Did early Christians ever understand grace?

[jonahmano]

Today I was hearing by a preacher - salvation is a gift, you dont have to do any thing. Even if you dont read the bible or pray or attend a fellowship still you can make it to heaven. Once you accept Jesus then salvation part is finished and all things done after that are rewards. Even he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ. Now lets assume that everything he says is true but a question remains in my heart.

Why would early believers have to endure so much persecution? They should have secretly believed
Christ and Escape persecution.

Or is that the early believers didnt understand that their salvation is only by grace?

 

[Gary]

Today I was hearing by a preacher - salvation is a gift, you dont have to do any thing. Even if you dont read the bible or pray or attend a fellowship still you can make it to heaven. Once you accept Jesus then salvation part is finished and all things done after that are rewards. Even he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ. Now lets assume that everything he says is true but a question remains in my heart.

Why would early believers have to endure so much persecution? They should have secretly believed
Christ and Escape persecution.

Or is that the early believers didnt understand that their salvation is only by grace?

Those early believers understood a lot more than that preacher you were listening to.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ.

Ah yes. The infamous 'do nothing' faith of the Protestant movement (generally speaking, of course).

James, John, Paul, and Ringo say the faith that justifies is the faith that loves. People who do not love are ultimately showing that they do not have the love of God in them by faith in Christ. Either because they never had it, or they walked away from it.

 

[Butch5]

Today I was hearing by a preacher - salvation is a gift, you dont have to do any thing. Even if you dont read the bible or pray or attend a fellowship still you can make it to heaven. Once you accept Jesus then salvation part is finished and all things done after that are rewards. Even he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ. Now lets assume that everything he says is true but a question remains in my heart.

Why would early believers have to endure so much persecution? They should have secretly believed
Christ and Escape persecution.

Or is that the early believers didnt understand that their salvation is only by grace?

The early Christians understood grace but I don't think that preacher you listened to did, I don't think he understood the Scriptures for that matter.

 

[gr8grace3]

Today I was hearing by a preacher - salvation is a gift, you dont have to do any thing. Even if you dont read the bible or pray or attend a fellowship still you can make it to heaven. Once you accept Jesus then salvation part is finished and all things done after that are rewards. Even he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ. Now lets assume that everything he says is true but a question remains in my heart.

Why would early believers have to endure so much persecution? They should have secretly believed
Christ and Escape persecution.

Or is that the early believers didnt understand that their salvation is only by grace?

Who is the preacher?

 

[Willie T]

I go to a church that believes in resting in God's grace more than any other church I have been a part of in my entire life, and it is also the church that is always doing so much more than those other churches, it would make your head spin. Seems like, in Christ, the less you work at Christianity, the more you do God's will.

 

[Adstar]

Today I was hearing by a preacher - salvation is a gift, you dont have to do any thing. Even if you dont read the bible or pray or attend a fellowship still you can make it to heaven. Once you accept Jesus then salvation part is finished and all things done after that are rewards. Even he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ. Now lets assume that everything he says is true but a question remains in my heart.

Why would early believers have to endure so much persecution? They should have secretly believed
Christ and Escape persecution.

Or is that the early believers didnt understand that their salvation is only by grace?

The Grace of God through the Messiah Jesus never granted freedom from persecution or troubles in this world. What it did secure was forgiveness for our sins so that we would be deemed worthy for the promises of Christ. that being eternal life with Jesus after death. Jesus make it clear that we would suffer persecution and tribulation in this world. He said we would be hated.

John 16:
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

[Sinthesis]

Today I was hearing by a preacher - salvation is a gift, you dont have to do any thing. Even if you dont read the bible or pray or attend a fellowship still you can make it to heaven. Once you accept Jesus then salvation part is finished and all things done after that are rewards. Even he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ. Now lets assume that everything he says is true but a question remains in my heart.

Why would early believers have to endure so much persecution? They should have secretly believed
Christ and Escape persecution.

Or is that the early believers didnt understand that their salvation is only by grace?

If one who is supposedly under Grace is primarily concerned with working out their own worldly welfare, I would think they have actually rejected Grace and are still living according to their works.

2Ti 2:12 - If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[FreeGrace]

Today I was hearing by a preacher - salvation is a gift, you dont have to do any thing. Even if you dont read the bible or pray or attend a fellowship still you can make it to heaven. Once you accept Jesus then salvation part is finished and all things done after that are rewards. Even he translates that working out salvation with fear and trembling is nothing but just believing in Christ. Now lets assume that everything he says is true but a question remains in my heart.

Why would early believers have to endure so much persecution? They should have secretly believed
Christ and Escape persecution.

First, like the preacher said, they endured so much for eternal reward. Second, there is no promise in Scripture that those who believe will escape persecution. Just the opposite.

Or is that the early believers didnt understand that their salvation is only by grace?

They weren't working for salvation. They were working for great eternal reward. It is sad that today so few pastors really understand grace for salvation, and "making every effort" for eternal rewards.

 

[stovebolts]

If one who is supposedly under Grace is primarily concerned with working out their own worldly welfare, I would think they have actually rejected Grace and are still living according to their works.

2Ti 2:12 - If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Sinthesis]

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Working out what Jesus expects of His saved members is not the same as working out how much you can deny Christ to the world in order to save yourself from persecution.

Mat 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[stovebolts]

Working out what Jesus expects of His saved members is not the same as working out how much you can deny Christ to the world in order to save yourself from persecution.

Mat 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Good point

 

[jonahmano]

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Now for this the preacher replies with this one John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you have any reply for this?

 

[Eugene]

Working out our salvation after being born of God is learning with the God of Peace's leading to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. Having received Christ as our Savior we already have been delivered from the penalty of sin, and in the future in the presence of Jesus we will indeed be delivered from any semblance of sin.

Maybe you can associate an example of Israel finally entering Canaan many think is a picture of entering heaven, but no, we will not have to fight there to obtain our inheritance. Their's was the opportunity of entering into all that God had purchased for them through His own blood here on earth.

 

[FreeGrace]

Working out our salvation after being born of God is learning with the God of Peace's leading to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. Having received Christ as our Savior we already have been delivered from the penalty of sin, and in the future in the presence of Jesus we will indeed be delivered from any semblance of sin.

Maybe you can associate an example of Israel finally entering Canaan many think is a picture of entering heaven, but no, we will not have to fight there to obtain our inheritance. Their's was the opportunity of entering into all that God had purchased for them through His own blood here on earth.

 

[stovebolts]

Now for this the preacher replies with this one John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you have any reply for this?

Sounds to me like we've got some free will...
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[Sinthesis]

Working out our salvation after being born of God is learning with the God of Peace's leading to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. Having received Christ as our Savior we already have been delivered from the penalty of sin, and in the future in the presence of Jesus we will indeed be delivered from any semblance of sin.

Maybe you can associate an example of Israel finally entering Canaan many think is a picture of entering heaven, but no, we will not have to fight there to obtain our inheritance. Their's was the opportunity of entering into all that God had purchased for them through His own blood here on earth.

I look at 'working out our salvation' as 'exercising our salvation'. As saved Christians, we are released from the letter of the law because our sins are covered through the free gift of Grace. We exercise our salvation by following the Spirit so that our lives are built up in a way that promotes God's plan amongst others. We don't bury our salvation in the hopes of avoiding persecution. Fear and trembling speak towards the importance of expressing this freedom of action appropriately. A Christian who knows their sin is covered, plays with fire if they believe this gives them a license to sin.

There are many OT pictures of 'entering heaven'. The biggest difference among OT and NT scenarios is seeing the promised land as recompense or inheritance.

 

[Eugene]

I look at 'working out our salvation' as 'exercising our salvation'. As saved Christians, we are released from the letter of the law because our sins are covered through the free gift of Grace. We exercise our salvation by following the Spirit so that our lives are built up in a way that promotes God's plan amongst others. We don't bury our salvation in the hopes of avoiding persecution. Fear and trembling speak towards the importance of expressing this freedom of action appropriately. A Christian who knows their sin is covered, plays with fire if they believe this gives them a license to sin.

There are many OT pictures of 'entering heaven'. The biggest difference among OT and NT scenarios is seeing the promised land as recompense or inheritance.

Dear Brother Sinthesis, your reply brings to mind Rom 6:1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

 

[Deborah13]

I look at 'working out our salvation' as 'exercising our salvation'. As saved Christians, we are released from the letter of the law because our sins are covered through the free gift of Grace. We exercise our salvation by following the Spirit so that our lives are built up in a way that promotes God's plan amongst others. We don't bury our salvation in the hopes of avoiding persecution. Fear and trembling speak towards the importance of expressing this freedom of action appropriately. A Christian who knows their sin is covered, plays with fire if they believe this gives them a license to sin.

Dear Brother Sinthesis, your reply brings to mind Rom 6:1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

:nod and :nod

 

[iLOVE]

When Christians don't know "Grace" they threaten you with "Law"...You better do this - You better do that - You better not say that - God is going to get you. This disconnects them from the "Cross Of Christ".