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Did Jesus teach election ?

S

savedbygrace57

Guest
This is a very important inquiry, especially in light of the coming Judgment, for it is then that we will find that the words that He spoke [as we read them in scripture] will be a standard or basis of Judgment Jn 12:

46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For it is no good to call Him Lord and do not believe the things He says Matt 7:

26And every one that heareth[ or read] these sayings of mine, and doeth[or believe] them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Yes Jesus taught election, in fact . His very first sermon that we know of in the scriptures He teaches it:

lk 4:

22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

23And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

24And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

25But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

28And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

29And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

30But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

You see, only one widow was chosen to receive the blessing of God, and only one leper was chosen to receive the blessing of God.

And the thing that probably caused the most anger to these His hearers,was that He made it clear that God chose gentiles to bestow these blessing on ,even when their were many in Israel that needed those same blessings..
 
Jesus teaching election:

"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.†- John 3:8

Despite what Armenians believe, they do not control the wind.
 
Absolutely.. that He is the way the truth and the life..

As for us.. He tells us plainly.. if ye shall seek to save your life ye shall lose it.. and if any man comes after Him that they must DENY THEMSELVES, take up their cross and follow Him..

Somehow Calvinists equate this to God choosing them and not Christ..

Go figure..
 
You absolutely failed to address the subject at at hand. Do you or do you not know where the wind, as described in the Lord's metaphor, blows? Do you control it or not?

I didn't say that I controlled it.. did I.. ?

I do know that since Pentecost the Holy Spirit of God has been sent into the world to testify of Christ and to convince the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.. and that HE is that true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world.. I have absolutely no control over that.. although I do embrace that as true by faith in Him.

Doesn't Calvinism teach that this true light only enables specific individuals to believe in Him.. by absolutely nothing that they do.. ?
 
You absolutely failed to address the subject at at hand. Do you or do you not know where the wind, as described in the Lord's metaphor, blows? Do you control it or not?
You do not control the wind but you do control whether or not you have the experience of being born again,your choice, that is why part of the world is saved and part is lost,choice.
 
You do not control the wind but you do control whether or not you have the experience of being born again,your choice, that is why part of the world is saved and part is lost,choice.


Saved and lost are not synonymous with choice. In fact, the Holy Spirit, though Paul, addresses this point directly, ruling out man's choice as the cause of salvation:

It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.


You say man's desire is necessary for salvation to take place. The Bible says otherwise.
 
sam:

but you do control whether or not you have the experience of being born again,

No you dont, you had no choice in your physical generation, and one has no choice in their spiritual generation, if you believe that, you are deceived.
 
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Doesn't Calvinism teach that the true light only enables specific individuals to believe in Him.. by absolutely nothing that they do.. ?

Is this what Calvinists mean by unconditional election..?
 
Saved and lost are not synonymous with choice. In fact, the Holy Spirit, though Paul, addresses this point directly, ruling out man's choice as the cause of salvation:

It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.


You say man's desire is necessary for salvation to take place. The Bible says otherwise.
Well the bible shows that God (Through Jesus ) has availed his grace and mercy to all, so now we have a choice to make. See John 3v16
 
John 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.KJV

John 17:16
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. KJV

John 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; KJV

John 17:23
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. KJV

John 17:24-18:1
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. KJV

Mark 13:26-27
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. KJV

Let us be gentle with the Lambs who the Lord has not given them a heart to understand the election.

They are his babes, though they survive on the milk from the breasts of our Lord. We should not strive with them, or ridicule or contend with them.

Babes in the Lord Jesus do not attack like wolves. The wolf is of the world. He attacks the flock, gnashing on the flock with his teeth. The wolf is an eater of vomit.

Rev 2:17
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. KJV


Joe
 
Doesn't Calvinism teach that the true light only enables specific individuals to believe in Him.. by absolutely nothing that they do.. ?

Is this what Calvinists mean by unconditional election..?

Reformed Theology teaches that people don't choose God until they are born again. When someone accepts the truth, repents, is baptised, and begins to live a righteous life they are doing so because they are saved, not so they can become saved or to ensure that salvation.
 
sam:



No you dont, you had no choice in your physical generation, and one has no choice in their spiritual generation, if you believe that, you are deceived.
Think please! A human cannot cause spiritual regeneration,only God can do that,however a human is able to chose to ask God for salvation or to reject the salvation. Eve had a choice,Cain had a choice, Noah had a choice,Abraham had a choice,the entire bible is a book that says,"chose you this day who you will serve", the Spirit and the bride say come. The idea that humans do not have a choice is an attack against the word of God from cover to cover and is eliteism carried to an incredible extreme. To believe that one is so superior and elite that they are born to be saved regardless, while others are such low class humans that they are born to burn in hell, is ridiculous. Your position would have a little credibility if you admited that you were one of the low class humans born to burn in hell. My question to the eliteist is this,what proof do you have that you are not one of those destined for hell other than your opinion?
 
Well the bible shows that God (Through Jesus ) has availed his grace and mercy to all, so now we have a choice to make. See John 3v16

And in that belief you make man's desire the linchpin of salvation. That is antithetical to what the Holy Spirit, through Paul, says in Romans 9:16. You make the Bible to contradict itself.
 
The idea that humans do not have a choice is an attack against the word of God from cover to cover and is eliteism carried to an incredible extreme. To believe that one is so superior and elite that they are born to be saved regardless, while others are such low class humans that they are born to burn in hell, is ridiculous.

I like to call it... S P E C I A L

All because they have been taught that they're the elect along with the infinitely glorious Lord Jesus Christ..
 
A human cannot cause spiritual regeneration,only God can do that,however a human is able to chose to ask God for salvation or to reject the salvation.

Think about what your are saying. Think about the false assumptions at the root of your Arminianism. The Holy Spirit, through Paul, tells us man's desire has nothing to do with the cause of his salvation:

It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy Rom. 9:16

Since God himself refutes your position, why do you continue to hold it?

Eve had a choice...

Eve was not fallen as we are. She could choose to live righteously or choose to for herself. Fallen man can only choose to live for himself unless God intervenes.

Cain had a choice...

Cain was fallen. Because of the fall he was enslaved to sin. His choices were limited. Therefore, even though he had a will, he did not have free will. He could not do anything he choose to do at any time he choose to do it. He could only choose to do that which was most appealing to him, given the options in front of him. Because of the fall he could only choose to do that which served himself, not God.

Noah had a choice,Abraham had a choice...

They chose to accept God, as all saved people do, after He singled them out.

the entire bible is a book that says,"chose you this day who you will serve", the Spirit and the bride say come.

This really says it all about Arminianism. You believe the bible is all about man and man's actions. That is utterly false. The theme of the Bible, from beginning to end, and in fact the theme of all existence is Jesus and his works. You've got the tail wagging the dog.

The idea that humans do not have a choice is an attack against the word of God from cover to cover and is eliteism carried to an incredible extreme.

No, it's an attack on Arminian theology, which you have falsely accepted as being synonymous with the Bible.

To believe that one is so superior and elite that they are born to be saved regardless, while others are such low class humans that they are born to burn in hell, is ridiculous.

You do no service to your position by misstating what Reform Theology teaches. There is nothing superior about the saved. They are just people. Their election has nothing to do with their character. Nothing. All people are sinful and all deserve to be damned. If God gave justice to all that is exactly what would happen. He has chosen to give mercy to some for his own glorification. You may not like that fact, but that doesn't matter since God is the plumb bob of reality and only what He likes has any value.

Your position would have a little credibility if you admited that you were one of the low class humans born to burn in hell.

But for the grace of God that is exactly where I would be headed. I certainly deserve to be sent there.

Your position would have a little more intellectual honesty if you admitted that you believe you are saved by the virtue of your own wisdom in choosing God, and the superior self-control you put into action in accepting him.

My question to the eliteist is this,what proof do you have that you are not one of those destined for hell other than your opinion?

Ever read the book of James? He lays the proof out pretty succinctly:

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do - James 2:18
 
And that really says it all about what you believe. It's all about what you like, reality notwithstanding.

Yes, IMO Calvinsim is one of the 'special' cases in Christendom.. but you're not alone.. there are all kinds.. like the one true church crowd, they're special.. the Saturday sabbath keepers.. another special case.. there's so many.. JW, Mormons.. they all have their special editions of the scriptures..

So at least you're not alone..
 
I didn't say that I controlled it.. did I.. ?

I do know that since Pentecost the Holy Spirit of God has been sent into the world to testify of Christ and to convince the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.. and that HE is that true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world.. I have absolutely no control over that.. although I do embrace that as true by faith in Him.

Doesn't Calvinism teach that this true light only enables specific individuals to believe in Him.. by absolutely nothing that they do.. ?

I'm not a Cavinist. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think the Calvinist position is that the elect are the shepherds, in other words, the leaders of the church - the men Jesus sent into the world to preach the kingdom and the men he said would come after him.
 
I'm not a Cavinist. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think the Calvinist position is that the elect are the shepherds, in other words, the leaders of the church - the men Jesus sent into the world to preach the kingdom and the men he said would come after him.

No this is not correct.. Calvinsim teaches that God chose certain individuals to be saved unconditionally (no basis at all, known only to God) and that these (who they call the elect) are then enabled by God to believe the gospel, repent, etc etc.. because of irresistable grace..

So anyone who is not the elect (according to them) can't believe, repent, trust in Christ etc etc..

Pretty crazy stuff..
 
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