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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study Die And Go To Heaven
- Thread starter Angel
- Start date
Yes, it is.When we die our souls go immediately to heaven if we are a believer or hades if we are not a believer.The souls do not remain in the grave and souls do not get lost and wonder about on the earth.
Chopper
Member
2 Corinthians 5:6-9 answers your question. Paul writes to the Corinthians that we have two dwelling places. At home in our bodies or at home with the Lord. When this old body dies and goes back to the ground, my spirit goes immediately into the presence of Jesus. If you read in 2 Cor. 5:1-10 is the whole context. There has been a lot of speculation about what kind of a body we will have when we go into the presence of Jesus. It is my opinion that we will have some kind of spiritual body so that we can function, and greet those who have gone before us. It will be great to meet Paul, Moses, and all the Scripture individuals that we read about in the Word of God.
I hope this answers your question, if not? Ask away, I'll try and answer this most important question of yours.
Love in the Lord, Chopper
Chopper
Member
What TOG said is not the opinion of a great number of theologians. It is something to consider though, in light of some Scripture. When I compare the different opinions of the "soul sleep" and those who believe that absent from the body is present with the Lord, I lean toward the latter. TOG is no dummy, and has Scripture based convictions. Perhaps he would like to give us some of his Scriptures so that we can consider both sides.
Are you Seven-Day Adventist?That religion believes in soul sleep.
When the Bible speaks of sleeping it does not mean literal sleep.Sleeping is just a way to describe death.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Jesus did not say "You will lay in the ground until later".
Philippians 1:23 For[a] I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.
Paul said he would depart and be with Christ.That means immediately not later.
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Deborah13
Member
I agree with you Kathi. I believe it just means dead.
There are actually many people who are not of any particular denomination that believe we do sleep until the Lord returns.
It is not Biblical.
TOG
Member
No, but I did first hear about soul sleep many years ago from an acquaintance of mine who was an Adventist. I rejected the idea at first, but the scriptures he quoted were very convincing, and I eventually came around to his way of thinking.
The Bible does often use the word "sleep" to refer to death, and I think that supports the doctrine of soul sleep, not because of the word itself, but because of the meaning. There are many euphemisms for death that we are more familiar with today than "sleep", such as "kick the bucket", "(to be) 6 feet under", "pushing up daisies", "gone to meet his/her maker" and many others. Some may seem to make more sense than others, but none of them are completely illogical. They all refer to some aspect of death or belief about death. The euphemisms "6 feet under" and "pushing up daisies" both refer to the physical location of the body after burial, while "meet his/her maker" refers to being judged by God after death. There are a number of theories about the origin of "kick the bucket", but they all have something to do either with the method of death (kicking a bucket out from under a man being hanged) or with funeral customs (placing a bucket of holy water at the feet of a corpse). The term "sleep", when used as a euphemism for death also has a certain logic behind it. I believe it refers to the belief that a person's soul sleeps until judgment day.
Thank you for the compliment. There are mainly two reasons why I believe that we sleep after death. The first is that there are a number of Bible passages that seem to indicate a lack of consciousness after death.
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? (Ps. 6:5 KJV)
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness (Ps. 88:10-12 KJV)
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. (Is. 3:18 KJV)
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness (Ps. 88:10-12 KJV)
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. (Is. 3:18 KJV)
The other main reason I believe as I do is my understanding of what Heaven is. The word "heaven" is sometimes used in the Bible as a euphemism for "God".
And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! (Luke 18:24 KJV)
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 19:23 KJV)
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 19:23 KJV)
I see "Heaven" as a shortened form of "Kingdom of Heaven", at least in some cases. Jesus said that the Kingdom of Heaven was among us, not in some unknown far-away place or in another dimension. The Kingdom of God (i.e. Heaven) is here on earth. Of course "heaven" isn't always a euphemism. Sometimes it refers to the sky (where the birds are), sometimes it refers to space (where the stars are) and sometimes it refers to the spiritual realm (Where God is). But when it comes to our final destination, I believe it refers to the Kingdom of God here on earth. That Kingdom is already here, but only partly. When Jesus returns, God's Kingdom will be established on earth in all it's fulness. If that is the correct understanding, then Heaven as our final destination doesn't even exist yet, so how can it be that millions of people have already gone there?
I know there are verses that support the opposing view (that we go to Heaven immediately). I will address those verses later, as this post is long enough already.
The TOG
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 is used by many to say when we die we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven, but these verses do not mean that at all. If you go back to verse one and two in chapter 5 the tabernacle being spoken of is our fleshly body and when we are in the flesh we are separated from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Romans 8:6, 7, and God can not see our flesh, John 9:31. Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth – born again Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.
John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. When we are in the flesh or at home in the body this is our natural carnal being that God can not see because of the sin nature in us. When we are in the Spirit allowing Gods Spirit to take over the flesh then we are in the presence of the Lord through the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.
God breathed life into us and when this flesh body dies that spirit of life that was breathed in us will go back to God, Ecclesiastics 12:7, and this flesh body will return to the dust of the ground from where it came from until we are resurrected when Jesus comes to take us into the clouds, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, which is the first heaven that is atmosphere where we will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:52.
(Note: there are three heavens)
First heaven is the firmament, Earths Atmosphere, which is the immediate sky, Genesis 2:19; 7:3, 23; Psalms 8:8; Lamentations 4:19. The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit, Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.
Nowhere in the Bible does it state what we will actually look like when we return with Jesus when he plants His feet on the Mount of Olives and fights the final battle as described in Zechariah chapter 4, except that we will be conformed to His glorious body, Philippians 3:21; 1Corinthians 15:43; 1John 3:2. After this final siege of Jerusalem is won by Christ forever then the new heaven and new earth will be ushered in as the old heaven and earth will pass away.
The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God. Only those who have faith in Christ are those who are spiritually alive while those with unbelief in Christ are spiritually dead, 1Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26; Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13.
The spirit that is in man is either the spirit that connects with God or connects with the principalities of this world, the ruler of wickedness in dark places. Just because a person lives a good life, helps others and seems to be an all around good person whether they are alive or dead when Christ returns will be resurrected unto damnation if they are not renewed by the Spirit of God through His grace for their remissions of sin.
Now is the time for repentance as Matthew 24:36 says that no one knows when Jesus will return, not even himself or the angels, but God alone knows when. It could be in our lifetime, but if not one must also be prepared before the grave.
(John 5:22-30; Rev 14:14-20 20:11-15)
John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. When we are in the flesh or at home in the body this is our natural carnal being that God can not see because of the sin nature in us. When we are in the Spirit allowing Gods Spirit to take over the flesh then we are in the presence of the Lord through the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.
God breathed life into us and when this flesh body dies that spirit of life that was breathed in us will go back to God, Ecclesiastics 12:7, and this flesh body will return to the dust of the ground from where it came from until we are resurrected when Jesus comes to take us into the clouds, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, which is the first heaven that is atmosphere where we will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:52.
(Note: there are three heavens)
First heaven is the firmament, Earths Atmosphere, which is the immediate sky, Genesis 2:19; 7:3, 23; Psalms 8:8; Lamentations 4:19. The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit, Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.
Nowhere in the Bible does it state what we will actually look like when we return with Jesus when he plants His feet on the Mount of Olives and fights the final battle as described in Zechariah chapter 4, except that we will be conformed to His glorious body, Philippians 3:21; 1Corinthians 15:43; 1John 3:2. After this final siege of Jerusalem is won by Christ forever then the new heaven and new earth will be ushered in as the old heaven and earth will pass away.
The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God. Only those who have faith in Christ are those who are spiritually alive while those with unbelief in Christ are spiritually dead, 1Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26; Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13.
The spirit that is in man is either the spirit that connects with God or connects with the principalities of this world, the ruler of wickedness in dark places. Just because a person lives a good life, helps others and seems to be an all around good person whether they are alive or dead when Christ returns will be resurrected unto damnation if they are not renewed by the Spirit of God through His grace for their remissions of sin.
Now is the time for repentance as Matthew 24:36 says that no one knows when Jesus will return, not even himself or the angels, but God alone knows when. It could be in our lifetime, but if not one must also be prepared before the grave.
(John 5:22-30; Rev 14:14-20 20:11-15)
Deborah13
Member
So where is the soul?
Chopper
Member
Thank you TOG for your insightful response. I appreciate a response that doesn't shoot someone down. Today, I read in Isaiah 66:2 "This is the one to whom I will look; he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at My Word." l wish that everyone who uses this Forum would operate with this verse in mind.
Has anyone considered that our body remains in the grave, but as believers our spirits are present with the Lord?
If not go dig up your Christian grand-ma and see if some remains are present there, and then notice for evidence of the spirit remaining. What? she sure looks asleep to me.
Now if you hear the words: I am tormented in this flame, you might want to reconsider whether she really was a Christian, and most of all what is wrong with me for digging her up?
If not go dig up your Christian grand-ma and see if some remains are present there, and then notice for evidence of the spirit remaining. What? she sure looks asleep to me.
Now if you hear the words: I am tormented in this flame, you might want to reconsider whether she really was a Christian, and most of all what is wrong with me for digging her up?
Chopper
Member
Has anyone considered that our body remains in the grave, but as believers our spirits are present with the Lord?
If not go dig up your Christian grand-ma and see if some remains are present there, and then notice for evidence of the spirit remaining. What? she sure looks asleep to me.
Now if you hear the words: I am tormented in this flame, you might want to reconsider whether she really was a Christian, and most of all what is wrong with me for digging her up?
Ha, Ha, good one. Are you going to join Reba, me and some others in our new Bible study in Deuteronomy?
Deborah13
Member
That is what I believe.
If not go dig up your Christian grand-ma and see if some remains are present there, and then notice for evidence of the spirit remaining. What? she sure looks asleep to me.
Now if you hear the words: I am tormented in this flame, you might want to reconsider whether she really was a Christian, and most of all what is wrong with me for digging her up?
I Don't believe we should be digging up grandma....:shock
Yes,Eugene our bodies do remain in the grave.If you would go dig up grandma or grandpa you would see some bones and that is about all.The soul goes to immediately to heaven or hades.But those bodies will someday be resurrected and be a resurrected body.It does not matter if someone was cremated,lost at sea or a heap of bones in a grave.Has anyone considered that our body remains in the grave, but as believers our spirits are present with the Lord?
If not go dig up your Christian grand-ma and see if some remains are present there, and then notice for evidence of the spirit remaining. What? she sure looks asleep to me.
Now if you hear the words: I am tormented in this flame, you might want to reconsider whether she really was a Christian, and most of all what is wrong with me for digging her up?
Brother Chopper, I'll not commit myself, but I would like to read along without comment most of the time.