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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Did early Christians ever understand grace?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
What is grace? It's unmerited favour! period! O.K. now the creator took the form of man and he died on the cross to save the mankind. Is that not grace. Any prominence given to anything apart from the cross of Chirst Crucified is nothing but occult.
A simple illustration can clear this. We know that the President of US has right to pardon any priosoner on a death sentence. Now the prisoner very well knows that President is all capable of forgiving him but if he doesn't give a petition then how can the prisoner be forgiven? The same is with us. We very well know that Jesus can forgive our sins and we do also believe in Him that He is the saviour of the mankind but if we don't repent and turn to Him then how can we expect that He should forgive our sins??
A simple illustration can clear this. We know that the President of US has right to pardon any priosoner on a death sentence. Now the prisoner very well knows that President is all capable of forgiving him but if he doesn't give a petition then how can the prisoner be forgiven? The same is with us. We very well know that Jesus can forgive our sins and we do also believe in Him that He is the saviour of the mankind but if we don't repent and turn to Him then how can we expect that He should forgive our sins??
iLOVE
Member
The scripture says curse is any person that trust in flesh.
veryberry
Member
Because that is not what God said. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the greek. Repenting and turning to him is a false gospel and saves no one.
The Bible says a lot of things and we would do well to quote them all for a full and proper understanding. Here are just two more of those things:
Act 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (ESV)
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. (ESV)
It very much seems that repenting, confessing Jesus is Lord (God), and truly believing that God raised Jesus from the dead are necessary conditions for salvation. Or do you think that Peter and Paul are wrong?
I don't understand why would you say like that. The whole old testament teaches that God's desire was man to repent and turn back to Him. Even Jesus in His days of ministering to people told them to Repent for the kingdom is near. On the day of Pentecost, Peter's first reply of the Question "What shall we do?" was Repent. Then how do you say that Repentance is a false gospel.
veryberry
Member
It depends on what you mean by repent. What do you mean by repent? If it is "turn from sin" then yes, that is a false gospel. For while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Repenting of dead works may not make you righteous before God, but it will save you on the Day of Wrath and show you to have the righteousness that comes by faith apart from works.
I don't understand why you want to complicate a simple thing. Man went away from God because of his disobedience. Repentance is nothing but turning away from your way to God's way because you understood what God has done to mankind by sending is own Son to die on the cross.
How does turning away from sin becomes a false gospel? Living a godly life is an evidence of commitment to God. And that's nothing but repentance.
If there is another grace of God for salvation other than the favour done by God sending His own to die on the cross then that grace is an "OCCULT" GRACE
veryberry
Member
I am saved from the day of wrath through Christ Jesus. My works have no part in the matter, for my works of righteousness is nothing but filthy rags. It is through Christ Jesus, that I am justified unto eternal life, and am fully sanctified.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I'm guessing when turning away from sin to be saved is misunderstood to be a works gospel.
veryberry
Member
Works of the flesh saves no one. If a person is relying on their ability to make themselves worthy(turning from sin), then that person is not saved. Hell will be full of self righteous people. It's really not complicated. Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. It is Christ who did the work.
Jethro Bodine
Member
You've got a surprise waiting for you, then.
Christ will measure your justification apart from works by your works.
Not because those works make you righteous before God, but because those works are the expected and obligatory footprints of the faith that justifies apart from works.
Jethro Bodine
Member
You'll have to clarify if you mean works 'save' no one, or works 'justify' no one. Which one do you mean?
Yeah the ability to choose between "Life" and "Death" is necessary for a person to get saved and if you think even that is work then God save you. Christ did the work but what are you going to do? Just believe and get off with your own worldly affairs?
veryberry
Member
My works, works that I produce, whether good or bad, have no merit in my standing before God, before or after justification. My works are fruit unto death.
so you are concluding that doesn't matter whether I live a godly life or not but still I will make to heaven because I have not merit in standing before God. So do you also agree that it's God responsibility of your salvation and you have no role in it?
veryberry
Member
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
But according to you NOT continuing in sin is work because in the book of Ephesians Paul instructs us to do this and don't do that. And according to your concept all those are "WORKS"
veryberry
Member
As it is written, Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquites are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.