Did Mary consent to our salvation?

[Hopeful 2]

How is it ok for scripture to declare Rachel as the spiritual mother of the children of Israel?
The twelve sons of Jacob had four mothers, and Rachel was only biological mother of two, but Rachel is the “spiritual mother” of the children Israel!

Thanks for giving me one of the reasons NOT to believe Rachel is the mother of ALL of Israel.
Rachel only mothered Benjamin and Joseph.

Matt 2: 18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
So Mary can biblically be the spiritual mother of all Christians!

I guess if only a little over 16% qualifies as ALL of Christianity you would be right.
But it doesn't, so you are wrong.
Christians are reborn of God, without the need for a woman.

 

[donadams]

Well with such a simplistic approach to the interpretation of Revelation I guess you would be forced to also believe that Mary was in heaven (whilst pregnant with Jesus) right up until the time she was about to give birth....and here I thought that she and Joseph were travelling from Nazareth in Galilee to Bethlehem in Judea at that exact time. I guess that Luke and I were just wrong. I must admit that the "sun for a dress" thing also troubles me...one would think that everyone on earth would have been burnt up by the intense heat.

Clothed with grace

 

[donadams]

Most of the book of revelation is figurative

 

[donadams]

so the mother is the Queen? ...so which mother are we talking about. Jesus identified his mother whilst Mary was standing outside: Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my....mother. (From Matthew 12)

....but is case you missed that identification, how about this from Mark 3: “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother...

...and then there is this from Luke 8: He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”

"The knot of Eve's disobedience, says Irenaeus, 'was untied by Mary's obedience, and in her obedience Mary became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race'

Jerome: death thru eve, life thru Mary!

Sacred womb!

Blessed!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Lk 11:28 He replied, “Yes, but even more blessed are all who hear the Word of God and put it into practice.”

Fulfilled in Mary Lk 1:45
For Jesus is not opposing her view but adding to it.

Anything consecrated to God’s service must be immaculate pure and Holy and only for God’s service.

 

[donadams]

Is that more trying to elevate a woman to some spiritual regality ?
If it is, it has failed.
Mary was just serving God, and needs no elevation.

"The knot of Eve's disobedience, says Irenaeus, 'was untied by Mary's obedience, and in her obedience Mary became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race'

Jerome: death thru eve, life thru Mary!

Sacred womb!

Blessed!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Lk 11:28 He replied, “Yes, but even more blessed are all who hear the Word of God and put it into practice.”

Fulfilled in Mary Lk 1:45
For Jesus is not opposing her view but adding to it.

Anything consecrated to God’s service must be immaculate pure and Holy and only for God’s service.

 

[donadams]

Spiritual Mother!

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

A person without a mother is an orphan, Jesus said: I would not have you (Christians) orphan, Jn 19:16 “Behold Thy mother”!



Spiritual Mother!

Mary is our spiritual mother

Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so. There is no requirement to maker her his mother just to take care of her!

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

It must be an Absurd assertion to say Jesus is only asking John (personal name) to care for Mary?

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

If that’s true (and He never says anything about caring for her) then why would the second part be included? Behold Thy son!

The disciple becomes Mary’s son
Mary becomes his mother.

Is Christ asking Mary to care for John?

Jesus is giving all “disciples” a spiritual mother like eve the mother of the living, Gen 3:20 and Rachel is the spiritual mother of the children of Israel in the old covenant, Matt 2:18 Mary is the mother of all those alive in Christ! Mother of divine grace and salvation! Rev 12:17




Jesus said: “I would not have you orphaned”.

Anyone lacking a mother is an orphan.

Jesus gives us two mothers!

Jn 19:26 Behold Thy mother!

Gal 4:26 the new covenant “holy mother church” is also our mother!

All were in Mary!

Mary is the spiritual mother of All those who are born again unto supernatural life of grace!
The seed of Abraham
In Christ and He was in Mary, His mother our mother.


A aperson without a mother is an orphan, Jesus said I will not leave you orphan, behold Thy mother and the true disciples take her into their house. Jn 19:26-28
Scripture has it cursed is the man that angers his mother, rather honor Thy mother is a commandment!

 

[donadams]

Thanks for giving me one of the reasons NOT to believe Rachel is the mother of ALL of Israel.
Rachel only mothered Benjamin and Joseph.

I guess if only a little over 16% qualifies as ALL of Christianity you would be right.
But it doesn't, so you are wrong.
Christians are reborn of God, without the need for a woman.

All graces come thru Mary!
All Christians were in Mary!

 

[donadams]

so the mother is the Queen? ...so which mother are we talking about. Jesus identified his mother whilst Mary was standing outside: Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my....mother. (From Matthew 12)

....but is case you missed that identification, how about this from Mark 3: “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother...

...and then there is this from Luke 8: He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”

Is Christ the king?
Are you a subject of the king?
Do you owe Him obedience?
This also applies to His authorized ministers and what they teach!
Must hear the apostolic church! Matt 5:14 light (truth)
Matt 18:17 Matt 28:19 1 Tim 3:15

 

[Hopeful 2]

"The knot of Eve's disobedience, says Irenaeus, 'was untied by Mary's obedience, and in her obedience Mary became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race'

Jerome: death thru eve, life thru Mary!

Sacred womb!

Blessed!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Lk 11:28 He replied, “Yes, but even more blessed are all who hear the Word of God and put it into practice.”

Fulfilled in Mary Lk 1:45
For Jesus is not opposing her view but adding to it.

As Irenaeus is just another purveyor of false doctrines, his opinion is easy to dismiss.

Anything consecrated to God’s service must be immaculate pure and Holy and only for God’s service.

I agree, and that is probably why God made it possible to live without sinning.
All His children are immaculately pure and consecrated.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Spiritual Mother!

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

A person without a mother is an orphan, Jesus said: I would not have you (Christians) orphan, Jn 19:16 “Behold Thy mother”!



Spiritual Mother!

Mary is our spiritual mother

Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so. There is no requirement to maker her his mother just to take care of her!

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

It must be an Absurd assertion to say Jesus is only asking John (personal name) to care for Mary?

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

If that’s true (and He never says anything about caring for her) then why would the second part be included? Behold Thy son!

The disciple becomes Mary’s son
Mary becomes his mother.

Is Christ asking Mary to care for John?

Jesus is giving all “disciples” a spiritual mother like eve the mother of the living, Gen 3:20 and Rachel is the spiritual mother of the children of Israel in the old covenant, Matt 2:18 Mary is the mother of all those alive in Christ! Mother of divine grace and salvation! Rev 12:17




Jesus said: “I would not have you orphaned”.

Anyone lacking a mother is an orphan.

Jesus gives us two mothers!

Jn 19:26 Behold Thy mother!

Gal 4:26 the new covenant “holy mother church” is also our mother!

All were in Mary!

Mary is the spiritual mother of All those who are born again unto supernatural life of grace!
The seed of Abraham
In Christ and He was in Mary, His mother our mother.


A aperson without a mother is an orphan, Jesus said I will not leave you orphan, behold Thy mother and the true disciples take her into their house. Jn 19:26-28
Scripture has it cursed is the man that angers his mother, rather honor Thy mother is a commandment!

Idolatry.

 

[Hopeful 2]

All graces come thru Mary!
All Christians were in Mary!

That is not true.
Christians are reborn of God's seed, and have nothing at all to do with Mary.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Is Christ the king?
Are you a subject of the king?
Do you owe Him obedience?
This also applies to His authorized ministers and what they teach!
Must hear the apostolic church! Matt 5:14 light (truth)
Matt 18:17 Matt 28:19 1 Tim 3:15

If the catholics are "subject to the King", why are there confessionals in every catholic church ?

 

[donadams]

As Irenaeus is just another purveyor of false doctrines, his opinion is easy to dismiss.

I agree, and that is probably why God made it possible to live without sinning.
All His children are immaculately pure and consecrated.

Only the faithful rev 17:14

 

[donadams]

Idolatry.

Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; Eph 6:2

No creature has ever had a family relationship with God except Mary:

And She has three:

Daughter of the eternal Father.
Mother of the Son of God.
Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

The living ark of the new covenant!
The spiritual mother of those living in Christ!

Song of Solomon 6:9-10
9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?

Mary is our spiritual mother cos She found our salvation Lk 1:30 and consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
And Rev 12:17

Cos we are the brethren of the Lord, and have the mother as He does.

Cos Jesus Christ explicitly gave the disciples His mother. Jn 19:26-28

No one ever had a family relationship with God, except Mary who has three, daughter of the Eternal Father, mother of the Son, spouse of the Holy Spirit but not special - unique?

Daughter of Zion 2 kings 19:21 psalm 9:14 rev 21:2 Zech 9:9
Mother of Son Matt 2:11
Spouse of the Holy Spirit Matt 1:20 Lk 1:35

 

[Hopeful 2]

Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; Eph 6:2

No creature has ever had a family relationship with God except Mary:

And She has three:

Daughter of the eternal Father.
Mother of the Son of God.
Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

The living ark of the new covenant!
The spiritual mother of those living in Christ!

Song of Solomon 6:9-10
9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?

Mary is our spiritual mother cos She found our salvation Lk 1:30 and consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
And Rev 12:17

Cos we are the brethren of the Lord, and have the mother as He does.

Cos Jesus Christ explicitly gave the disciples His mother. Jn 19:26-28

No one ever had a family relationship with God, except Mary who has three, daughter of the Eternal Father, mother of the Son, spouse of the Holy Spirit but not special - unique?

Daughter of Zion 2 kings 19:21 psalm 9:14 rev 21:2 Zech 9:9
Mother of Son Matt 2:11
Spouse of the Holy Spirit Matt 1:20 Lk 1:35

Do you have a statue of your mom at home ?

 

[donadams]

Idolatry.

No creature has ever had a family relationship with God except Mary:

And She has three:

Daughter of the eternal Father.
Mother of the Son of God.
Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

The living ark of the new covenant!
The spiritual mother of those living in Christ!

Song of Solomon 6:9-10
9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?

Mary is our spiritual mother cos She found our salvation Lk 1:30 and consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
And Rev 12:17

Cos we are the brethren of the Lord, and have the mother as He does.

Cos Jesus Christ explicitly gave the disciples His mother. Jn 19:26-28

No one ever had a family relationship with God, except Mary who has three, daughter of the Eternal Father, mother of the Son, spouse of the Holy Spirit but not special - unique?

Daughter of Zion 2 kings 19:21 psalm 9:14 rev 21:2 Zech 9:9
Mother of Son Matt 2:11
Spouse of the Holy Spirit Matt 1:20 Lk 1:35

 

[donadams]

The Dove, & rainbow signs of peace are types of Mary mother of our salvation who obtained peace for all men!

Song of Solomon 1:2
Smelling sweet of the best ointments. Thy name is as oil poured out: therefore young maidens have loved thee.
Oil heals and fuels the flame, and is the fruit of the olive (peace) so the name of Mary is our peace, and healing, and fire of divine love!

But to heretics enemies of Christ it burns, and is bitter!

Proverbs 8:35
He that shall find me, shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord:

Lk 1:45 all generations shall call me blessed!

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having obtain thier eternal salvation!

Mary and all the saints grace, virtues, and merits are from God’s infinite goodness mercy and love and they end in the God glory!

All is a gift of God!
All begins in God:
All is maintained by God:
All ends in God:

all honor, glory, and thanksgiving are unto God!

Lk 1:49 He that is almighty has done great things to me!

Blessed be God, forever and ever!

 

[donadams]

That is not true.
Christians are reborn of God's seed, and have nothing at all to do with Mary.

Jn 1:16-17
Christ is the source of all grace!
We were in Christ!
Christ came thru Mary so all grace comes thru her!

 

[donadams]

Do you have a statue of your mom at home ?

Do you have a statue of your mom at home ?

Why are statues somehow forbidden?

 

[donadams]

If the catholics are "subject to the King", why are there confessionals in every catholic church ?

I’m not sure I comprehend your finding a disconnect here?