Destruction of America and rapture

[Endtime_Survivors]

I do agree with you that the words "America" is not found in the bible.

Hi JLB. Yup, but then again neither is the Name of the AC but eventually there will be a person who will be the AC and he'll have a name. Anyway, thanks for your openness and willingness to consider my point of view. It's refreshing.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Self proclaimed prophets make good money sensationalizing those incomprehensible signs for people with itchy ears.

Yeah, there are people out there doing that. But there are also sincere people trying to understand how both prophecy and real-world events fit together into the bigger picture. I think it would be a mistake to lump them all together just because of the abuses from some.

We need a way to recognize the sincere from the insincere.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

What makes you think I'm upset? Religous zealots pump little kids heads full of speculative potential lying garbage daily. It's nothing new.

I do have an interest in scriptural accuracy. Call it a lifelong passion. Far from being "upset." Do I think your slant is full of utter baloney? Uh, yeah.

Generally speaking I think the spirit of the discussion is more important than the technical details of prophecy and interpretation. After all, if someone has a bad spirit (i.e. angry, arrogant, self righteous, impatient, bitter, rude, etc...) then it doesn't matter how right their argument may be.

It's quite possible to disagree without being insulting. JLB and I have disagreed quite strongly on some issues, but for the most part I have a lot of respect for his contributions and his ability to disagree without being (deliberately) rude about it.

I don't mind if you disagree with me, but if you comment on my posts I'd rather you comment on the substance of my posts. For example, I gave some scriptural evidence for why I think that, although America is not mentioned by name, it does play a role in the bigger picture of prophecy. I understand that you strongly disagree with my assessment, but you've not addressed my evidence or reasoning for why you disagree.

I'm still open to hearing why you disagree but I'm not interested in hearing more stuff about "lying garbage".

 

[reba]

Hi JLB. Yup, but then again neither is the Name of the AC but eventually there will be a person who will be the AC and he'll have a name. Anyway, thanks for your openness and willingness to consider my point of view. It's refreshing.

where do you find that info in the scriptures?

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[Jim Parker]

Yes, opinion.

Just like yours

 

[Jim Parker]

Sounds like you have a lot of pent up unforgiveness and bitterness towards preachers.

Please don't try to psychoanalyze me. You're not qualified so what it sounds like to you is irrelevant and insulting..

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

where do you find that info in the scriptures?

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Hi Reba. Yup, there will be many people teaching/behaving contrary or "anti" to Jesus and
in that sense they are anti-christs. But there will be one person who will lead this anti-christ movement in the end time. He's not referred to by that title in scripture, but the title suits him because he will be very much anti Christ. Because he is the leader (i.e. Satan working through this person) it makes sense to call him "The" Anti-Chirst. In Daniel 7 he's referred to as a "little horn" but that description is obscure and doesn't quite carry over the same sentiment and contextual meaning of being opposed to Jesus which "Anti-Christ" does.

In Revelation 17:10-11 we're told about 7 kings, five which are fallen (previous world empires) and one that yet is (at that time it would have been Rome), and then one which is not yet ( a final Beast or world empire) who must continue a "short space". Based on some other scriptural context it's likely that this leader will suffer a "deadly wound" from which he will miraculously recover. The prophecy talks about an "eighth king" which will likely be Satan possessing the resurrected body of the recently wounded AC (who goes into "perdition". Compare that with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). I believe this will happen at the end of the first 3.5 year period and will kick off the 3.5 years of The Great Tribulation (i.e. when you see the abomination of desolation (the AC) stand in the Holy Place, people should flee because there will be tribulation such as the world has never seen nor ever will see again).

 

[smaller]

Generally speaking I think the spirit of the discussion is more important than the technical details of prophecy and interpretation. After all, if someone has a bad spirit (i.e. angry, arrogant, self righteous, impatient, bitter, rude, etc...) then it doesn't matter how right their argument may be.

Depends on how one sees it. Do I think lying to children is christian? Uh, no. Should I be polite about critique? What's polite? I think telling the truth is always beneficial even if it's painful and/or uncomfortable to others.

It's quite possible to disagree without being insulting.

Just because I called your pet something other than what you want to think it is doesn't mean it's insulting. Ego deflating to you is perhaps more accurate.

JLB and I have disagreed quite strongly on some issues, but for the most part I have a lot of respect for his contributions and his ability to disagree without being (deliberately) rude about it.

I've discussed theology with him for several years. We're both still here. I think he's saved. I think you're saved. I can't see any better for anyone than that. Sorry if your phony pet thoughts got damaged but that's just the way it is with theology sometimes. IF you want to get better you have to learn to take harsh critique.

Which you have ignored in any case and made no attempt to remedy. Which I might consider rude if I didn't know human nature better and expect that to be the case before I start.

There is one factual certainty. The destruction of America exists in no place in the scriptures. That's a hard line fact. So dreaming up that it is is exactly that and nothing more. It's a personal fantasy concoction.

 

[Jim Parker]

there will be one person who will lead this anti-christ movement in the end time. He's not referred to by that title in scripture, but the title suits him because he will be very much anti Christ. Because he is the leader (i.e. Satan working through this person) it makes sense to call him "The" Anti-Chirst. In Daniel 7 he's referred to as a "little horn" but that description is obscure

All the quacks and frauds and ear-ticking charlatans depend on obscure passages to wow the rubes into buying their books and cds and videos and putting money in the collection plate.
It's better than any carny side-show or circus main event.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Yeah so, anyway, I'm keen to hear from anyone else who may have any thoughts to share.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Mar 13:24-27 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven."
That's the second coming.
The whole world will see Jesus coming.

Self proclaimed prophets make good money sensationalizing those incomprehensible signs for people with itchy ears.

Mar 13:24-27 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven."
That's the second coming.
The whole world will see Jesus coming.

Self proclaimed prophets make good money sensationalizing those incomprehensible signs for people with itchy ears.

I don't get your criticism Jim? I'am the one that posted you the Scripture?

 

[Jim Parker]

But there are also sincere people trying to understand how both prophecy and real-world events fit together into the bigger picture. I think it would be a mistake to lump them all together just because of the abuses from some.

Yes there are sincere people trying to understand prophesy.
My point is that spending time trying to figure out who does what when is a distraction from our callings and the good works which we were created to do. (Eph 2:10)
Prophesy is exciting; it's fun.
Becoming a mature Christian takes work and dedication and it's hard. But that's what we're supposed to be doing; maturing into the stature of the fullness of Christ. (Eph 4:13)

Again, when Jesus comes to judge, He will judge according to what we did and did not do. It won't be worth a plug nickle to know all about what all the prophesies meant if you didn't do what He said you should be doing.
At John 5:28-29 (NKJV) Jesus said: … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Notice that Jesus didn't say anything about knowing who, what, when, and where in that verse.
Jesus did say it was none of our business at Acts 1:8 but that doesn't seem to matter. In spite of Jesus explicit words that it wasn't our business to know those things, people spend their time and money chasing after the latest sensational book or video or conference about exactly what Jesus said to never mind.
I don't get it.
Why don't Christians want to focus on what Jesus said was their job?
Or, as Jesus put it, "Why do you call me, "Lord. Lord" and don't do what I tell you?" (Luke 6:46)
I don't get why Christians are so into knowing the latest about the things Jesus told us not to be concerned with and, at the same time neglecting the important things; mercy and justice.
I do get why so many pastors don't focus on making mature Christians out of believers; it tends to result in small congregations and meager incomes. It seems having a big church is more important than making mature Christians.

 

[JLB]

My point is that spending time trying to figure out who does what when is a distraction from our callings and the good works which we were created to do. (Eph 2:10)

If a person is called to be a Teacher, then they should study to show themselves approved.

Can't you see just how silly your reasoning is?

By your "standards" any studying and teaching of the scriptures is just a distraction, from doing good works!

Utter nonsense.

Why would the study of the coming of the Lord be less important than other topics of study?

Why would it be any less important to know how to warn people that there will be a false, counterfeit Christ, that emerges to lead the world astray, and to take the mark of the beast.

Why would showing people the signs that Jesus gave, that will precede His coming, and the resurrection/rapture, be considered such a fruitless waste of time, especially since there are those who teach this is past, [Preterism].

The teaching of the coming of the Lord, or any subject of the bible, is indeed among the "good works" we are to be doing for our Lord.

Especially those who are called to Teach and Pastor.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16

The scriptures themselves have just corrected you.


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

If a person is called to be a Teacher, then they should study to show themselves approved.

Do try not to be insulting.

Can't you see just how silly your reasoning is?

It's not my reasoning. It's what Jesus told His disciples.

By your "standards" any studying and teaching of the scriptures is just a distraction, from doing good works! Utter nonsense.

Yes. Your comment is utter nonsense. I never said anything like that. You have twisted my words.

Why would the study of the coming of the Lord be less important than other topics of study?

I never said it was.
Apparently you have not understood anything I have said.

 

[Brother Mike]

Believing America is not found in the scriptures is speculation.

America is the world's Superpower.

Putin says accepts U S is sole superpower.

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:24

American is within the regional geographical makeup of the 10 kingdoms that are being formed now, as designated by the vision and interpretation of Daniel 2.

Here is the map where the Club of Rome has the earth divided up into 10 kingdoms.

America will eventually be part of Region 1, which is being called the North American Union.


I do agree with you that the words "America" is not found in the bible.



JLB

America is in fact the Mother whore system. We have to go back to the beast system of deception and we lead the whole thing. The surprising thing is, Christians just don't understand how corrupt the world is. We are the only civilians in the beast system that are still armed, they are trying to fix that situation. All news media is controled by the Mesonic Order, this Order extends to several countries most who signed the arctic treaty including North Korea.

I have already destroyed your Post trib doctrine over and over, no need to do that here.
However, I have to change that to pre-wrath.

I am looking for a civil war in the U.S before we get to the events in revelation.

anyway.
Mike.

 

[Jim Parker]

America is in fact the Mother whore system. We have to go back to the beast system of deception and we lead the whole thing. The surprising thing is, Christians just don't understand how corrupt the world is. We are the only civilians in the beast system that are still armed, they are trying to fix that situation. All news media is controled by the Mesonic Order, this Order extends to several countries most who signed the arctic treaty including North Korea.

2
Did the aliens tell you all that when you were abducted?

 

[Brother Mike]

2
Did the aliens tell you all that when you were abducted?

There are no aliens, but it's not pretty anyway.

 

[reba]

Hi Reba. Yup, there will be many people teaching/behaving contrary or "anti" to Jesus and
in that sense they are anti-christs. But there will be one person who will lead this anti-christ movement in the end time. He's not referred to by that title in scripture, but the title suits him because he will be very much anti Christ. Because he is the leader (i.e. Satan working through this person) it makes sense to call him "The" Anti-Chirst. In Daniel 7 he's referred to as a "little horn" but that description is obscure and doesn't quite carry over the same sentiment and contextual meaning of being opposed to Jesus which "Anti-Christ" does.

In Revelation 17:10-11 we're told about 7 kings, five which are fallen (previous world empires) and one that yet is (at that time it would have been Rome), and then one which is not yet ( a final Beast or world empire) who must continue a "short space". Based on some other scriptural context it's likely that this leader will suffer a "deadly wound" from which he will miraculously recover. The prophecy talks about an "eighth king" which will likely be Satan possessing the resurrected body of the recently wounded AC (who goes into "perdition". Compare that with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). I believe this will happen at the end of the first 3.5 year period and will kick off the 3.5 years of The Great Tribulation (i.e. when you see the abomination of desolation (the AC) stand in the Holy Place, people should flee because there will be tribulation such as the world has never seen nor ever will see again).

All those words and nope the scriptures do not say a one guy antichrist... we assume ..conjecture ...think ..believe... guess .. speculate...reckon but the Scriptures do not say there will be A antichrist... the one dude..
The use of 3.5 years is interesting ... how long was Jesus' earthly ministry? ,

contextual meaning of being opposed to Jesus which "Anti-Christ" does.

The Scripture's describe antichrist very clearly...
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Got to get back to painting...

 

[JLB]

I have already destroyed your Post trib doctrine over and over, no need to do that here.

That's funny.

It's hard for me to think that a Spirit filled Christian can believe such nonsense as the pre-trip Rapture doctrine.

Notice that the same coming by which the Lord gathers His people at the resurrection/rapture, is also the same coming that He destroys the antichrist.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


The complete end of the pre-trib rapture nonsense in one simple paragraph.

The coming of the Lord to resurrect and rapture His people is the very same coming of the Lord that destroys the antichrist.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I have to change that to pre-wrath.

Here's a look at pre-wrath -

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Both the dead in Christ who are resurrected first, and those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air, on His way down to Jerusalem, to take His Thrown, just before He scorches the earth, and those left there... at His coming.


The second coming.


JLB