Did Jesus Rise On Sunday ?

[tobewell]

When Paul writes that Christ was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures how do you calculate so that He was entombed three nights?

 

[TOG]

I see your point about Jonah but what about Paul where he writes:

"The Resurrection of Christ

…3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.…"


Your point about spices is in John 19

"The Burial of Jesus

…39Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight.

40So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews.

41Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been laid.…"

You answered neither of my questions.

1. How do you find three nights between Friday evening and Sunday morning?
2. How do you fit two Sabbaths with a work day between them into the period between Friday evening and Sunday morning?

If you can answer those two questions, then I will reply to your comments about Paul and the burial.

The TOG​

 

[TOG]

When Paul writes that Christ was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures how do you calculate so that He was entombed three nights?

Wednesday - Jesus crucified.
Wednesday night - First night
Thursday - First day
Thursday night - Second night
Friday - Second day
Friday night - Third night
Saturday - Third day

Thursday was the first day of Unleavened Bread, and was a Sabbath. Friday was a work day, as usual. Saturday was the weekly Sabbath. Jesus was buried close to sunset on Wednesday evening, and rose at about the same time on Saturday evening. In this scenario, we have everything the Bible mentions:

• Jesus was a full three days and three nights in the heart of the earth
• Jesus rose on the third day
• Jesus rose after three days
• There are two Sabbaths with a work day between them

You have none of that in the Friday-Sunday scenario.

The TOG​

 

[tobewell]

You answered neither of my questions.

1. How do you find three nights between Friday evening and Sunday morning?
2. How do you fit two Sabbaths with a work day between them into the period between Friday evening and Sunday morning?

If you can answer those two questions, then I will reply to your comments about Paul and the burial.

The TOG​

I don't find three nights, but I explained the three days according to how Jews specify days. That is factual historical record.

The year that Christ died, Passover (a movable day of the week but always on a particular date) coincided with the Sabbath.

 

[tobewell]

Your timeline conflicts with Scripture here:

"The Resurrection

1Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

2And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.…


Sabbath is over Saturday evening as the evening stars rise.

The first day of the week for Jews is Sunday.

 

[Deborah13]

Thanks Deborah13 for your reply.

The Passover feast of unleavened bread occurred prior to Jesus being taken to the cross. Was the first day of the feast the first day of the week when Jesus rose?

Mat 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
Mat 26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
Mat 26:20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.

Jesus and His disciples had already eaten the Passover and to me, they can’t be speaking of Jesus’ death, although I might be missing something.
Luk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

And again, scripture tells us in Mark 16:9 that Jesus was risen early the first day of the week.

Luke 23:54 - in the Greek the word translated as 'drew on' mean to light, to dawn.
I understand this as....
He died on the day that the lamb was prepared for the Passover and the Passover Sabbath was dawning. Which was actually in the evening.

Jesus rose sometime after sunset on what we call Saturday.
Anytime after sunset is the first day of the week, Sunday.


TOG lines out the only way to get 3 full days and 3 full nights. But even if He died on Friday all we can get is one full night and one partial night.

 

[tobewell]

When Passover falls on Saturday Sabbath that day is called a "Great Sabbath" .

"
The feast of the Passover begins on the fourteenth day of Nisan (a lunar month which roughly corresponds with the latter part of March and the first part of April) and ends with the twenty-first. The Jews now, as in ancient times, make elaborate preparations for the festival. Every house is subjected to a thorough spring cleaning.

The Saturday preceding the day of the Pasch (fifteenth) is called a "Great Sabbath", because it is supposed that the tenth day of the month Abib (or Nisan) — when the Israelites were to select the Paschal lambs, before their deliverance from Egypt — fell on a Sabbath. On this Sabbath, the day of the following week on which the Passover is to fall is solemnly announced."

 

[TOG]

I don't find three nights

If there are not three nights, then Jesus' prophesy wasn't fulfilled. That would make him a false prophet. I'm not ready to believe that. Jesus said there would be three nights, so there must have been three nights. If there weren't, then it's your calculations that are wrong, not Jesus.

but I explained the three days according to how Jews specify days.

No, you explained three days according to how Christians claim Jews counted days. I've been hearing people say that for over 40 years (the time I've been a Christian), but not once have I heard or seen anyone provide a source that supports that claim. Do you have one?

The year that Christ died, Passover (a movable day of the week but always on a particular date) coincided with the Sabbath.

Impossible. Passover is the 14th of Aviv. The first day of Unleavened Bread is the 15th, and is a Sabbath. The 14th is not a Sabbath. The Bible tells us that the 14th that year was the Preparation day - the day before the Sabbath, not the Sabbath itself. You most likely meant to say that the first day of Unleavened Bread was on the Sabbath. But that doesn't fit either, because of the lack of a third night.

Now that you've answered my first question (by admitting that you can't find a third night), how about the second one? How do you fit two Sabbaths with a work day between them into your scenario?

The TOG​

 

[tobewell]

Luke 23:54 - in the Greek the word translated as 'drew on' mean to light, to dawn.
I understand this as....
He died on the day that the lamb was prepared for the Passover and the Passover Sabbath was dawning. Which was actually in the evening.

Jesus rose sometime after sunset on what we call Saturday.
Anytime after sunset is the first day of the week, Sunday.


TOG lines out the only way to get 3 full days and 3 full nights. But even if He died on Friday all we can get is one full night and one partial night.

We must not read a 200 year old book (New Testament) forcing our culturally understanding upon it.

The Apostle's wrote as cultural Jews and The Early Church held to what they wrote and did not change Jewish text to fit modern interpretations of time and days.

 

[TOG]

Your timeline conflicts with Scripture here:

"The Resurrection

1Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

2And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.…


Sabbath is over Saturday evening as the evening stars rise.

The first day of the week for Jews is Sunday.

How exactly does this conflict with my time line?

The TOG​

 

[tobewell]

If there are not three nights, then Jesus' prophesy wasn't fulfilled. That would make him a false prophet. I'm not ready to believe that. Jesus said there would be three nights, so there must have been three nights. If there weren't, then it's your calculations that are wrong, not Jesus.



No, you explained three days according to how Christians claim Jews counted days. I've been hearing people say that for over 40 years (the time I've been a Christian), but not once have I heard or seen anyone provide a source that supports that claim. Do you have one?



Impossible. Passover is the 14th of Aviv. The first day of Unleavened Bread is the 15th, and is a Sabbath. The 14th is not a Sabbath. The Bible tells us that the 14th that year was the Preparation day - the day before the Sabbath, not the Sabbath itself. You most likely meant to say that the first day of Unleavened Bread was on the Sabbath. But that doesn't fit either, because of the lack of a third night.

Now that you've answered my first question (by admitting that you can't find a third night), how about the second one? How do you fit two Sabbaths with a work day between them into your scenario?

The TOG​

Not impossible. Passover falls on different days of the week but on the same day each year depending on the lunar cycle.

Sabbath is always on Saturday.

 

[tobewell]

How exactly does this conflict with my time line?

The TOG​

According to your timeline, what day is the Resurrection?

 

[TOG]

When Passover falls on Saturday Sabbath that day is called a "Great Sabbath" .

"
The feast of the Passover begins on the fourteenth day of Nisan (a lunar month which roughly corresponds with the latter part of March and the first part of April) and ends with the twenty-first. The Jews now, as in ancient times, make elaborate preparations for the festival. Every house is subjected to a thorough spring cleaning.

The Saturday preceding the day of the Pasch (fifteenth) is called a "Great Sabbath", because it is supposed that the tenth day of the month Abib (or Nisan) — when the Israelites were to select the Paschal lambs, before their deliverance from Egypt — fell on a Sabbath. On this Sabbath, the day of the following week on which the Passover is to fall is solemnly announced."

You're supposed to cite your sources when you quote someone else. By hovering my mouse over the links, I see you are getting your information from newadvent.org, which is the Catholic Encyclopedia online. We are talking about how Jews celebrated a Jewish festival and what Jewish customs were in the first century. You'll have to forgive me, but considering how relations between Jews and the Catholic church have been throughout history, I don't think a Catholic encyclopedia is the best source of information. Do you have a Jewish source for this information? I'll do a word search in my Talmud and let you know what I find, but if you know a source, I'd like to hear what it is.

The TOG​

 

[jasonc]

arguing with one who know the torah that well on this isn't wise.

 

[jasonc]

You're supposed to cite your sources when you quote someone else. By hovering my mouse over the links, I see you are getting your information from newadvent.org, which is the Catholic Encyclopedia online. We are talking about how Jews celebrated a Jewish festival and what Jewish customs were in the first century. You'll have to forgive me, but considering how relations between Jews and the Catholic church have been throughout history, I don't think a Catholic encyclopedia is the best source of information. Do you have a Jewish source for this information? I'll do a word search in my Talmud and let you know what I find, but if you know a source, I'd like to hear what it is.

The TOG​

you have the Talmud on a hyperlink? which sect? I tend to use the chassidics but all of them will be the same on this.

btw chag shameach.

 

[tobewell]

Sorry about that, I failed to cite the source. I'll find a Jewish source for an explanation of Great Sabbath.

 

[TOG]

We must not read a 200 year old book (New Testament) forcing our culturally understanding upon it.

The Apostle's wrote as cultural Jews and The Early Church held to what they wrote and did not change Jewish text to fit modern interpretations of time and days.

Right. So you might want to stop doing that. Forget about the later tradition of Good Friday and read what it actually says - three days and three nights. It isn't difficult. We know he was already risen when the women came, and we also know that he died in the afternoon and was buried before sunset. Just count three days and three nights backward from Sunday morning and see where you land.

The TOG​

 

[TOG]

According to your timeline, what day is the Resurrection?

How does it conflict with my time line?

The TOG​

 

[TOG]

Not impossible. Passover falls on different days of the week but on the same day each year depending on the lunar cycle.

Sabbath is always on Saturday.

It's impossible that it was on a Sabbath that year. I explained why.

The TOG​

 

[Deborah13]

John 13:26

The last supper was not a Passover Seder. The feast of unleavened bread would not have a sop. However it was a part of the Passover festival because it marked the beginning of the Fast of the Firstborn which Jesus, as Firstborn, observed.

I don't ever remember reading about this thanks.

I don't find three nights, but I explained the three days according to how Jews specify days. That is factual historical record.

The year that Christ died, Passover (a movable day of the week but always on a particular date) coincided with the Sabbath.

Do we believe what a doctrine of men says or do we believe what God's word says?
Gen 1:5 and God calleth to the light `Day,' and to the darkness He hath called `Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning--day one.