Did Mary consent to our salvation?

[donadams]

Lk 1:32-33 has NO mention of any queens or Mary. Only discusses God and Jesus. So please don't try to Catholicize that verse.
1 Kings doesn't support your cause, either.

There is ZERO EVIDENCE of Mary having a throne in Heb 4:16. Or ANYWHERE. God has a Throne, though. Read Hebrew 4:15-17 for context. Hint: there is no evidence of Mary ANYWHERE in those verses.
your "mary throne" is eigesis.

no. Luke 1:28 "And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”"
Grace is not mentioned here, not in NASB, anyways.

Just because someone is blessed does not make them a queen. Catholics exaggerate her blessing.

The meek are blessed too, but I don't see catholics praying to meek people. I don't see them teach exaggerated blessings of the meek.


May God bless and forgive you,
KV44

Queen Esther & Queen Mary!


Old Testament type or example provided by God for our instruction!

Queen Esther

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
Song of S. 4:2 love of God for Mary!
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5

 

[donadams]

Wh

Rabbit trails and non sequiturs!

Mary is not a god or the God.

Who said she was?

You violating the eighth commandment

 

[donadams]

You are trying to lead me into talking about Rachel. I said nothing about her originally.

"Jesus does not make her the mother of the disciples he only declares it!"
He doesn't declare Mary to be anything in those verses.

Also, the Bible does not say WHO the woman is in Rev 12:17. For all we know it could be Jael or.... wait for it.... RACHEL!! Assuming it is Mary is an assumption.

Oh, and Cath's have a "Mary assumption". Accurate, it is assumption not fact!

And crowning by the holy trinity!

Who is the child in rev 12?

Do you agree Rachel is spiritual mother of the children of Israel?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Do you pray the rosary or are you above such things as meditation on the passion and death of the savior?

Clarify?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Wh

Who said she was?

You violating the eighth commandment

Can you explain how?? Who am i allegedly stealing from??

 

[KV-44-v1]

And crowning by the holy trinity!

Who is the child in rev 12?

Do you agree Rachel is spiritual mother of the children of Israel?

I don't know why you are making a big deal out of whether Rachel is or not. Whether she is or isn't doesn't counter the FACT that Mary is dead until she gets resurrected and has her choice (Jesus or sin) fulfilled.

 

[KV-44-v1]

(Except fundamentalist heretics)

Huh?? How are fundamentalists heretics? Define "fundamentalist" and "heretics".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then Jesus isn't God?

Jesus was the Word made flesh.
It as the Word that was God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So it was OK to place a crucifix in urine?

Why wouldn't it be OK ?
It is just a piece of wood, or metal.
If you feel the need to dispense some kind of holiness to a piece of wood or metal, that is idolatry.

 

[KV-44-v1]

H

Queen Mary
Psalm 45

Not idolatry cos an idol must represent a god, Mary is not God and is not representing a god!

Psalm 45:2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Psalm45:3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.

5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Psalm 45:9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;

11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.

12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.

13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold. Rev 12:1

14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.

15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.

16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.

17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

Lk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Lk 1: 48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

(Except fundamentalist heretics)

None of this gives any warrant to exaggerating Mary's blessing up to Catholic levels.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Queen Esther & Queen Mary!


Old Testament type or example provided by God for our instruction!

Queen Esther

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
Song of S. 4:2 love of God for Mary!
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5

There is no evidence Mary is queen of anything.
WHO prayed to Esther? Even if "they" did, that would be idolatry.

 

[Hopeful 2]

To teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Sanctification would include freedom from sinning, so our answers agree.

With real baptism not a phony spirit baptism, but baptism in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit!

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is indeed real.
But so is the gift of the Holy Ghost/Spirit baptism.

John prepared the way by water baptism of repentance
Mk 16;16 faith and water baptism
Matt 28:19 faith and water baptism

Yep.

The apostolic church founded by Christ and commanded to teach includes our duty to believe and obey!

Agreed: the Church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21) was founded on the fact of Jesus being the Son of God and our futy being to walk as He walked.

Spiritual anarchy:
Accept the king but reject his kingdom, reject His revealed truth, and His authorized ministers, do they really accept the king?

Nope.
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46)

Rejection of the kingdom, reject His revealed truth, and rejection of His authorized ministers is rejection of the king!
2 Timothy 2:12 …if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Yep.

Spiritual blindness and bondage!
Jn 8:32 you shall know the truth!
False doctrine and error causes spiritual blindness and bondage!

...and the truth shall make you free...of committing sin. (John 8:32-34)

The example of saul:
He thought he was doing the will of God and acting righteously until the blinding light of the risen Lord appeared!
Thick black scales!
Are named as: monsterous pride, presumption, and arrogance!
Pride always protests!
Unthinkable to a Christian who practices the virtues of Jesus Christ, humility, meekness, and obedience!

Yep.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Dare I ask how?

By a real, true, permanent repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
This will not only provide the remission all men require, but also provide for the destruction of your old man with its vile affections and lusts.
Rebirth then occurs.
A new creature, with a divine nature, and with the gift of the Holy Ghost, will take the place of what was once only worthy of death.

Without the repentance, none of the other things happen.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The beads no, it’s only a means of keeping track, it’s not required
To do so on the crucifix would be to reject Christ

You have equated Christ Jesus with a piece of metal or wood.
That is idolatry.

Do you pray the rosary or are you above such things as meditation on the passion and death of the savior?

When I left the false church and became a Christian, I threw my rosary in the dumpster.
Having the Spirit of God within me makes idols unnecessary.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You don’t understand, images are not forbidden, the heresy opposing images is condemned

If you can spit on it, it is not a forbidden idol.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus was the Word made flesh.
It as the Word that was God.

No Hopeful...
This was the question...
Was Jesus God?

If yes, Mary was His mother.

If no, then you're right.

 

[GodsGrace]

You have equated Christ Jesus with a piece of metal or wood.
That is idolatry.

When I left the false church and became a Christian, I threw my rosary in the dumpster.
Having the Spirit of God within me makes idols unnecessary.

You threw JESUS and His mother in a dumpster?

It's great that you never sin...
God must have been very happy with that action.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why wouldn't it be OK ?
It is just a piece of wood, or metal.
If you feel the need to dispense some kind of holiness to a piece of wood or metal, that is idolatry.

So if someone put a pix of you in a jar full of urine and left it on the steps of your family, that would be acceptable behavior to you?

No wonder the world is going crazy.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No Hopeful...
This was the question...
Was Jesus God?

If yes, Mary was His mother.

If no, then you're right.

Jesus was the Word.
Mary was Jesus' mother, so the Word could put on the flesh.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You threw JESUS and His mother in a dumpster?

No, I threw metal and beads in the dumpster.
Metal and beads are not Jesus or Mary.
I also tossed all my pot smoking gear, and all my ash trays in that dumpster.

It's great that you never sin...
God must have been very happy with that action.

I am sure He was, as I had carried that rosary through many years of idolatry.