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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Did God create hell?
- Thread starter Grazer
- Start date
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
- Aug 9, 2012
- 4,786
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It exists, so yes, God created it. Jesus explains its purpose in Matthew.
Matthew 25 NASB
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
The Greek hetoimazo, translated "prepared" means "to make ready." It is the final resting place of Satan and the rebellious angels thrown out of heaven with him. Many make the mistake of saying that was the original purpose of hell, but God also decided to make it available for the sinners of this world. That interpretation comes from this verse, but it is incorrect. Nothing in that verse says that was the only original purpose for hell, only that it is also the resting place of Satan and the other evil spirits, as well as that for sinners who do not come to know Christ in this life.41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Hell is, essentially, the only place in the universe that is totally devoid of God's presence. All good things come from Him, we come to understand that when all of these things, including God's influence, goodness, and His attributes are totally removed, all that remains is utter destruction, death, chaos, fear, despair, evil, and hatred. Once God absents Himself, all good things go with Him, and that is why hell is utter destruction and despair.
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Hell (gehenna fire, the reward of the wicked) does not exist at this present moment. It occurs at the end of the age when all the incorrigibly wicked are burned up and the earth is purified by fire. The present day idea of an ever burning hell comes from Dante Alighieri's interpretation of pagan concepts of hell in his book The Divine Comedy.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
- Aug 9, 2012
- 4,786
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The story of Lazarus and the rich man belies this view.
The story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable and the point of it is...
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
Luk 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
Do you hold that Luke 16 is a parable?
Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Christ spoke to them in parables. Why?
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Arch Angle
Member
- Feb 3, 2011
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yes,
the universe created the human mind. That is the "lock Box"
the universe created the human mind. That is the "lock Box"
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
- Aug 9, 2012
- 4,786
- 1
Sorry, but that too is wrong. Jesus uses the proper name of Lazarus, an indication of a fact-based story. Therefore it is a true event of which Jesus speaks. Also, the structure of a parable is a contrast. This story has no contrast. It consists of facts only Jesus could know, and it recounts the reality of heaven and hell, and what is required for us to believe: Simple faith.
G
Guest
Guest
Yes, God created hell but it was never meant for souls of people. Everyone has a choice.
beartheweak
Member
- Feb 1, 2013
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At the moment, I can't speak as definitively about this subject as others, but from what I have gathered so far, your question makes a false assumption... that hell is mentioned in the bible (at least in the way that you are using it). I may be wrong, but I have found good evidence that "Hell", when mentioned in the Old Testament is a place that everyone goes to. I get this absurd sounding interpretation from research about what the Hebrew word for "Hell" is... and that is "Sheol". When Sheol is used in the OT, it refers to a place that both the righteous and unrighteous will one day go into (when they die). Sheol is just a place for the dead (all the dead). It appears to be a place of unconscious waiting (until judgement day). The synonymous usage of Sheol in the New Testament is the Greek word "Hades". Hades is the same place as Sheol. Additionally, a place called "Gehenna" is mentioned in the New Testament. Gehenna is sometimes translated as "Hell" by bibles (but not always). Gehenna was a real place and was a garbage dump where criminal or diseased bodies and trash were thrown and burnt up in a fire that was continually kept burning (probably using sulfur). In the NT, the "lake of fire" is the figurative way of addressing Gehenna. Gehenna is used as a way to describe (and even such as an alias for) the lake of fire that the unrighteous (unbelievers) will be thrown into by God on judgement day. However, what I am trying to determine is 1) if the lake of fire is a purification process, after which point you are then sent to Heaven for eternity (Universalism), 2) if the lake of fire is a place where the unrighteous souls are burnt up and literally killed ("fear not man who can destroy only body, but fear God who can destroy both soul and body"), or 3) if the lake of fire is an eternal torment.
As absurd as at least two of those sound, each side has pretty convincing arguments from (yes) a biblical perspective.
As absurd as at least two of those sound, each side has pretty convincing arguments from (yes) a biblical perspective.
G
Guest
Guest
False doctrine everyone be aware, born again Christians cannot go to hell.
Look guys, it's Vanguard Pt 2...http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49281&page=1
The only difference is that beartheweak thinks everyone is going to hell. :toofunny
G
Guest
Guest
False doctrine, there is no 'purification process'. Also, the lake of fire is an eternal torment.
Colossians 1
11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for all endurance and patience, with joy 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has enabled you to share in the saints’ inheritance in the light. 13 He has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son He loves. 14 We have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, in Him.
The Centrality of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
16 For everything was created by Him,
in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or rulers or authorities—
all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things,
and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church;
He is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead,
so that He might come to have
first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased to have
all His fullness dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile
everything to Himself
by making peace
through the blood of His cross—
whether things on earth or things in heaven.
21 Once you were alienated and hostile in your minds because of your evil actions. 22 But now He has reconciled you by His physical body through His death, to present you holy, faultless, and blameless before Him— 23 if indeed you remain grounded and steadfast in the faith and are not shifted away from the hope of the gospel that you heard. This gospel has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and I, Paul, have become a servant of it.
"To accuse God of injustice for sentencing sinners to hell is the height of arrogance and audacity." Tommy Clayton
Hebrews 10
28 If anyone disregards Moses’ law, he dies without mercy, based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think one will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God, regarded as profane the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the One who has said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay, and again, The Lord will judge His people. 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for all endurance and patience, with joy 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has enabled you to share in the saints’ inheritance in the light. 13 He has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son He loves. 14 We have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, in Him.
The Centrality of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
16 For everything was created by Him,
in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or rulers or authorities—
all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things,
and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church;
He is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead,
so that He might come to have
first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased to have
all His fullness dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile
everything to Himself
by making peace
through the blood of His cross—
whether things on earth or things in heaven.
21 Once you were alienated and hostile in your minds because of your evil actions. 22 But now He has reconciled you by His physical body through His death, to present you holy, faultless, and blameless before Him— 23 if indeed you remain grounded and steadfast in the faith and are not shifted away from the hope of the gospel that you heard. This gospel has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and I, Paul, have become a servant of it.
"To accuse God of injustice for sentencing sinners to hell is the height of arrogance and audacity." Tommy Clayton
Hebrews 10
28 If anyone disregards Moses’ law, he dies without mercy, based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think one will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God, regarded as profane the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the One who has said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay, and again, The Lord will judge His people. 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
Hell or gehenna does not exsist yet. It is the lake of fire that will be prepared for ha Shatan and his angels. All those who are not children of God will be cast into this place as well and will eventually cease to exsist...this is the second death.
Matthew 25:46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
"Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word eternal or everlasting. There are people who would like to redefine that word aionios and say, "Well, it doesn't really mean forever." But if you do that with hell, you've just done it with heaven, because the same word is used to describe both. If there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven. And I'll go one beyond that. The same word is used to describe God. And so if there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven, nor is there an everlasting God. It is clear that God is eternal; and, therefore, that heaven is eternal, and so is hell." (John MacArthur, “A Testimony of One Surprised to Be in Hell, Part 2”)
1 Peter 5:10 Now the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will personally restore, establish, strengthen, and support you after you have suffered a little.
"Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word eternal or everlasting. There are people who would like to redefine that word aionios and say, "Well, it doesn't really mean forever." But if you do that with hell, you've just done it with heaven, because the same word is used to describe both. If there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven. And I'll go one beyond that. The same word is used to describe God. And so if there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven, nor is there an everlasting God. It is clear that God is eternal; and, therefore, that heaven is eternal, and so is hell." (John MacArthur, “A Testimony of One Surprised to Be in Hell, Part 2”)
1 Peter 5:10 Now the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will personally restore, establish, strengthen, and support you after you have suffered a little.
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Before i go into some scripture to support the annihilation of the unrighteous in Hell i would like to ask you some questions. Does it bother you that a loving God would send someone who dies not being a Christian into a state of unimaginable torment...a torture chamber if you will not for a year or two but for ever and ever with no hope of ever having that unimaginable pain and suffering to simply stop? Don't you think eternal torture for eternity is a little excessive? Don't you think that eventually God would be satisfied that justice is served? Jesus told us to forgive our enemies and then he turns around and tortures them for eternity??? How do you reconcile these things in your mind??
I think it's the height of arrogance and pride that allows a created being to question the Holiness of God and His righteous judgement. I don't judge God!
G
Guest
Guest
Forgiveness from man and forgiveness from God are two completely different things. How do you reconcile these things in your mind??
G
Guest
Guest
Hi Grazer, it's quite simple in fact. So what's the difference between forgiveness from man and forgiveness from God?
