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Did Mary consent to our salvation?
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
Scripture says soYou say.
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.
Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!
As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!
Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!
Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!
The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!
Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
A person without a mother is an orphan, Jesus said: I would not have you (Christians) orphan, Jn 19:16 “Behold Thy mother”!
You err in thinking something addressed to one disciple applies to everyone else.Scripture says so
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.
Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!
As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!
Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!
Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!
The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!
Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
A person without a mother is an orphan, Jesus said: I would not have you (Christians) orphan, Jn 19:16 “Behold Thy mother”!
How can I accept Mary into my house 2000 years after the fact ?
As spiritual motherYou err in thinking something addressed to one disciple applies to everyone else.
How can I accept Mary into my house 2000 years after the fact ?
Is that more trying to elevate a woman to some spiritual regality ?As spiritual mother
If it is, it has failed.
Mary was just serving God, and needs no elevation.
I would say that "she submitted"...it is a better description than "she consented". She was told what was going to happen by a messenger from a God who already knew how she would respond.Did Mary consent to our salvation? Lk 1:28-38
No. Now if you had asked "Is Mary the mother of Our Salvation?" such that Our Salvation is clearly a title that you have given/applied to Jesus then I would have said "Yes" as she was the mother of Jesus. Now talking about Titles, why are you so determined to shower Mary with titles? Can you tell me what titles are given to her in scripture? Please note that I am asking you to provide titles which are expressly given to her in scripture....things that God, through inspiration had the authors of scripture actually call her. Something like New Ark, New Eve etc. would not qualify as such are never actually applied to her.Is Mary the mother our salvation? Lk 2:30
if only that was the only elevation that is attempted for the mother of Jesus, James, Joseph, Judas and SimonIs that more trying to elevate a woman to some spiritual regality ?
How is it ok for scripture to declare Rachel as the spiritual mother of the children of Israel?Is that more trying to elevate a woman to some spiritual regality ?
If it is, it has failed.
Mary was just serving God, and needs no elevation.
The twelve sons of Jacob had four mothers, and Rachel was only biological mother of two, but Rachel is the “spiritual mother” of the children Israel!
Matt 2: 18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
So Mary can biblically be the spiritual mother of all Christians!
How about queen of heaven! Rev 12:1I would say that "she submitted"...it is a better description than "she consented". She was told what was going to happen by a messenger from a God who already knew how she would respond.
No. Now if you had asked "Is Mary the mother of Our Salvation?" such that Our Salvation is clearly a title that you have given/applied to Jesus then I would have said "Yes" as she was the mother of Jesus. Now talking about Titles, why are you so determined to shower Mary with titles? Can you tell me what titles are given to her in scripture? Please note that I am asking you to provide titles which are expressly given to her in scripture....things that God, through inspiration had the authors of scripture actually call her. Something like New Ark, New Eve etc. would not qualify as such are never actually applied to her.
do you see the word "queen" anywhere in that verse? How about any title being applied to the woman? no, nope and it isn't even clear that the woman represents Mary.....so, is that as close as you can get to God expressly giving Mary a title (in scripture)?How about queen of heaven! Rev 12:1
only a king or queen wear crowns!do you see the word "queen" anywhere in that verse? How about any title being applied to the woman? no, nope and it isn't even clear that the woman represents Mary.....so, is that as close as you can get to God expressly giving Mary a title (in scripture)?
Who is the child?
Psalm 45:9 …upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
Son of David the king: royalty!
Matt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.
Matt 12:23
Matt 15:22
Matt 20:30
Matt 20:31
Matt 21:9-15 etc.
Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
House of David the king:
Lk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Received the kingdom of David:
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Christ is King, Mary must be queen!
Only a queen can bear a king!
A Royal greeting!
Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!
God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!
This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!
In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33 the queen mother sits at His right hand and receives the petitions of the members of the kingdom!
The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!
Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favor with God.
Mary is mother of mercy and the throne of grace!
heb 4:16
In scripture only Jesus and Mary are greeted with: “Hail”! Cos they are the royal King and Queen of heaven!
2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49
Heb 2:7
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands
Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun.
Crown of stars = queen Mary
David the king carried the ark to the earthly Jerusalem.
2 Sam 6:15-16
Jesus the new king carried His ark to the heavenly Jerusalem! Rev 12:1
(Assumption of Mary into heaven and crowned with glory!)
Inaugurating the kingdom!
1 kings 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
ONLY A KING AND A QUEEN SIT ON A THRONE!
Son of David the king: royalty!
Matt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.
Matt 12:23
Matt 15:22
Matt 20:30
Matt 20:31
Matt 21:9-15 etc.
Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
House of David the king:
Lk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Received the kingdom of David:
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Christ is King, Mary must be queen!
Only a queen can bear a king!
A Royal greeting!
Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!
God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!
This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!
In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33 the queen mother sits at His right hand and receives the petitions of the members of the kingdom!
The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!
Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favor with God.
Mary is mother of mercy and the throne of grace!
heb 4:16
In scripture only Jesus and Mary are greeted with: “Hail”! Cos they are the royal King and Queen of heaven!
2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49
Heb 2:7
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands
Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun.
Crown of stars = queen Mary
David the king carried the ark to the earthly Jerusalem.
2 Sam 6:15-16
Jesus the new king carried His ark to the heavenly Jerusalem! Rev 12:1
(Assumption of Mary into heaven and crowned with glory!)
Inaugurating the kingdom!
1 kings 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
ONLY A KING AND A QUEEN SIT ON A THRONE!
From Revelation 17: "They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”Are you really saying Jesus is not king?
See how very easy it is to find scripture that applies the title of King (King of Kings actually) to Jesus? Easy with respect to Jesus and impossible for the titles you want to give to Mary. Doesn't that contrast bother you?....even just a bit?
Now as for the made up title that you have presented in this thread: mother of our salvation. Doesn't that strike you as being odd? ....even just a bit? Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation....wouldn't it be a bit odd for the freed black slaves to have referred to Lincoln's mother as the "mother of our emancipation"?
Is
Jesus king in the line of David?From Revelation 17: "They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
See how very easy it is to find scripture that applies the title of King (King of Kings actually) to Jesus? Easy with respect to Jesus and impossible for the titles you want to give to Mary. Doesn't that contrast bother you?....even just a bit?
Now as for the made up title that you have presented in this thread: mother of our salvation. Doesn't that strike you as being odd? ....even just a bit? Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation....wouldn't it be a bit odd for the freed black slaves to have referred to Lincoln's mother as the "mother of our emancipation"?
the child is understood to be Jesus and the woman has been understood to be 1) the Children of Israel, 2) the Church 3) Mary 4) all of the above. Most scholars today would understand the Children of Israel and/or the Church to be the primary meaning (see Mary in the New Testament )Who is the child?
If the child is Jesus then the woman must be his mother Marythe child is understood to be Jesus and the woman has been understood to be 1) the Children of Israel, 2) the Church 3) Mary 4) all of the above. Most scholars today would understand the Children of Israel and/or the Church to be the primary meaning (see Mary in the New Testament )
Our spiritual mother vs 17
Well with such a simplistic approach to the interpretation of Revelation I guess you would be forced to also believe that Mary was in heaven (whilst pregnant with Jesus) right up until the time she was about to give birth....and here I thought that she and Joseph were travelling from Nazareth in Galilee to Bethlehem in Judea at that exact time. I guess that Luke and I were just wrong. I must admit that the "sun for a dress" thing also troubles me...one would think that everyone on earth would have been burnt up by the intense heat.If the child is Jesus then the woman must be his mother Mary
so the mother is the Queen? ...so which mother are we talking about. Jesus identified his mother whilst Mary was standing outside: Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my....mother. (From Matthew 12)And in the line of David the king, the mother of the king is queen!
Lk 1:32-33 Jesus is in the line of david
....but is case you missed that identification, how about this from Mark 3: “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother...
...and then there is this from Luke 8: He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”