it as discipleship and it's various stages. Few make it to fertile soil where the real work of a disciple takes place.

 

[for_his_glory]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.



John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 the same was in the beginning with God. 3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The biggest deception Satan can use is to confuse the unlearned mind. God said his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. You forget me and my word and I will forget you and your children. This is a pretty profound statement that holds so much truth. This is why this world is in the shape it is in today with so many religions claiming they are the true religion and only they will go to heaven and those who do not conform to their ways will go to hell.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Hosea 4:7 as they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame. 8 they eat up the sin of my people and they set their heart on their iniquity. 9 and there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.