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Did God create sin?

N

n2thelight

Member
Many people seem to think that God created evil,I say He didn't because He can't,as there is no evil in Him....Any thoughts?

Topic should have read evil......
 
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God created mankind in his image. As His part of his creation he gave us freewill.

I'm not going to try and play God here but my suspicion is that if we were to create a creation that we could love and that would love us in return, then we would want the creation to love us. Not just us as creator to switch the "love and obedient" switch.

If mankind therefore has exercised freewill, some will love and worship God and others will turn away and sin. Evil is a result of sin. Evil is a creation of mankind's sinful nature.

Yet despite all the sin and related evil in the world God still loves us and will forgive us and give us eternal life with Him. How can a God like that create evil?
 
A couple of things come to mind...
"When you dig a hole you inadvertently create a pile."
-Ian Pringle
​
Not sure if that actually has anything to do with this, but it just sounds so freaking wise that I had to post it! :lol

Also, let's look at this in reverse, a little...

Does the government create crime? No (well yes, but let's keep it simple :thumbsup)

Does the government define crime? Yes.

Does that make them responsible for crime? No, it just means they have acknowledged certain boundaries beyond which a person is acting such a reprehensible way they must be punished in order to prevent others from doing likewise.
 
n2thelight

Who created evil? The controversy of the ages. It depends on who defines what constitutes evil. If one believes that God defines evil, then God can't be the author of evil. God merely defines the boundaries of evil from the perspective of his own nature. You should check out the thoughts of two excellent Christian Philosophers. Ravi Zacharias and William Lane Craig, both of which have material on YouTube.

FC
 
n2thelight said:
Many people seem to think that God created evil,I say He didn't because He can't,as there is no evil in Him....Any thoughts?

Topic should have read evil......
Click to expand...
When God formed the light He created darkness, seperating the two. Sin is a direction away from God wherein we walk contrary to Love Whom God is. Therefore you are correct in saying there is no evil in God yet incorrect in saying He did not create it.
 
I completely agree with those that say God did not create evil or sin. He defined it. I have no problem with that at all. After all he is God and he has the right to define wickedness and sin. That's it, we have no authority to argue or say otherwise. God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
 
The problem with saying God did not create evil is that it appears to be said out of trepidation. God certainly can use evil for good and thereby justify it's existence. Hope, charity, grace, mercy are just some of the attributes we would not know without experiencing evil. Scripture clearly says He formed the light and created darkness. Why we should be afraid to admit this seems to have more to do with our corrupt thinking than with any sound reasoning.
 
Childeye

Just because you have an interpretation doesn't mean those who disagree with you have corrupt thinking.

The darkness that is part of God's creation is not evil. It is physical darkness that is in contrast to physical light. Since God does nothing in a haphazard way, it can be assumed that he created physical darkness for a purpose. It won't be that way in the New Jerusalem. Evil is called darkness as something that is in contrast to the light of the Life of God. Certainly doesn't mean that God created evil.

FC
 
Former Christian said:
Childeye

Just because you have an interpretation doesn't mean those who disagree with you have corrupt thinking.

The darkness that is part of God's creation is not evil. It is physical darkness that is in contrast to physical light. Since God does nothing in a haphazard way, it can be assumed that he created physical darkness for a purpose. It won't be that way in the New Jerusalem. Evil is called darkness as something that is in contrast to the light of the Life of God. Certainly doesn't mean that God created evil.

FC
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You confound me with first saying darkness is not evil then saying it is in contrast to Light of the life of God. I equate Love, Truth, Light, God as all the same. Scripture says God is light, God is Truth, God is Love. The reason I find it corrupt thinking that God did not create evil is because He created all things. To the pure of heart all things are pure. Can you provide any basis for the proposition that God did not create evil?
 
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Childeye

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you.

I believe that the physical creation is created in such a way as to help us to understand Spiritual reality. Thus the contrast between light and darkness is intended to help us understand the light and darkness that exists in the Spiritual realm. There is no indication in the Bible that darkness always existed in the Spiritual realm, nor is there any indication that it will exist after the return of Christ, unless one considers hell to be darkness. Zoroastrianism has an idea that reality is dual in nature so that there are two Gods, one of light and one of darkness. Whether or not it is an imitation of what the Bible teaches I don’t know. But the similarity is there.

To think that God created evil because he created all things is an interesting way to look at it. The problem that I have with that idea is that we are contrasting not what is created , but nature. In the physical realm, the contrast is between created realities. So in the physical realm light and darkness are created realities. But in the Spiritual realm it is not a matter of created realities. It is a matter of nature. The nature of God is light. The nature of evil as personified in Satan is darkness. Thus to say that God is the creator of evil is to say that the nature of God is evil or that God has a dual nature that is both light and darkness, evil and anti evil. Do you see what I’m saying?

In your idea, do you recognize the difference between the physical realm and the Spiritual realm?

FC
 
Former Christian said:
Childeye

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you.

I believe that the physical creation is created in such a way as to help us to understand Spiritual reality. Thus the contrast between light and darkness is intended to help us understand the light and darkness that exists in the Spiritual realm. There is no indication in the Bible that darkness always existed in the Spiritual realm, nor is there any indication that it will exist after the return of Christ, unless one considers hell to be darkness. Zoroastrianism has an idea that reality is dual in nature so that there are two Gods, one of light and one of darkness. Whether or not it is an imitation of what the Bible teaches I don’t know. But the similarity is there.

To think that God created evil because he created all things is an interesting way to look at it. The problem that I have with that idea is that we are contrasting not what is created , but nature. In the physical realm, the contrast is between created realities. So in the physical realm light and darkness are created realities. But in the Spiritual realm it is not a matter of created realities. It is a matter of nature. The nature of God is light. The nature of evil as personified in Satan is darkness. Thus to say that God is the creator of evil is to say that the nature of God is evil or that God has a dual nature that is both light and darkness, evil and anti evil. Do you see what I’m saying?

In your idea, do you recognize the difference between the physical realm and the Spiritual realm?

FC
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Oh I do see what you're saying. By the way I like your moniker "former Christian" applied on a Christian Forum. Quite seductive with a healthy sense of rebellion.

Yes I'm sure everything physical has it's applications spiritually or visa versa. Satan is a created being and his nature is vanity. Certainly scripture paints God as both left and right handed. He gives , He takes. His nature is what it is going to be because He says I am that I am, whether we like it or not. What I am saying is perhaps the evil is more in our perception of His giving and taking. Referance to Job. We humans can complain forever in the lust that is insatiated. Satan could be construed as darkness when compared to that which is insatiable. In the end he consumes himself with his own mouth speaking vanities. Still it is not the power of life and death just because I can step on a bug or not. God had to create evil. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil are indicative of that so that He might destroy vanity. Even physical darkness is composed of antimatter or dark matter. Truth could not be equivalent to lies in context since one had to precede the other. Lies have no purpose withour Truth. Therefore how can we come to worship Him in Truth without understanding that which is apart from His nature.
 
Childeye

Well, without saying that I agree with you, I have to say that your idea has points of interest. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil for example. And the way you composed these two sentences, “Satan could be construed as darkness when compared to that which is insatiable. In the end he consumes himself with his own mouth speaking vanities.†would make a good basis for a good movie under different circumstances. Of course Hollywood would ruin it by changing it just because it has a Christian element in it.

The common idea of Genesis 1 & 2 is that it refers to the creation of the universe and then the creation of the earth. One of the reasons that I have never been able to accept that interpretation is because Satan comes out of nowhere in the form of a snake, or more apt a lizard since it doesn’t crawl on its belly until after the fall. To the point, there is no record of the creation of Satan in this so called creation account of the universe. And what was created was called good. This implies to me that this creation was of the earth and its immediate surroundings, and it is from the perspective of one standing on the earth. I think the Gap Theory may have come about because of that realization, not just a way to deal with Evolutionism. You know, that Hebrew word that is translated as Heavens in Genesis 1:1 is translated as air or sky in 1:28 & 30. Well, replace Heavens with sky in all of the verses in those two chapters and see how it changes the whole meaning. It wouldn’t be the first time a translation was the result of preconceived notions.

But back to the creation of evil. I think that evil already existed by the time of the creation of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge was put there to complete something preknown by God, that humanity couldn’t resist temptation. Ephesians does say that what Jesus would do as far as redemption was determined before the foundation of the world. Your idea of the existence of evil destroying vanity fits in well with that. Whether or not God created evil, there is good reason to believe that evil has its purpose in the present economy of God.

PC
 
Pard said:
A couple of things come to mind...
"When you dig a hole you inadvertently create a pile."
-Ian Pringle
​
Not sure if that actually has anything to do with this, but it just sounds so freaking wise that I had to post it! :lol
Click to expand...

Too cool! I needed the laugh!


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
Former Christian said:
Childeye

Well, without saying that I agree with you, I have to say that your idea has points of interest. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil for example. And the way you composed these two sentences, “Satan could be construed as darkness when compared to that which is insatiable. In the end he consumes himself with his own mouth speaking vanities.” would make a good basis for a good movie under different circumstances. Of course Hollywood would ruin it by changing it just because it has a Christian element in it.

The common idea of Genesis 1 & 2 is that it refers to the creation of the universe and then the creation of the earth. One of the reasons that I have never been able to accept that interpretation is because Satan comes out of nowhere in the form of a snake, or more apt a lizard since it doesn’t crawl on its belly until after the fall. To the point, there is no record of the creation of Satan in this so called creation account of the universe. And what was created was called good. This implies to me that this creation was of the earth and its immediate surroundings, and it is from the perspective of one standing on the earth. I think the Gap Theory may have come about because of that realization, not just a way to deal with Evolutionism. You know, that Hebrew word that is translated as Heavens in Genesis 1:1 is translated as air or sky in 1:28 & 30. Well, replace Heavens with sky in all of the verses in those two chapters and see how it changes the whole meaning. It wouldn’t be the first time a translation was the result of preconceived notions.

But back to the creation of evil. I think that evil already existed by the time of the creation of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge was put there to complete something preknown by God, that humanity couldn’t resist temptation. Ephesians does say that what Jesus would do as far as redemption was determined before the foundation of the world. Your idea of the existence of evil destroying vanity fits in well with that. Whether or not God created evil, there is good reason to believe that evil has its purpose in the present economy of God.

PC
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The existence of evil could not have preceded God is the main point I would try to convey for the sake of a grounded reasoning. Lies had to come after Truth. Light\Love exist eternal while evil has a beginning and will cease to exist. One serves the other. Light can exist without darkness, but darkness is a nonexistence whose only purpose is to define light. This is not a complicated reasoning.

I agree that God foresaw He would be taken for granted and prepared a way out. It is the same as Eve not esteeming Adam the same way Adam esteemed Eve. Whose fault is it? The devil is the adversary between us and God, playing both sides against each other when it's no one's fault. God being moved to find fault in man and man being moved to find fault with God is Satan's works. Christ is the perfect Image of God to man and the perfect image of man to God erasing all enmity. Is it not plausible that God created the perfect backdrop to glorify Himself? Of course He did it. Certainly we did not concieve of it.
 
Free said:
This is what I tend to lean towards. In order to truly be able to love God, man must have the ability to choose between loving or not loving God. As soon as the choice is made to not love him, evil is introduced.



Agreed.


:thumbsup Just about to jump into one of Ravi's books.
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I must say that to Love God was never my choice. I was moved by revelation of Who He Is. I would be patronizing God for me to say I chose to love Him, like the prodigal son saying he came back out of his benevolence. I'll believe you chose to love Him when you tell me what was your other option, death? It's like claiming you decided to Love the all powerful, the all knowing, Who laid down His life on a cross of torture for you when you were already dead in sin, because you had the option of staying dead. Is this not disingenuious? What viable option is there compared to the Truth in all honesty?
 
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